Post #1 of this thread contains a link to a BBC report saying the junction was finished in late 2019. Late 2019 + 5 years = late 2024.
M49 - link to nowhere
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Re: M49 - link to nowhere
Make poetry history.
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Re: M49 - link to nowhere
Oh I see - yes, that makes sense. I read the sentence as meaning “five years after it was built, it’s still two years away from opening”.
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Re: M49 - link to nowhere
. It'sChris5156 wrote: ↑Sat May 21, 2022 19:52I don’t know how they got five years but I’m fairly sure their maths is off!gepree68 wrote: ↑Sat May 21, 2022 14:46 £50m M49 dead-end junction 'still two years from opening' from 2022-05-20
From yesterday's Bristol Live:So it was completed in 2019, and is currently expected to open in 2024.The £50million M49 junction-to-nowhere is still two years away from opening –
a whole five years after it was built, according to metro mayor Dan Norris.
Mr Norris says he is “absolutely furious” at the “colossal mistake” between officials
at South Gloucestershire Council and National Highways – formerly Highways England –
that has left the dead-end motorway roundabout near Avonmouth, completed in 2019,
unconnected to the local road network.
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Re: M49 - link to nowhere
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bris ... nk-7691583Creating the missing link to the ghost junction on the M49 motorway near Bristol is finally happening - as South Gloucestershire Council
has made the first move in what could be a lengthy planning process that will eventually see it built.
The unitary authority has taken the first step to getting planning permission to build the junction, three years after the roundabout on the motorway itself was completed.
Re: M49 - link to nowhere
It defies belief that that planning consent wasn't sought for the road and the short missing link at the same time, but surely this shouldn't need a lengthy planning process!? There's nothing of any value about the wasteland, and there can't be anyone seriously objecting to it.
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Re: M49 - link to nowhere
Agreed. I assume the consultation period will only be the statutory minimum, although I could see some of the more misguided environmental lobbyists obstructing it just for the purpose of making a point. But as I said months ago, it is just a joke that a motorway junction could be built without firm plans in place (and I mean contractors appointed) for the roads it will serve. I appreciate that even Almondsbury junction was built with dead arms, but I'm also fairly sure that design and build had already gotten well underway on the following contracts, as most things (and I mean most not all!) were rather more joined up when the network was being built originally - at least on a local scale, if not so much on a national one.c2R wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 18:57 It defies belief that that planning consent wasn't sought for the road and the short missing link at the same time, but surely this shouldn't need a lengthy planning process!? There's nothing of any value about the wasteland, and there can't be anyone seriously objecting to it.
That was of course helped by the vastly reduced admin and consultation burden of much of the planning and building being done in-house by large local authorities. Ultimately it seems unlikely this situation would have occurred if one highway authority was liable for the junction and the linking works.
Re: M49 - link to nowhere
With the utter incompetence of roadbuilding in the UK, with wastes of money like this being built, and halfway decent junction improvements never being considered, I suppose anything goes really.
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Re: M49 - link to nowhere
gepree68 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 13:00 M49-junction.jpgCreating the missing link to the ghost junction on the M49 motorway near Bristol is finally happening - as South Gloucestershire Council
has made the first move in what could be a lengthy planning process that will eventually see it built.
The unitary authority has taken the first step to getting planning permission to build the junction, three years after the roundabout on the motorway itself was completed.
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bris ... nk-7691583
Every time I see this I wince at the “design” geometry.
M19
Re: M49 - link to nowhere
What is it you don't like about it, out of interest?M19 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 21:20Every time I see this I wince at the “design” geometry.gepree68 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 13:00 M49-junction.jpghttps://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bris ... nk-7691583Creating the missing link to the ghost junction on the M49 motorway near Bristol is finally happening - as South Gloucestershire Council
has made the first move in what could be a lengthy planning process that will eventually see it built.
The unitary authority has taken the first step to getting planning permission to build the junction, three years after the roundabout on the motorway itself was completed.
Re: M49 - link to nowhere
The design itself is really ugly - function over style....
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Re: M49 - link to nowhere
I guess it's to be expected given it's essentially a new part of Avonmouth Industrial Estate. Nevermind that it's actually a newbuild junction on a major holiday route, I suppose.
Re: M49 - link to nowhere
Here’s the same type of junction:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/tBvTQCj4UoCRxkfYA?g_st=ic
To turn left you don’t have an awkward entry angle onto the roundabout and therefore, do not have a reverse curve to negotiate to turn left.
With the M49 junction, with the sharp entry it has a reverse curve. Drivers turning left will often ignore the curve to take the straightest most natural path and end up on going wide toward the inside of the roundabout which isn’t good if they do not notice someone alongside them who is turning right. The design encourages entry path overlap. In other words it’s less numpty proof.
M19
Re: M49 - link to nowhere
I would have thought the Planning Authority would have stipulated a time frame for the developer to complete the missing section
Motorways travelled 2019 - M90 - M9 - M80 - M8 -M77 - M73 -A74(M) -M6-M42-M40 -A404(M) - M4 - M5 -M50 -M56 much better so far than last year
Re: M49 - link to nowhere
Oh, yeah, I see what you mean. That's not good at all. Trying to climb inside the mind of the designers, they probably hoped that drivers could somehow magically detect the reverse curve and slow down appropriately - essentially they have removed the 'passively safe road design' slice of swiss cheese from the safety system. At a junction that is going to be populated with commuters and very large HGVs. Nice.M19 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 19:21
Here’s the same type of junction:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/tBvTQCj4UoCRxkfYA?g_st=ic
To turn left you don’t have an awkward entry angle onto the roundabout and therefore, do not have a reverse curve to negotiate to turn left.
With the M49 junction, with the sharp entry it has a reverse curve. Drivers turning left will often ignore the curve to take the straightest most natural path and end up on going wide toward the inside of the roundabout which isn’t good if they do not notice someone alongside them who is turning right. The design encourages entry path overlap. In other words it’s less numpty proof.
Re: M49 - link to nowhere
If you eliminate the reverse curve you won't achieve entry path deflection, which is important on a motorway slip road approach to a roundabout.M19 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 19:21
Here’s the same type of junction:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/tBvTQCj4UoCRxkfYA?g_st=ic
To turn left you don’t have an awkward entry angle onto the roundabout and therefore, do not have a reverse curve to negotiate to turn left.
With the M49 junction, with the sharp entry it has a reverse curve. Drivers turning left will often ignore the curve to take the straightest most natural path and end up on going wide toward the inside of the roundabout which isn’t good if they do not notice someone alongside them who is turning right. The design encourages entry path overlap. In other words it’s less numpty proof.
Re: M49 - link to nowhere
The problem is you can't have multi-lane approaches using the geometry we now expect in DMRB without creating entry path overlap. It is only safe if the entry is a single lane, which is why European roundabouts often have lane drops approaching them so you can't high speed short-cut whereas we slam both lanes at 70 mph straight into the give way lines. Contrast:tom1977 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 09:48If you eliminate the reverse curve you won't achieve entry path deflection, which is important on a motorway slip road approach to a roundabout.M19 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 19:21
Here’s the same type of junction:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/tBvTQCj4UoCRxkfYA?g_st=ic
To turn left you don’t have an awkward entry angle onto the roundabout and therefore, do not have a reverse curve to negotiate to turn left.
With the M49 junction, with the sharp entry it has a reverse curve. Drivers turning left will often ignore the curve to take the straightest most natural path and end up on going wide toward the inside of the roundabout which isn’t good if they do not notice someone alongside them who is turning right. The design encourages entry path overlap. In other words it’s less numpty proof.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD0s5Po2VJk
This is exactly why the Dutch invented the Turbo Roundabout, it keeps the sharp slow entries which improve safety whilst splitting out the movements so there's no path overlap and high speed short-cutting.
Bryn
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Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
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Re: M49 - link to nowhere
Luckily the new M49 roundabout is fully numpty proof, because the entry points to the roundabout are all single lane, and the circulatory is marked as a single lane too. The circulatory carriageway is only 7m wide so at low speeds you could theoretically get two cars side by side, but it certainly doesn't invite that or look like it's suitable for use in that way and people are unlikely to attempt it.Bryn666 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:07The problem is you can't have multi-lane approaches using the geometry we now expect in DMRB without creating entry path overlap. It is only safe if the entry is a single lane, which is why European roundabouts often have lane drops approaching them so you can't high speed short-cut whereas we slam both lanes at 70 mph straight into the give way lines.tom1977 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 09:48If you eliminate the reverse curve you won't achieve entry path deflection, which is important on a motorway slip road approach to a roundabout.M19 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 19:21 With the M49 junction, with the sharp entry it has a reverse curve. Drivers turning left will often ignore the curve to take the straightest most natural path and end up on going wide toward the inside of the roundabout which isn’t good if they do not notice someone alongside them who is turning right. The design encourages entry path overlap. In other words it’s less numpty proof.
I agree that deflection and reverse curves on modern roundabouts are a problem, but it's fairly academic in this case!
Chris
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Re: M49 - link to nowhere
I'm sure it was all modelled with no tweaking to suit the budget rather than flow reality...Chris5156 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:34Luckily the new M49 roundabout is fully numpty proof, because the entry points to the roundabout are all single lane, and the circulatory is marked as a single lane too. The circulatory carriageway is only 7m wide so at low speeds you could theoretically get two cars side by side, but it certainly doesn't invite that or look like it's suitable for use in that way and people are unlikely to attempt it.Bryn666 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:07The problem is you can't have multi-lane approaches using the geometry we now expect in DMRB without creating entry path overlap. It is only safe if the entry is a single lane, which is why European roundabouts often have lane drops approaching them so you can't high speed short-cut whereas we slam both lanes at 70 mph straight into the give way lines.
I agree that deflection and reverse curves on modern roundabouts are a problem, but it's fairly academic in this case!
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: M49 - link to nowhere
Almost certainly. The constraint on the roundabout carriageway width was the south bridge, which is original to the M49 and was designed to carry a bridleway/accommodation track. It is wide enough for a 7m carriageway so that’s all you get.Bryn666 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:42I'm sure it was all modelled with no tweaking to suit the budget rather than flow reality...Chris5156 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:34Luckily the new M49 roundabout is fully numpty proof, because the entry points to the roundabout are all single lane, and the circulatory is marked as a single lane too. The circulatory carriageway is only 7m wide so at low speeds you could theoretically get two cars side by side, but it certainly doesn't invite that or look like it's suitable for use in that way and people are unlikely to attempt it.Bryn666 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:07
The problem is you can't have multi-lane approaches using the geometry we now expect in DMRB without creating entry path overlap. It is only safe if the entry is a single lane, which is why European roundabouts often have lane drops approaching them so you can't high speed short-cut whereas we slam both lanes at 70 mph straight into the give way lines.
I agree that deflection and reverse curves on modern roundabouts are a problem, but it's fairly academic in this case!
Chris
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Re: M49 - link to nowhere
They might wanna resurface the existing junction so it stays nice and clean, like any ordinary new road.gepree68 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 13:00 M49-junction.jpghttps://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bris ... nk-7691583Creating the missing link to the ghost junction on the M49 motorway near Bristol is finally happening - as South Gloucestershire Council
has made the first move in what could be a lengthy planning process that will eventually see it built.
The unitary authority has taken the first step to getting planning permission to build the junction, three years after the roundabout on the motorway itself was completed.
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