Why the A303 will probably never become a motorway and won't be fully dualled for a long time
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- Cryoraptor
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Why the A303 will probably never become a motorway and won't be fully dualled for a long time
While me and many, many others want the A303 to be upgraded to a new motorway or at the very least dualled throughout it's length, I don't see it happening anytime soon. There are two main reasons which both interlink with one another to an extent.
1. The kind of places the route visits: While the large sections of dual carriageway that already exist and some of the other remaining S2 sections would in theory be able to be upgraded to full motorway, the A303 visits many villages and of course, Stonehenge. This makes it very hard to upgrade in these sections and adds to,
2. The cost: If we want to motorway or even dual the length of the A303, we're arguing for either a good chunk of villages to be ripped up, or we're arguing for the construction of an entirely new road, which could also involve ripping up good chunks of private land. Both of these options aren't cheap. Considering how much traffic the A303 holds, logic says that if upgrading to motorway was on a same level of difficulty as other major routes, it would have been completed by now. Yet it hasn't for these reasons.
The A303 is an expensive road to upgrade and will continue to be expensive. It's one of those things where everyone knows it's a problem and needs to be done, but nobody is willing to do it. Everyone wants a glorious Basingstoke-Exeter M30, but nobody wants to spend the money required to build it. If a tunnel that goes under Stonehenge is repeatedly kicked further down the road, good luck building a motorway anywhere near it. It's likely that the initial dual carriageway section which is the best part of the A303 would have to go to waste for an entirely new course to be taken that avoids Stonehenge like the plague. At least with dualling, most or all of it is kept.
The most realistic motorway-related upgrade to the A303 I can expect at this point is a D2M/D3M A303(M)/M303 upgrade from the M3 to Stonehenge which would cause even more congestion-related problems in the long run, meaning it probably wouldn't be built unless the entire length to Exeter was becoming a motorway. Stonehenge is a notorious bottleneck on the network that is going to be extremely hard to fix whatever the chosen solution becomes.
As a side note, perhaps one of the main benefits I see of a motorway upgrade or at least a full dualling would be to relieve the M4 of some of it's traffic as some people chose the M4-M5 route over the A303 because of the congestion problems, unwittingly causing even more problems for themselves by using a cramped M4.
In short, the A303 isn't becoming the M30 anytime soon. If it were that easy, it would have happened by now, or at least we'd have an A303(M) in a similar fashion to the A1(M).
Note: For all intents and purposes, A303 in this post also includes the A30 stretch from Honiton to Exeter.
1. The kind of places the route visits: While the large sections of dual carriageway that already exist and some of the other remaining S2 sections would in theory be able to be upgraded to full motorway, the A303 visits many villages and of course, Stonehenge. This makes it very hard to upgrade in these sections and adds to,
2. The cost: If we want to motorway or even dual the length of the A303, we're arguing for either a good chunk of villages to be ripped up, or we're arguing for the construction of an entirely new road, which could also involve ripping up good chunks of private land. Both of these options aren't cheap. Considering how much traffic the A303 holds, logic says that if upgrading to motorway was on a same level of difficulty as other major routes, it would have been completed by now. Yet it hasn't for these reasons.
The A303 is an expensive road to upgrade and will continue to be expensive. It's one of those things where everyone knows it's a problem and needs to be done, but nobody is willing to do it. Everyone wants a glorious Basingstoke-Exeter M30, but nobody wants to spend the money required to build it. If a tunnel that goes under Stonehenge is repeatedly kicked further down the road, good luck building a motorway anywhere near it. It's likely that the initial dual carriageway section which is the best part of the A303 would have to go to waste for an entirely new course to be taken that avoids Stonehenge like the plague. At least with dualling, most or all of it is kept.
The most realistic motorway-related upgrade to the A303 I can expect at this point is a D2M/D3M A303(M)/M303 upgrade from the M3 to Stonehenge which would cause even more congestion-related problems in the long run, meaning it probably wouldn't be built unless the entire length to Exeter was becoming a motorway. Stonehenge is a notorious bottleneck on the network that is going to be extremely hard to fix whatever the chosen solution becomes.
As a side note, perhaps one of the main benefits I see of a motorway upgrade or at least a full dualling would be to relieve the M4 of some of it's traffic as some people chose the M4-M5 route over the A303 because of the congestion problems, unwittingly causing even more problems for themselves by using a cramped M4.
In short, the A303 isn't becoming the M30 anytime soon. If it were that easy, it would have happened by now, or at least we'd have an A303(M) in a similar fashion to the A1(M).
Note: For all intents and purposes, A303 in this post also includes the A30 stretch from Honiton to Exeter.
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A303/A30 > M4-M5
A303/A30 > M4-M5
Re: Why the A303 will probably never become a motorway and won't be fully dualled for a long time
The A303 is usually busy only during the warmer holiday periods.
When I drove from Ipswich to see my family in Somerset, I used the A303 and didn't encounter any holdups. This was on the Saturday before the February half-term.
In short, there's simply not the traffic to justify a full Motorway.
When I drove from Ipswich to see my family in Somerset, I used the A303 and didn't encounter any holdups. This was on the Saturday before the February half-term.
In short, there's simply not the traffic to justify a full Motorway.
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Re: Why the A303 will probably never become a motorway and won't be fully dualled for a long time
No one is demanding an upgrade to motorway status for the A303.
Your assertion that the A303 ‘visits lots of villages’ is not factually correct. I can only think of Winterbourne Stoke, Chicklade and a couple of hamlets near Sparkford and on the Ilminster-Honiton section.
Furthermore, aside from the Blackdown Hills, the financial and environmental cost of upgrading isn’t that much as land is plentiful and sparsely populated, again your assertion doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.
Devon CC are planning a local upgrade of the A30 on the SC section.
Hopefully, the Stonehenge and Sparkford projects will get the green light in a matter of weeks and the A358 project will pass DCO examination in the next year or so. Leaving just the short S2 section past Wylye and the Chicklade section to be improved (planned for RIS3 I believe).
So yes, a motorway upgrade will never happen, but a full dualling is possible within the next 10 years.
That said, I will continue to use the A303/30 over the Blackdowns to get to Exeter. The opportunity was there to dual the Blackdowns section back in 1997 - green light given in the dying days of the Major government, canned by Labour later that year, multi modal study recommended its construction, but binned again in the mid -00s in favour of the A358. It’ll never happen now as the environmental backlash would be costly.
Your assertion that the A303 ‘visits lots of villages’ is not factually correct. I can only think of Winterbourne Stoke, Chicklade and a couple of hamlets near Sparkford and on the Ilminster-Honiton section.
Furthermore, aside from the Blackdown Hills, the financial and environmental cost of upgrading isn’t that much as land is plentiful and sparsely populated, again your assertion doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.
Devon CC are planning a local upgrade of the A30 on the SC section.
Hopefully, the Stonehenge and Sparkford projects will get the green light in a matter of weeks and the A358 project will pass DCO examination in the next year or so. Leaving just the short S2 section past Wylye and the Chicklade section to be improved (planned for RIS3 I believe).
So yes, a motorway upgrade will never happen, but a full dualling is possible within the next 10 years.
That said, I will continue to use the A303/30 over the Blackdowns to get to Exeter. The opportunity was there to dual the Blackdowns section back in 1997 - green light given in the dying days of the Major government, canned by Labour later that year, multi modal study recommended its construction, but binned again in the mid -00s in favour of the A358. It’ll never happen now as the environmental backlash would be costly.
Formerly ‘guvvaA303’
Re: Why the A303 will probably never become a motorway and won't be fully dualled for a long time
I don't think that's right.Jack wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 00:141. The kind of places the route visits: While the large sections of dual carriageway that already exist and some of the other remaining S2 sections would in theory be able to be upgraded to full motorway, the A303 visits many villages and of course, Stonehenge. This makes it very hard to upgrade in these sections and adds to...
The only village on the A303 between the M3 and M5 is Winterbourne Stoke. There are a couple of other small hamlets with houses facing on to the A303, but bypassing those as part of a dualling scheme is trivial.
At Stonehenge, the proposed tunnel has funding lined up and is awaiting a decision from the Planning Inspectorate, which is due within the next month. It's highly unlikely it will be halted at this stage, so it's now extremely likely that the A303 will bypass both Stonehenge and Winterbourne Stoke as a continuous expressway within the next ten years - in fact a start of work is pencilled in for 2021 which would see it open to traffic even sooner than that. It's even conceivable, though not a given, that Highways England will apply for motorway regulations as part of their slightly faltering Expressways policy, which means Wiltshire could even gain a section of A303(M). (I wouldn't put money on it, though.)
Highways England have a programme of works to complete dualling the A303/A358 route to the M5 at Taunton, with several schemes in the current road investment period and more to follow from 2025-2030.
There's a very decent chance, then, that the A303 actually will become a continuous dual carriageway from the M3 to the M5 within the next ten years.
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
Re: Why the A303 will probably never become a motorway and won't be fully dualled for a long time
Will they formally re-route the A303 along the A358?
Re: Why the A303 will probably never become a motorway and won't be fully dualled for a long time
Lets hope not ! The additional traffic would overwhelm Jn26 M5 at Taunton. It's bad now especially with the local council allowing all manner of retail developments nearby.
Re: Why the A303 will probably never become a motorway and won't be fully dualled for a long time
It would be tidier, but I doubt it.
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
Re: Why the A303 will probably never become a motorway and won't be fully dualled for a long time
If you've not seen the Preferred Route Announcement for the A358 already, you may not like this...
Re: Why the A303 will probably never become a motorway and won't be fully dualled for a long time
So, the new A358 bypasses the Park'n'Ride traffic lights but, has access to the Nexus 25 development which will mean...a horribly complicated signalled junction...or 2 perhaps. I don't see how J25 can be improved any more. It is already messed up signalled. The queues will be the same as at present. If the old route is accessible, I will use that, along with the locals.
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- Cryoraptor
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Re: Why the A303 will probably never become a motorway and won't be fully dualled for a long time
Am I the only one who thinks the A358 is a massive detour from the main route? What is the reasoning for choosing the A358 to be upgraded as opposed to the Honiton-Exeter section of the A30 which is part of the main route into Devon and Cornwall?
Also, could a future number swap between the A303 and A30 be possible considering that the current A303 is the far more important route than the relatively local A30 before Honiton?
Also, could a future number swap between the A303 and A30 be possible considering that the current A303 is the far more important route than the relatively local A30 before Honiton?
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Re: Why the A303 will probably never become a motorway and won't be fully dualled for a long time
No, you’re not the only one. See my post above: the dualling through the Blackdowns was rejected over 10 years ago. The A358 option is cheaper and by an order of magnitude less damaging to the environment. Even cheaper now that HE have decided to plug it into a roundabout at both endsJack wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 13:17 Am I the only one who thinks the A358 is a massive detour from the main route? What is the reasoning for choosing the A358 to be upgraded as opposed to the Honiton-Exeter section of the A30 which is part of the main route into Devon and Cornwall?
Also, could a future number swap between the A303 and A30 be possible considering that the current A303 is the far more important route than the relatively local A30 before Honiton?
The A358 does also serve as a regional N-S route so will improve connectivity from Yeovil and east Dorset to the M5 and Bristol.
A number swap for the remaining unimproved A303 has been discussed before, certainly I’d envisage a downgrade to non-primary status.
The A30 between Honiton and Exeter was in the planning pool for 25 years, finally open in 1999. At the time of construction, further upgrades to the A30/303 east of Honiton, and A35 towards Dorchester were also in preparation (A35 Honiton eastern bypass and Chideock-Morecambelake).
A shame they were cancelled, but at least we do have the lovely Honiton - Exeter stretch.
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Re: Why the A303 will probably never become a motorway and won't be fully dualled for a long time
Minor point of order, the Planning Inspectorate have made their recommendation (way back in January), the decision to proceed now rests with the Secretary of State, Mr Shapps.
I’m not 100% convinced it will go ahead. Before Covid, yes. But it’s going to be a tough sell to the public given the price tag.
However - as you say - funding is agreed, and Boris has declared his intentions to invest in infrastructure and specifically the A303 so I’d be quietly confident. Maybe 85% confident.
It’s the closest the project has ever come to construction, and should it proceed then it’s a 40-year old problem “solved”.
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- Cryoraptor
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Re: Why the A303 will probably never become a motorway and won't be fully dualled for a long time
I guess so. Unfortunately environmental concerns are a major factor nowadays regardless of how appreciated a new bypass from the end of the last A303 dual carriageway to the current Honiton bypass would be. I imagine it will probably be one of the last if not the last section to receive an upgrade before the whole length between the M3 and M5 is full dual carriageway. Once that happens, I'd support the current A303 swapping numbers with the existing Basingstoke-Upottery A30, whereby the current relatively unimportant non-primary section of A30 becomes the new A303, and the current A303 becomes part of the A30.A320Driver wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 13:29No, you’re not the only one. See my post above: the dualling through the Blackdowns was rejected over 10 years ago. The A358 option is cheaper and by an order of magnitude less damaging to the environment. Even cheaper now that HE have decided to plug it into a roundabout at both endsJack wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 13:17 Am I the only one who thinks the A358 is a massive detour from the main route? What is the reasoning for choosing the A358 to be upgraded as opposed to the Honiton-Exeter section of the A30 which is part of the main route into Devon and Cornwall?
Also, could a future number swap between the A303 and A30 be possible considering that the current A303 is the far more important route than the relatively local A30 before Honiton?
The A358 does also serve as a regional N-S route so will improve connectivity from Yeovil and east Dorset to the M5 and Bristol.
A number swap for the remaining unimproved A303 has been discussed before, certainly I’d envisage a downgrade to non-primary status.
The A30 between Honiton and Exeter was in the planning pool for 25 years, finally open in 1999. At the time of construction, further upgrades to the A30/303 east of Honiton, and A35 towards Dorchester were also in preparation (A35 Honiton eastern bypass and Chideock-Morecambelake).
A shame they were cancelled, but at least we do have the lovely Honiton - Exeter stretch.
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- Cryoraptor
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Re: Why the A303 will probably never become a motorway and won't be fully dualled for a long time
I wouldn't be surprised if COVID-19 delays anything related to the A303/A30, especially Stonehenge-related, for at least a few years.A320Driver wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 13:34Minor point of order, the Planning Inspectorate have made their recommendation (way back in January), the decision to proceed now rests with the Secretary of State, Mr Shapps.
I’m not 100% convinced it will go ahead. Before Covid, yes. But it’s going to be a tough sell to the public given the price tag.
However - as you say - funding is agreed, and Boris has declared his intentions to invest in infrastructure and specifically the A303 so I’d be quietly confident. Maybe 85% confident.
It’s the closest the project has ever come to construction, and should it proceed then it’s a 40-year old problem “solved”.
M40 > M1
A303/A30 > M4-M5
A303/A30 > M4-M5
Re: Why the A303 will probably never become a motorway and won't be fully dualled for a long time
I don't like it at all ! OK, A303 westbound traffic can have its own lane to M5 southbound, but coming the other way you have to go round the whole shebang. Quite what improvements they can put in here I fail to see. The plain fact is that the enormous recent development around Jn 25 means the traffic is all concentrated into one spot. Maybe put in a junction to the north where the A361 goes off from the A38 to ease Jn 25 a bitDebaser wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:07If you've not seen the Preferred Route Announcement for the A358 already, you may not like this...
Re: Why the A303 will probably never become a motorway and won't be fully dualled for a long time
I can understand upgrading the A358 because it is an important and useful connection to the M5, Taunton and areas like Exmoor, but I am not sure about calling that stretch of road the A303 as I am still very doubtful about as being the route to use to get to Exeter, let alone SE Devon. I know that currently the A303 terminates on the A30 before getting that far but I think of it as part of the same overall route.
Re: Why the A303 will probably never become a motorway and won't be fully dualled for a long time
Oops! Yes, quite right.A320Driver wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 13:34Minor point of order, the Planning Inspectorate have made their recommendation (way back in January), the decision to proceed now rests with the Secretary of State, Mr Shapps.
Chris
Roads.org.uk
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- Cryoraptor
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Re: Why the A303 will probably never become a motorway and won't be fully dualled for a long time
I agree that the A358 should be upgraded as it is without a doubt an important connection, however it shouldn't be in spite of continuing to upgrade the A303/A30 route, instead being part of the same upgrading scheme. Expecting South Devon and Cornwall-bound traffic to detour up an upgraded A358 is ludicrous, not to mention loading completely unnecessary extra traffic on both the A358 and southbound M5. That's just pulling another M25 situation which should be avoided.trickstat wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 14:28 I can understand upgrading the A358 because it is an important and useful connection to the M5, Taunton and areas like Exmoor, but I am not sure about calling that stretch of road the A303 as I am still very doubtful about as being the route to use to get to Exeter, let alone SE Devon. I know that currently the A303 terminates on the A30 before getting that far but I think of it as part of the same overall route.
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Re: Why the A303 will probably never become a motorway and won't be fully dualled for a long time
I think the argument given by HE is that the M5 operates under capacity between J25 and J29. They are fortunate that the A358 exists, in that they can trunk it and upgrade it, as a solution to the A303/30 issues between Ilminster and Honiton. It’s about 13 miles further I think but projected to have a pretty similar journey time than the existing route once the upgrade is complete.
However J25 is a disaster waiting to happen and it’s a crying shame that free flow isn’t provided onto the M5.
However J25 is a disaster waiting to happen and it’s a crying shame that free flow isn’t provided onto the M5.
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- Patrick Harper
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Re: Why the A303 will probably never become a motorway and won't be fully dualled for a long time
Based on the current standards, most roads could essentially become motorways with minimal cost as long as they have:
1) No dropped kerbs/property access points (except designated service areas)
2) Appropriate signage and technology
3) A strong justification for motorway restrictions
4) Hard shoulders OR frequent emergency laybys + central concrete barrier in the case of dual-carriageways
5) LARs (Local Access Roads) for non-motorway traffic
How much of the current A303 could meet those requirements with no additional land take? To my best guess, from east to west:
1) Most of the Andover Bypass (A3093-A343)
2) Ilminster Bypass
Yup, that's it. Is there any point in doing the paperwork to make it happen? I don't think so. A lot of strategic A-roads are in the same position as the A303, but only the A1 was valuable enough for small patches of blue A1 to make it onto OS maps.
1) No dropped kerbs/property access points (except designated service areas)
2) Appropriate signage and technology
3) A strong justification for motorway restrictions
4) Hard shoulders OR frequent emergency laybys + central concrete barrier in the case of dual-carriageways
5) LARs (Local Access Roads) for non-motorway traffic
How much of the current A303 could meet those requirements with no additional land take? To my best guess, from east to west:
2) Ilminster Bypass
Yup, that's it. Is there any point in doing the paperwork to make it happen? I don't think so. A lot of strategic A-roads are in the same position as the A303, but only the A1 was valuable enough for small patches of blue A1 to make it onto OS maps.
Last edited by Patrick Harper on Fri Jul 03, 2020 14:40, edited 1 time in total.