Roads which should be brought back as "Trunk"

[Patrick Harper]

The problem isn't so much the M25 but the South Mimms junction and the D2M A1(M) south of Hatfield. Maybe it needs the ALR treatment.

Cant say it ever caused me much problem, southbound but northbound there were often delays at peak times where it comes down to 2 lanes but I believe there is in fact a scheme in place to make this into a Smart Motorway with work having already started.

https://highwaysengland.co.uk/projects/ ... -motorway/

That scheme is for J6-8, not J1-3. J1-3 definitely gets congested in the peak hours.

[A303Chris]

TfL Red Route network

To right, if you thought the HE were bad at managing Strategic Roads, TfL take it to an entirely different level.

I would add the A33 between, the M3 and M4 as it takes a lot of traffic going between the south coast and heading towards Reading, Maidenhead, Slough and Wycombe.

And the A329(M) and A322 between the M4 and M3 as this take huge volumes of traffic between M4 west and M25 south, is 8 miles shorter and misses the most congested section of the M25 between the M3 to M40

[WHBM]

TfL Red Route network

To right, if you thought the HE were bad at managing Strategic Roads, TfL take it to an entirely different level.

They actually quickly became quite good at it in the first Boris administration, but in his second one he lost interest in it and so did they. The current Mayor however has taken it to those new depths (I believe he doesn't drive). It's also determined by the TfL Commissioner. Sir Peter was good, and one can only have hopes for newly-appointed Byford picking up the pieces, but in the interregnum by Brown they appear to have completely lost it.

Ken used to go round on the Underground and chat to the passengers . Boris went on his bike with Scotland Yard trying to keep up . Khan thinks he is so important he got a chauffeured £300k armoured Range-Rover bought for himself https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... Rover.html

[TomJ]

It the A17 was returned to HE it would just suffer from the same lack of maintenance that bedevils the A47

Despite the couple of roundabout upgrades it's seen over the past years, I still think there's more of a chance of more major improvements being done such as dualling sections or making at least some of it S2+1 if it were under the authority of HE. Both of which would be very welcome to avoid the crawls that inevitably happen along it.

Don't forget that the A47 should see quite a few improvements over RIS2. Improvements that the likes of which I don't see happening on the A17 whilst it's under Lincolnshire County Council's control.

I might not be in a majority, but I would certainly start to take this route to go north from Norwich/Kings Lynn instead of the A47 & A1 if at least there were some more opportunities to make progress, rather than just being stuck behind a tractor for miles while being sent to sleep by the endless fields of cabbages which surround the road. No wonder the accident statistics for this route are so high - it must be the most exciting thing that could possibly happen along the A17...

[Peter350]

Seeing as the A47 west of Kings Lynn is currently trunk while the A17 was stripped of that status some time ago, I think the general concensus is that HE wish to eventually upgrade the A47 to Peterborough to the point that it would be better to go that way rather than the A17 for points north on the A1. Currently HE have plans to make the Acle - Dereham stretch of A47 expressway standard, so I wouldn’t be surprised if that is gradually extended westward towards Kings Lynn over the next few years. The KL - Peterborough stretch will probably be the last bit of A47 to be dualled due to it passing through fens and Guyhirn, meaning an offline route is likely to be the only option.

Until that time comes, there will always be a case for making the A17 trunk again, but I just can’t see HE wishing to take it on anytime soon.

[skiddaw05]

I always thought the round of detrunking of which the A17 was a part was somewhat drastic, but back then trunk roads in Norfolk, and presumably elsewhere, were maintained by the local highway authority*, not by the Highways Agency. If that were still the case I'd be more than happy for it to be re-trunked

(*I appreciate that some local authorities might make even more of a hash of highway maintenance than HE do)

[Fenlander]

As much as the A17 would benefit from some dual carriageway stretches and an A17 flyover at Sutterton roundabout (now impossible since they built the new services in that space) just a few stretches of S2+1 would do, especially heading away from roundabouts & junctions where the performance & speed differential between different classes of vehicles is at its greatest.

[the cheesecake man]

A630 Sheffield Parkway from the M1 to the city boundary. It seems unfair on Rotherham Council for them to have to maintain a road whose main use is traffic between Sheffield and the M1. The state of the surface in places suggests Rotherham Council think so too.

[Norfolktolancashire]

As much as the A17 would benefit from some dual carriageway stretches and an A17 flyover at Sutterton roundabout (now impossible since they built the new services in that space) just a few stretches of S2+1 would do, especially heading away from roundabouts & junctions where the performance & speed differential between different classes of vehicles is at its greatest.

The road was upgraded a lot in the 1980's under HE ownership, like you say it needs a few improvements to allow safer overtaking of HGV's and agri traffic such as S2 +1, not at junctions like the original improvements were, such as here

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.98186 ... 312!8i6656

[TomJ]

Seeing as the A47 west of Kings Lynn is currently trunk while the A17 was stripped of that status some time ago, I think the general concensus is that HE wish to eventually upgrade the A47 to Peterborough to the point that it would be better to go that way rather than the A17 for points north on the A1. Currently HE have plans to make the Acle - Dereham stretch of A47 expressway standard, so I wouldn’t be surprised if that is gradually extended westward towards Kings Lynn over the next few years. The KL - Peterborough stretch will probably be the last bit of A47 to be dualled due to it passing through fens and Guyhirn, meaning an offline route is likely to be the only option.

Until that time comes, there will always be a case for making the A17 trunk again, but I just can’t see HE wishing to take it on anytime soon.

I know that the A47 would be the fastest route should a good chunk more or even all of it be dualled, but I don't see why it should be. Combined with the A1, it's still 2 sides of the triangle if you're going north - if the A17 was at least upgraded a bit to have regular overtaking opportunities like S2+1 then that would still remove the slow convoys that seem to always be a feature of this road. Sections like this certainly seem to be nearly wide enough for it.

I've said it before, and again I might be in a minority, but I almost always take the A47 from Kings Lynn instead of the A17 if I'm heading north, just to avoid it. Give it some more sections of dual or S2+1 and the time saving from that would be enough for me to consider taking it instead. Going anywhere further west from Norwich such as Derby, Manchester or the Lake District? It'll be the A11-A14 then M6/M1-A50-A500 for me please.

Now of course, if we started inducing more demand on this road then the A1/A46 junction would certainly need taking a look at. It's not particularly great as it is.

[Fenlander]

Sections like this certainly seem to be nearly wide enough for it.[/url]

If you look closely you can just about make out where the original edge of carriageway white lines were. Up until the last couple of years the white lines were a good 50cm if not more closer to the edge, they were moved inwards to narrow the lanes to put people off from overtaking down the middle with oncoming traffic. To that end it worked.

[Micro The Maniac]

there were often delays at peak times where it comes down to 2 lanes

I agree... I must admit to be puzzled why we still have lane-drops on major routes - they are known as being a cause for congestion as UK drivers seem incapable of merging.

It is especially frustrating when the lane drop occurs immediately before, or even worse, immediately after a junction... the A31 at Cadnam being a case in point which is a real pinch-point while traffic sorts itself out at the merge. Much better would be for the slip road to take the nearside lane off, the mainline continuing as two lanes

[KeithW]

there were often delays at peak times where it comes down to 2 lanes

I agree... I must admit to be puzzled why we still have lane-drops on major routes - they are known as being a cause for congestion as UK drivers seem incapable of merging.

It is especially frustrating when the lane drop occurs immediately before, or even worse, immediately after a junction... the A31 at Cadnam being a case in point which is a real pinch-point while traffic sorts itself out at the merge. Much better would be for the slip road to take the nearside lane off, the mainline continuing as two lanes

In the case of the A1(M) its the the result of a number of factors. The main one afflicts the entire road - the piecemeal upgrades that started in the 1950's and are still stuttering on. The poster boy here is the Doncaster bypass which was built in the spirit of the older bypasses such as Grantham, Barnet and Stamford but because it was going to be connected to the M1 by the M18 was built D2(M). There seems to have never been a strategy for the route in the way that there was for the M1 or M6. Even as late as 1980 the A1 from South Mimms to Peterborough was a road that varied from D3(M) to S2 not to mention Hatfield where it was effectively a poor example of an suburban outer ring road.

If we look at Apex Corner to Peterborough its a road that varies between the sublime D4(M) at Peterborough to the ridiculous D2 with roundabouts , direct access from peoples drives, flat junctions and businesses lining the road at Sandy. In 1960 Peter Walker described it as the busiest and most dangerous back lane in Europe, if anything he was understating it.

Just take a look at the opening dates of the A1(M) between South Mimms and Peterborough and you will see what I mean.

South Mimms to Roestock (J1 to J2) May 1979
Roestock to Stanborough (J2 to J4) December 1986
Stanborough to Welwyn (J4 to J6) May 1973
Stevenage By-pass (J6 to J8) May 1962
Baldock By-pass (J9 to J10) July 1967
Alconbury to Peterborough (J13 to J17) October 1998

This is what the Americans call band-aid engineering where you simply keep patching the worst bits of the road instead on standing back, taking a good look and developing a strategic plan.

[NICK 647063]

I think that whilst we do have the Major Road Network map, some routes don't have the funding and pull from councils to spend money on them.

A casing point is the A120 which is a strategic route from the M11 to the A12 and could be extended properly from the M11 to A1 at Stevenage to form a east-west axis but Herts and Essex won't fund this and neither have the money or resources to build or maintain it.

Some routes I would start with bringing back into government control:
1) A17 - main route from E.Anglia to the North
2) A120 - could be an east to west route from Stevenage to Essex
3) A10 - 50k AADF towards London and is the main route across the fens - though not as strategic as some.
4) A40 - Oxford to the M5, this could act as a M4 alternative for traffic from north of Oxford to Bristol and the M5
5) A605 - Peterboro' to Thrapston (A14) links the midlands with the A1 going north, E.Anglia and Lincolnshire
6) A64 - Leeds to the A1(M) - main route from the North to Leeds, should be under government control

Any others you think we should add?

I completely agree with all the above, I personally know the A64 section you mention like the back of my hand and it should never have been detrunked, I think the feeling was when the M1 East of Leeds opened it became less important as a through route to the motorways but as you say it still links Leeds (3rd biggest city) to the North and east, it’s now also taking traffic that was on the A58, apparently when the new East Leeds Orbital Road opens in 2022 they expect the traffic on the A64 between the new road and A1(M) J44 to rise 35% alone not to mention the ever expanding Leeds City Centre and the thousands of houses planned east of Leeds, it’s going to need dualling it’s already overloaded.

[KeithW]

I completely agree with all the above, I personally know the A64 section you mention like the back of my hand and it should never have been detrunked, I think the feeling was when the M1 East of Leeds opened it became less important as a through route to the motorways but as you say it still links Leeds (3rd biggest city) to the North and east, it’s now also taking traffic that was on the A58, apparently when the new East Leeds Orbital Road opens in 2022 they expect the traffic on the A64 between the new road and A1(M) J44 to rise 35% alone not to mention the ever expanding Leeds City Centre and the thousands of houses planned east of Leeds, it’s going to need dualling it’s already overloaded.

Its not in the remit of Highways England to build roads that make development within Leeds easier. That said I am in favour of upgrading the A64 between the new East Leeds Orbital Road and the A1(M) to a high class dual carriageway. The existing road is seriously under standard and downright dangerous with all the flat junctions and direct accesses to the road.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.83883 ... 8192?hl=en

Given that the A64 between the A1(M) and Scarborough is already trunk it really does make sense for this section to be trunk. If nothing else it would reduce the problem of weaving at Hook Moor.

[Monroads]

A446/A38 From the M42 to Weeford.

Still sees a large amount of Long Distance Traffic and Heavy Loads heading up to the A5 and Derby/Burton in spite of the toll road running parallel.

Bassets Pole island has been neglected since de trunking too with the road markings/lanes being non existent and the general surface poor

[Patrick Harper]

This is a slight deviation - a road/corridor that has never been trunk, the A272.

Its current guise isn't great as the eastern end is at the A267 near Five Ashes. From there, I would extend the route down the A267 and A265 to Hurst Green (A21). From there, the provisionary route would be the A229 to Hawkhurst, A268, A28 to Tenterden, then B2067 to Westenhanger at M20 J11.

The idea is that the route could be gradually upgraded to form a relief for the A27 and M25, much easier to achieve as a national road rather than one under four separate authorities.