M49 - link to nowhere

The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.

There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).

Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.

Moderator: Site Management Team

Kalna
Member
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 21:52

M49 - link to nowhere

Post by Kalna »

On the BBC website this morning. How can this sort of thing allowed to happen, a waste of public money if the job isn't completed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-53808525
User avatar
Stevie D
Member
Posts: 8000
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 17:19
Location: Yorkshire

Re: M49 - link to nowhere

Post by Stevie D »

Kalna wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 09:09 On the BBC website this morning. How can this sort of thing allowed to happen, a waste of public money if the job isn't completed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-53808525
Maybe the council should give notice of intention to impose a 7.5t weight limit on the other roads leading to the industrial estate...
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35754
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: M49 - link to nowhere

Post by Bryn666 »

No different to M1 J45 being unfinished for nigh on ten years though is it?
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
User avatar
c2R
SABRE Wiki admin
Posts: 11162
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2002 11:01

Re: M49 - link to nowhere

Post by c2R »

Stevie D wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:03
Kalna wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 09:09 On the BBC website this morning. How can this sort of thing allowed to happen, a waste of public money if the job isn't completed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-53808525
Maybe the council should give notice of intention to impose a 7.5t weight limit on the other roads leading to the industrial estate...
Yes,that I think would help focus the mind...
Is there a road improvement project going on near you? Help us to document it on the SABRE Wiki - help is available in the Digest forum.
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Get involved! - see our guide to scanning and stitching maps
DB617
Member
Posts: 1286
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2017 00:51
Location: Bristol

Re: M49 - link to nowhere

Post by DB617 »

It's pretty bad that we've just kind of accepted at this point that the very cash strapped HE elected to build this junction despite having absolutely no guaranteed connections into it. Ground should have been broken on the private road the same time as the motorway, or else, no junction. How does this even happen?

It is most certainly a sign of the times that the businesses (very, very large in some cases) would prefer to keep their vehicles travelling via the M48 and thundering down the Severn Beach road rather than having their own dedicated junction for a relatively small cost.
Hdeng16
Member
Posts: 539
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 20:47

Re: M49 - link to nowhere

Post by Hdeng16 »

DB617 wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:58 It's pretty bad that we've just kind of accepted at this point that the very cash strapped HE elected to build this junction despite having absolutely no guaranteed connections into it. Ground should have been broken on the private road the same time as the motorway, or else, no junction. How does this even happen?

It is most certainly a sign of the times that the businesses (very, very large in some cases) would prefer to keep their vehicles travelling via the M48 and thundering down the Severn Beach road rather than having their own dedicated junction for a relatively small cost.
Yes you'd think amazon and tesco especially would be pushing for this. Most of amazon's massive units are just off motorway junctions.
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35754
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: M49 - link to nowhere

Post by Bryn666 »

The local authority clearly foolishly allowed developments to open before the roads were ready.

For once this isn't actually a HE blunder in my view.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
User avatar
c2R
SABRE Wiki admin
Posts: 11162
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2002 11:01

Re: M49 - link to nowhere

Post by c2R »

Yes, I would have hoped there were clauses in either the local authority's planning agreement as well as between the tin shed occupiers and the estates company to make the connection to the motorway junction watertight to force the estates company to build the link road in the same time frame as the HE contractors built the junction.
Is there a road improvement project going on near you? Help us to document it on the SABRE Wiki - help is available in the Digest forum.
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Get involved! - see our guide to scanning and stitching maps
User avatar
Chris5156
Deputy Treasurer
Posts: 16908
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2001 21:50
Location: Hampshire
Contact:

Re: M49 - link to nowhere

Post by Chris5156 »

Bryn666 wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:37No different to M1 J45 being unfinished for nigh on ten years though is it?
The East Leeds Link was a council scheme, rather than a developer led one, though I've no doubt there were some significant developer contributions. But yes. You build the junction and you don't always get the road at the same time.
DB617 wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:58It's pretty bad that we've just kind of accepted at this point that the very cash strapped HE elected to build this junction despite having absolutely no guaranteed connections into it.
Without wishing to negate your other points, I don't think you can really call HE cash strapped - all VED payments in England are ringfenced for their use and their budget is vast.
User avatar
Owain
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 26209
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 17:02
Location: Leodis

Re: M49 - link to nowhere

Post by Owain »

At least this answers a question that's been on my mind ever since the M49 opened: why was the M49's junction with with the M4 built with full access in each direction, rather than being a simpler (and presumably cheaper) limited-access junction serving only traffic to/from South Wales?

The fact that the M49 was supposed to have a junction serving the distribution centres at its halfway point provides the answer!
Former President & F99 Driver

Viva la Repubblica!
DB617
Member
Posts: 1286
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2017 00:51
Location: Bristol

Re: M49 - link to nowhere

Post by DB617 »

Chris5156 wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 16:24
DB617 wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:58It's pretty bad that we've just kind of accepted at this point that the very cash strapped HE elected to build this junction despite having absolutely no guaranteed connections into it.
Without wishing to negate your other points, I don't think you can really call HE cash strapped - all VED payments in England are ringfenced for their use and their budget is vast.
Definitely an assumption on my part, as every other Government department has a dearth of both money and expertise.
User avatar
Chris Bertram
Member
Posts: 15744
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: M49 - link to nowhere

Post by Chris Bertram »

Owain wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 16:29 At least this answers a question that's been on my mind ever since the M49 opened: why was the M49's junction with with the M4 built with full access in each direction, rather than being a simpler (and presumably cheaper) limited-access junction serving only traffic to/from South Wales?

The fact that the M49 was supposed to have a junction serving the distribution centres at its halfway point provides the answer!
It's one answer - the other is that it provided traffic with a last chance to turn round and avoid the toll, especially if they didn't have the cash to hand. That reason no longer applies, of course. On the M48 that opportunity existed at the A403/Aust (Severn View) Services junction.
“The quality of any advice anybody has to offer has to be judged against the quality of life they actually lead.” - Douglas Adams.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
User avatar
Stevie D
Member
Posts: 8000
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 17:19
Location: Yorkshire

Re: M49 - link to nowhere

Post by Stevie D »

Owain wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 16:29 At least this answers a question that's been on my mind ever since the M49 opened: why was the M49's junction with with the M4 built with full access in each direction, rather than being a simpler (and presumably cheaper) limited-access junction serving only traffic to/from South Wales?

The fact that the M49 was supposed to have a junction serving the distribution centres at its halfway point provides the answer!
I think it was also built like that so that it could provide an alternative route to the M5 between Avonmouth and Almondsbury if there was a problem on the main section. Obviously we don't generally go round adding in redundancy "just in case", but when all that is needed is to change a fork junction for a roundabout interchange, it's an easy win.
User avatar
Chris Bertram
Member
Posts: 15744
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: M49 - link to nowhere

Post by Chris Bertram »

Stevie D wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 17:05
Owain wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 16:29 At least this answers a question that's been on my mind ever since the M49 opened: why was the M49's junction with with the M4 built with full access in each direction, rather than being a simpler (and presumably cheaper) limited-access junction serving only traffic to/from South Wales?

The fact that the M49 was supposed to have a junction serving the distribution centres at its halfway point provides the answer!
I think it was also built like that so that it could provide an alternative route to the M5 between Avonmouth and Almondsbury if there was a problem on the main section. Obviously we don't generally go round adding in redundancy "just in case", but when all that is needed is to change a fork junction for a roundabout interchange, it's an easy win.
A directional-T junction would have provided that facility. I think the turnround facility (see my point above) was what determined the choice of a roundabout.
“The quality of any advice anybody has to offer has to be judged against the quality of life they actually lead.” - Douglas Adams.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35754
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: M49 - link to nowhere

Post by Bryn666 »

Chris Bertram wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 17:07
Stevie D wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 17:05
Owain wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 16:29 At least this answers a question that's been on my mind ever since the M49 opened: why was the M49's junction with with the M4 built with full access in each direction, rather than being a simpler (and presumably cheaper) limited-access junction serving only traffic to/from South Wales?

The fact that the M49 was supposed to have a junction serving the distribution centres at its halfway point provides the answer!
I think it was also built like that so that it could provide an alternative route to the M5 between Avonmouth and Almondsbury if there was a problem on the main section. Obviously we don't generally go round adding in redundancy "just in case", but when all that is needed is to change a fork junction for a roundabout interchange, it's an easy win.
A directional-T junction would have provided that facility. I think the turnround facility (see my point above) was what determined the choice of a roundabout.
Yes I think it's because of turning traffic around, otherwise it would have been easier and cheaper to build a single bridge trumpet.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
User avatar
jackal
Member
Posts: 7547
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 23:33
Location: M6

Re: M49 - link to nowhere

Post by jackal »

There's some kind of facility off the M4 junction, maybe a depot for the crossing? This could have been a factor in junction design.

From the new junction scheme page:

"As per our commitment in the government’s Road Investment Strategy, we've completed the construction of the new junction which will now allow local developers to build connecting roads into the stubs of the junction once they’re ready."

It strikes me as rather unusual to build a motorway junction entirely for hypothetical future developments. Usually there would be some kind of undertaking on the part of the developers.

There is probably a useful message here that, if HE really want to be in the development game, they should not do so unilaterally. I have no doubt that the stubs will be connected eventually, but there's no sense in making that contingent on ex post haggling with the landowners holding all the cards.

Here's the junction in all its glory:

http://assets.highwaysengland.co.uk/roa ... r+2019.jpg
A9NWIL
Member
Posts: 3319
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 02:36

Re: M49 - link to nowhere

Post by A9NWIL »

Stevie D wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:03
Kalna wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 09:09 On the BBC website this morning. How can this sort of thing allowed to happen, a waste of public money if the job isn't completed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-53808525
Maybe the council should give notice of intention to impose a 7.5t weight limit on the other roads leading to the industrial estate...
Or threaten to install a 2 metre high barrier to stop HGVs from getting in and out of the old roads?
Formerly known as 'lortjw'
User avatar
jervi
Member
Posts: 1596
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 16:29
Location: West Sussex

Re: M49 - link to nowhere

Post by jervi »

The cycle/pedestrian provision at that junction must be the best at any trunk road junction in the UK.

Zero conflict with motor traffic & grade separated from the gyratory & sliproads. It also probably added £5m onto the cost of the scheme.
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35754
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: M49 - link to nowhere

Post by Bryn666 »

jervi wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 13:54 The cycle/pedestrian provision at that junction must be the best at any trunk road junction in the UK.

Zero conflict with motor traffic & grade separated from the gyratory & sliproads. It also probably added £5m onto the cost of the scheme.
The roundabout has to be elevated above the motorway anyway, so there are no additional works to slot an NMU route through as they have done, it probably was peanuts to add this to a new build junction.

It's retrofitting this stuff that is the expensive nightmare, which is another reason to get things right first time and stop doing piecemeal crud. Cough Switch Island.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
User avatar
Jonathan B4027
Member
Posts: 2238
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2002 21:45
Location: Oxford or Birmingham

Re: M49 - link to nowhere

Post by Jonathan B4027 »

How is it signposted on the M49 or is it not currently/patched?
Casino Manager: "It was a good night. Nothing Unusual."
Harold Shand: "Nothing unusual," he says! Eric's been blown to smithereens, Colin's been carved up, and I've got a bomb in me casino, and you say nothing unusual ?"
Post Reply