London Congestion Charge Possible Expansion

The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.

There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).

Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.

Moderator: Site Management Team

Post Reply
User avatar
JammyDodge
Member
Posts: 483
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2018 13:17

Re: London Congestion Charge Possible Expansion

Post by JammyDodge »

thatapanydude wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 15:01 I can't find a thread of the London mayor elections yet (not able to start one), so here will do.

I don't know if any of you have seen Shaun Bailey's policies for roads pricing but they are very promising. He will reverse the extension of the congestion charge back to pre-covid levels (5 days a week, 7am to 6pm, £11.50) and scrap the ULEZ extension to the N and S Circular (you can find the manifesto online - don't want to be too politically partisan). In a case like this it seems obvious the government would help him out more readily as it would be a loss of not so significant income to TfL, but I have to say I courage him for taking these steps.
Isn't going to happen.
1) He isn't popular; in London, or seemingly in the party
2) The Supreme Court has ruled that the government has to reduce NO2 emissions in cities
3) It is there to reduce emissions
Designing Tomorrow, Around the Past
User avatar
Chris5156
Deputy Treasurer
Posts: 16896
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2001 21:50
Location: Hampshire
Contact:

Re: London Congestion Charge Possible Expansion

Post by Chris5156 »

Having a cuppa wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 22:59 Question. I have an MG from the 1970s back in the UK. Its not running, but after COVID and everything, I plan on getting it fixed up. Considering it is a vehicle from the 70s which runs soon four star/leaded petrol and probably produces at least 300 grams of CO2 per kilometre, does anyone know how much Sadiq will charge me? The car is located in Zone 3/4, below the Thames and I don't plan on driving it within 1 mile of the SQUARE MILE.
The easiest way to tell is to put the registration number into the "check my vehicle" tool on the TfL website.

Right now it is outside the ULEZ charging zone, but from 21 October the whole area within the North and South Circulars will be covered. At that point vehicles that don't comply with emissions standards will have to pay £12.50 a day.
User avatar
c2R
SABRE Wiki admin
Posts: 11155
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2002 11:01

Re: London Congestion Charge Possible Expansion

Post by c2R »

Chris5156 wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 09:34
Having a cuppa wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 22:59 Question. I have an MG from the 1970s back in the UK. Its not running, but after COVID and everything, I plan on getting it fixed up. Considering it is a vehicle from the 70s which runs soon four star/leaded petrol and probably produces at least 300 grams of CO2 per kilometre, does anyone know how much Sadiq will charge me? The car is located in Zone 3/4, below the Thames and I don't plan on driving it within 1 mile of the SQUARE MILE.
The easiest way to tell is to put the registration number into the "check my vehicle" tool on the TfL website.

Right now it is outside the ULEZ charging zone, but from 21 October the whole area within the North and South Circulars will be covered. At that point vehicles that don't comply with emissions standards will have to pay £12.50 a day.
The map's worth a look -
I like the little corridor of pollution that is allowed to the Hogarth Roundabout!
Is there a road improvement project going on near you? Help us to document it on the SABRE Wiki - help is available in the Digest forum.
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Get involved! - see our guide to scanning and stitching maps
User avatar
Chris5156
Deputy Treasurer
Posts: 16896
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2001 21:50
Location: Hampshire
Contact:

Re: London Congestion Charge Possible Expansion

Post by Chris5156 »

c2R wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 09:47The map's worth a look -
I like the little corridor of pollution that is allowed to the Hogarth Roundabout!
It is! Presumably because it's not practical to signpost non-ULEZ vehicles off the M4 at J2. The signposting for that would be extremely difficult, but I think also TfL lacks the authority to charge vehicles for using the full extent of the M4, so there has to be an outlet off the end of the road. Hogarth is the first point where a u-turn can be made.
Scratchwood
Member
Posts: 514
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 21:44
Location: London

Re: London Congestion Charge Possible Expansion

Post by Scratchwood »

Having a cuppa wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 22:59 Question. I have an MG from the 1970s back in the UK. Its not running, but after COVID and everything, I plan on getting it fixed up. Considering it is a vehicle from the 70s which runs soon four star/leaded petrol and probably produces at least 300 grams of CO2 per kilometre, does anyone know how much Sadiq will charge me? The car is located in Zone 3/4, below the Thames and I don't plan on driving it within 1 mile of the SQUARE MILE.
I'm guessing that you live outside the South Circular, so you won't have to pay anything as long as you stay outside the A205 and A406 from October
Scratchwood
Member
Posts: 514
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 21:44
Location: London

Re: London Congestion Charge Possible Expansion

Post by Scratchwood »

c2R wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 09:47
Chris5156 wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 09:34
Having a cuppa wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 22:59 Question. I have an MG from the 1970s back in the UK. Its not running, but after COVID and everything, I plan on getting it fixed up. Considering it is a vehicle from the 70s which runs soon four star/leaded petrol and probably produces at least 300 grams of CO2 per kilometre, does anyone know how much Sadiq will charge me? The car is located in Zone 3/4, below the Thames and I don't plan on driving it within 1 mile of the SQUARE MILE.
The easiest way to tell is to put the registration number into the "check my vehicle" tool on the TfL website.

Right now it is outside the ULEZ charging zone, but from 21 October the whole area within the North and South Circulars will be covered. At that point vehicles that don't comply with emissions standards will have to pay £12.50 a day.
The map's worth a look -
I like the little corridor of pollution that is allowed to the Hogarth Roundabout!
That map also shows the problem in using the A406 and A205 as far more of north London is covered by the charge than south London. If Ringway 2 had ever been built, then it would have been significantly further south than the A205...
User avatar
Having a cuppa
Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2020 05:27
Location: North of Vice City

Re: London Congestion Charge Possible Expansion

Post by Having a cuppa »

Chris5156 wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 09:34
Having a cuppa wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 22:59 Question. I have an MG from the 1970s back in the UK. Its not running, but after COVID and everything, I plan on getting it fixed up. Considering it is a vehicle from the 70s which runs soon four star/leaded petrol and probably produces at least 300 grams of CO2 per kilometre, does anyone know how much Sadiq will charge me? The car is located in Zone 3/4, below the Thames and I don't plan on driving it within 1 mile of the SQUARE MILE.
The easiest way to tell is to put the registration number into the "check my vehicle" tool on the TfL website.

Right now it is outside the ULEZ charging zone, but from 21 October the whole area within the North and South Circulars will be covered. At that point vehicles that don't comply with emissions standards will have to pay £12.50 a day.
Tried that before posting, but since the number plate is pre-2001 and the car hasn't been subject to any MOT tests or anything of that nature in a decade, nothing showed up. Just to confirm, I do live outside of the A205.
My car gets 90 leagues to the firkin and that's the way I like it!
User avatar
c2R
SABRE Wiki admin
Posts: 11155
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2002 11:01

Re: London Congestion Charge Possible Expansion

Post by c2R »

Having a cuppa wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 13:00
Tried that before posting, but since the number plate is pre-2001 and the car hasn't been subject to any MOT tests or anything of that nature in a decade, nothing showed up. Just to confirm, I do live outside of the A205.
I think if it's over 40 then its exempt as a historical vehicle.... not sure if you need to register that with them though....

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra- ... exemptions
Is there a road improvement project going on near you? Help us to document it on the SABRE Wiki - help is available in the Digest forum.
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Get involved! - see our guide to scanning and stitching maps
User avatar
Chris Bertram
Member
Posts: 15721
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: London Congestion Charge Possible Expansion

Post by Chris Bertram »

Bryn666 wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 20:47
Chris Bertram wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 20:40
Bryn666 wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 19:20 Doubt it matters, he's twenty points behind Sadiq Khan. Londoners on the whole don't want more cars in the capital.
Apart from their own.
London has the lowest rate of car ownership in the UK, at 56%...
That's as may be. The trouble with a raw number like that - and note that it is a majority, if not a huge one - is that I don't know whether it's been trending upwards, or downwards, or staying stable over, say, the last 10 years. WHBM, as a local, probably has a much better feel for that than either of us. Anyway, London has the best public transport provision in the UK by a country mile, but people who need their cars, and for whom even the excellent PT doesn't work, still need their cars and will be taking attitudes to congestion charging and ULEV zones into account when deciding who to vote for.
“The quality of any advice anybody has to offer has to be judged against the quality of life they actually lead.” - Douglas Adams.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
User avatar
Having a cuppa
Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2020 05:27
Location: North of Vice City

Re: London Congestion Charge Possible Expansion

Post by Having a cuppa »

c2R wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 13:09
Having a cuppa wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 13:00
Tried that before posting, but since the number plate is pre-2001 and the car hasn't been subject to any MOT tests or anything of that nature in a decade, nothing showed up. Just to confirm, I do live outside of the A205.
I think if it's over 40 then its exempt as a historical vehicle.... not sure if you need to register that with them though....

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra- ... exemptions
Thanks for letting me know. All of these low emission zones such as ULEZ and LEZ and the charge £12.50 per day for certain vehicles while it is £15 for others is bloody confusing. If Sadiq wanted to prove himself useful (which will happen when pigs fly), it would be a wiser decision to implement more residential only streets within Greater London and to pedestrianize alleys that are literally only 10 yds long. That way London would be more walkable like European cities, such as Brussels, where the city centre is not filled with a bunch of dead end roads and alleys with a width of less than 6'-6". And don't ask me how to solve incoming traffic from other parts of England. Perhaps underground tunnels, such as what Elon Musk is doing, is the best solution for moving traffic from the centre to the M25 and outwards.
My car gets 90 leagues to the firkin and that's the way I like it!
User avatar
Big Nick
Member
Posts: 4348
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 08:27
Location: Epping, Essex

Re: London Congestion Charge Possible Expansion

Post by Big Nick »

Having a cuppa wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 14:04
c2R wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 13:09
Having a cuppa wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 13:00
Tried that before posting, but since the number plate is pre-2001 and the car hasn't been subject to any MOT tests or anything of that nature in a decade, nothing showed up. Just to confirm, I do live outside of the A205.
I think if it's over 40 then its exempt as a historical vehicle.... not sure if you need to register that with them though....

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra- ... exemptions
Thanks for letting me know. All of these low emission zones such as ULEZ and LEZ and the charge £12.50 per day for certain vehicles while it is £15 for others is bloody confusing. If Sadiq wanted to prove himself useful (which will happen when pigs fly), it would be a wiser decision to implement more residential only streets within Greater London and to pedestrianize alleys that are literally only 10 yds long. That way London would be more walkable like European cities, such as Brussels, where the city centre is not filled with a bunch of dead end roads and alleys with a width of less than 6'-6". And don't ask me how to solve incoming traffic from other parts of England. Perhaps underground tunnels, such as what Elon Musk is doing, is the best solution for moving traffic from the centre to the M25 and outwards.
Don't forget about the Congestion Charge too. I think you are getting the CC and ULEZ mixed up. LEZ only applies to diesel HGVs.
My 2016 Nissan is clean enough to avoid the ULEZ charge (currently £12.50) but would have to pay the £15 CC. My old Focus would have been subject to both.

I think they would do well to merge all three Charges and make it clear on signs that the more your vehicle pollutes, the more you will pay. A Congestion & Air Pollution Charge, if you will.
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35714
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: London Congestion Charge Possible Expansion

Post by Bryn666 »

Big Nick wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 14:36
Having a cuppa wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 14:04
c2R wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 13:09

I think if it's over 40 then its exempt as a historical vehicle.... not sure if you need to register that with them though....

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra- ... exemptions
Thanks for letting me know. All of these low emission zones such as ULEZ and LEZ and the charge £12.50 per day for certain vehicles while it is £15 for others is bloody confusing. If Sadiq wanted to prove himself useful (which will happen when pigs fly), it would be a wiser decision to implement more residential only streets within Greater London and to pedestrianize alleys that are literally only 10 yds long. That way London would be more walkable like European cities, such as Brussels, where the city centre is not filled with a bunch of dead end roads and alleys with a width of less than 6'-6". And don't ask me how to solve incoming traffic from other parts of England. Perhaps underground tunnels, such as what Elon Musk is doing, is the best solution for moving traffic from the centre to the M25 and outwards.
Don't forget about the Congestion Charge too. I think you are getting the CC and ULEZ mixed up. LEZ only applies to diesel HGVs.
My 2016 Nissan is clean enough to avoid the ULEZ charge (currently £12.50) but would have to pay the £15 CC. My old Focus would have been subject to both.

I think they would do well to merge all three Charges and make it clear on signs that the more your vehicle pollutes, the more you will pay. A Congestion & Air Pollution Charge, if you will.
It would certainly make signage clearer to just have a single price "Road User Charge" to enter London.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
User avatar
Having a cuppa
Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2020 05:27
Location: North of Vice City

Re: London Congestion Charge Possible Expansion

Post by Having a cuppa »

Big Nick wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 14:36
Having a cuppa wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 14:04
c2R wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 13:09

I think if it's over 40 then its exempt as a historical vehicle.... not sure if you need to register that with them though....

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra- ... exemptions
Thanks for letting me know. All of these low emission zones such as ULEZ and LEZ and the charge £12.50 per day for certain vehicles while it is £15 for others is bloody confusing. If Sadiq wanted to prove himself useful (which will happen when pigs fly), it would be a wiser decision to implement more residential only streets within Greater London and to pedestrianize alleys that are literally only 10 yds long. That way London would be more walkable like European cities, such as Brussels, where the city centre is not filled with a bunch of dead end roads and alleys with a width of less than 6'-6". And don't ask me how to solve incoming traffic from other parts of England. Perhaps underground tunnels, such as what Elon Musk is doing, is the best solution for moving traffic from the centre to the M25 and outwards.
Don't forget about the Congestion Charge too. I think you are getting the CC and ULEZ mixed up. LEZ only applies to diesel HGVs.
My 2016 Nissan is clean enough to avoid the ULEZ charge (currently £12.50) but would have to pay the £15 CC. My old Focus would have been subject to both.

I think they would do well to merge all three Charges and make it clear on signs that the more your vehicle pollutes, the more you will pay. A Congestion & Air Pollution Charge, if you will.
Exactly my point, it's rather confusing to have three separate schemes. If Sadiq did implement your concept, would it follow a classification scheme? For instance would there be signage posted on the perimeter of the zone, stating "CO2 Emissions Daily Charge £0 - under XXg/km, £10 - between XXg/km & XXg/km £15 - above XXg/km"? Or would it work differently?
My car gets 90 leagues to the firkin and that's the way I like it!
Isleworth1961
Member
Posts: 771
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 14:15
Location: South Gloucestershire

Re: London Congestion Charge Possible Expansion

Post by Isleworth1961 »

Big Nick wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 14:36 Don't forget about the Congestion Charge too. I think you are getting the CC and ULEZ mixed up. LEZ only applies to diesel HGVs.
My 2016 Nissan is clean enough to avoid the ULEZ charge (currently £12.50) but would have to pay the £15 CC. My old Focus would have been subject to both.
What engine was your Focus (diesel?)? My 2001 1.6 petrol Focus is showing as exempt ULEZ charge, but is subject to the CC.
WHBM
Member
Posts: 9696
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 18:01
Location: London

Re: London Congestion Charge Possible Expansion

Post by WHBM »

Chris Bertram wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 13:15
Bryn666 wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 20:47 London has the lowest rate of car ownership in the UK, at 56%...
That's as may be. The trouble with a raw number like that - and note that it is a majority, if not a huge one - is that I don't know whether it's been trending upwards, or downwards, or staying stable over, say, the last 10 years. WHBM, as a local, probably has a much better feel for that than either of us. Anyway, London has the best public transport provision in the UK by a country mile, but people who need their cars, and for whom even the excellent PT doesn't work, still need their cars and will be taking attitudes to congestion charging and ULEZ zones into account when deciding who to vote for.
Car ownership, at least here in our road, is much as it always has been - pretty much everybody. But they don't get used a lot compared to the rest of the country, even in other cities, and certainly not for mileage, although they may get used every day and thus get hit with the charge.

My car being petrol is OK; we are inside the zone. And, to be honest, I don't think that anyone living in a congested city and who uses their car a lot should choose a diesel nowadays, not even a current compliant one, when alternative petrol or electric cars are available. Having said that, it's notable that over recent years cars, overall, have been squeezed out of inner London roads, especially the major ones; the majority of traffic now is commercial - who are almost wholly diesel. It's also notable that our air quality here does not seem out of step with elsewhere. The government and EU have legislated on emissions, and to be honest you don't see many vehicles more than a few years old (and thus currently compliant, at least for petrol) on the road in central London anyway. It seems to be a revenue grab on commercial diesels who have no option, and has along the way scooped all the older cars of residents who don't do that much mileage anyway - but do maybe use them every day.

I am however hacked off with the extension of congestion charging to 24x7, when there isn't any, and when access across London is not nearly as good as weekdays, nor the typical destinations as focused in the centre. It has incidentally increased my driving across Central London. I used to go to the office by Heathrow out by M11/M25 (in morning charging time) and return evening through the centre (after charging time). Now I may as well go both ways through the centre; it's slower and costs more fuel by the M25, one way sort of OK, not both ways. Once things get going again it will be found to have damaged much of Central London leisure commerce. Notably the Night Tube has been withdrawn; Andy Byford, Transport Commissioner, said the Night Tube would not be restored anytime soon "because it didn't make money". That's fine, but don't then stiff those who come in to Central London at weekend nights by car instead. You can't have it both ways.

Incidentally, speaking of Commissioners, my onetime university colleague, Peter Hendy, former Commissioner (different university but we touched on a field trip), would I think never have tolerated this, seeing it as against normal London residents. I remember him versus the Olympics zealots in 2012. They all wanted loads of exclusive streets, all for a couple of months. Hendy, meanwhile, on the news : "The residents of London will not be deprived of their mobility for one minute longer than necessary". That's the attitude to have. And he won.

I do believe that increasing the charge times, the charge itself, and the ULEZ has been done at the worst possible time. My neighbours, with a older W-reg small Toyota, which they use just several times a week to see and carry East London relatives, have lost most of their income due to the virus (one made redundant, one furloughed/short time), are faced with a huge bill every time they drive it now, or they have to buy a new car they cannot currently afford. Khan does not realise that many people are at their wits end for money currently - most of those employed at London City airport have been made redundant, and likewise most restaurants and a number of shops across Canary Wharf have not only been closed, but given up for good. And yet they introduce the charge that is crippling for them. TfL have lost a vast amount of money on the public transport side, it's surely inappropriate to leave all their fares and concessions much as they were, and stick the big increase on road users. Very funny to the profligate TfL lot who thought it all up, none of whom by the way have lost their jobs it seems. Most of us here do not drive any significant distance each day (I'm surely the main user).

Do not delude yourself that public transport is excellent for London residents; that only really applies to journeys to/from Zone 1, inside the Circle Line. Anything else in inner and outer suburbs is a chance. Our journey to school, for example, by car, takes 10 minutes each way, and always has done (unless the Blue Bridge into Canary Wharf docks goes up for a ship, as yesterday :( ). Public transport - well over an hour. In fact by the time one has only walked to the DLR station, I can be driving back home again. And the roads are not impossibly congested, otherwise people would not do it.

I'm going to vote as I am because I don't believe this is the time to hit the population with extra costs and/or the need to buy new cars when so many have suffered loss of income. The economic devastation of the last 12 months should surely trump any political greenwash or those whit a tunnel-vision agenda.

We notably shielded last year. As some may know, I got the Coronavirus really badly in Jan/Feb this year. Very nearly hospitalised (in fact I would have been if not for me railing against it). Well done Mrs W through all this by the way :) . This was got in the ONE trip by Underground etc that was made in late December; the dates all align, medics agreed. The population of London has likewise been sensible and moved from public transport to independent cars in a big way. Roads still full; Underground/DLR pretty empty. How sensible at such a time. For Khan to introduce a measure which runs completely counter to this and forces people back to public transport just so he can make a revenue grab and squander it on things like Crossrail (opening December 2018 don't forget, with the highest paid public executives in the country managing it and telling us so) is just criminal. Yes, they have lost much money on the public transport side. That's your problem, Mayor/TfL. Not ours.

As it's a TfL scheme I'm also not clear where the road users are going to be (if Khan wins) measured - is it only on TfL roads ? In which case there will be much diversion off the main routes like the Limehouse Link, onto inappropriate rat-running. I await some maps for this.
User avatar
Big Nick
Member
Posts: 4348
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 08:27
Location: Epping, Essex

Re: London Congestion Charge Possible Expansion

Post by Big Nick »

Isleworth1961 wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 15:02
Big Nick wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 14:36 Don't forget about the Congestion Charge too. I think you are getting the CC and ULEZ mixed up. LEZ only applies to diesel HGVs.
My 2016 Nissan is clean enough to avoid the ULEZ charge (currently £12.50) but would have to pay the £15 CC. My old Focus would have been subject to both.
What engine was your Focus (diesel?)? My 2001 1.6 petrol Focus is showing as exempt ULEZ charge, but is subject to the CC.
I'm thinking of the old T-reg I had with a 1.8 petrol engine. That ticked the boxes for both Charges.
Having a cuppa wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 15:00 Exactly my point, it's rather confusing to have three separate schemes. If Sadiq did implement your concept, would it follow a classification scheme? For instance would there be signage posted on the perimeter of the zone, stating "CO2 Emissions Daily Charge £0 - under XXg/km, £10 - between XXg/km & XXg/km £15 - above XXg/km"? Or would it work differently?
They don't have this detail on the current signs. Timings might be an issue as the LEZ and ULEZ operate 'At all times', while the CC is currently 7am-10pm. That might change too as there can't be many people driving around outside those hours and reducing overnight road noise would help. Offering overnight discounts for regular delivery vehicles might come into play here.

I would include the website or app on signage for users to check their vehicle (at a safe time/place obviously).
ANPR signs could be used to flash up your reg and an estimated charge before you commit to entering the Charge area.


With regards to increased costs for ULEZ, CC and fares on TfL, I distinctly recall the Conservative Government forcing those changes on Sadiq Khan when he had to ask them for money to support TfL services. This after Boris left them with a huge deficit and major building plans to be fulfilled.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-54624961
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... nt-bailout
Scratchwood
Member
Posts: 514
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 21:44
Location: London

Re: London Congestion Charge Possible Expansion

Post by Scratchwood »

Isleworth1961 wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 15:02
Big Nick wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 14:36 Don't forget about the Congestion Charge too. I think you are getting the CC and ULEZ mixed up. LEZ only applies to diesel HGVs.
My 2016 Nissan is clean enough to avoid the ULEZ charge (currently £12.50) but would have to pay the £15 CC. My old Focus would have been subject to both.
What engine was your Focus (diesel?)? My 2001 1.6 petrol Focus is showing as exempt ULEZ charge, but is subject to the CC.
I have a similar Focus (2002) which also passes the ULEZ rules, clearly the Ford engine at the time was well ahead of the emissions rules (Euro IV was from 2004 I think)

The number of people who HAVE to to drive into the CC zone is minimal at ANY time of the day, it's a non issue politically.

The ULEZ extension to the A406/A205 IS more controversial, but of those owning cars within the area, the majority will have cars that are compliant and won't have to pay anyway. As the TfL blurb goes, they don't want people to pay the ULEZ charge, they want them to switch to cleaner vehicles.

The main people affected I imagine will be small businesses with a van which doesn't meet the rules, who either are based within the ULEZ or have to travel into it. The choice of EURO VI secondhand vans will be quite limited, and pricey
Micro The Maniac
Member
Posts: 1167
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 13:14
Location: Gone

Re: London Congestion Charge Possible Expansion

Post by Micro The Maniac »

Scratchwood wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 17:41 The number of people who HAVE to to drive into the CC zone is minimal at ANY time of the day, it's a non issue politically.
I know several businesses based within the expanded zone who have already been notified by their suppliers and service providers that each "on-site" visit will include a ULEZ surcharge... in other words, business will simply be passing on the charges to their customers.

Heating, plumbing and electrical servicing technicians (etc) cannot just hop on the tube with all their gear...
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35714
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: London Congestion Charge Possible Expansion

Post by Bryn666 »

Micro The Maniac wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 08:54
Scratchwood wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 17:41 The number of people who HAVE to to drive into the CC zone is minimal at ANY time of the day, it's a non issue politically.
I know several businesses based within the expanded zone who have already been notified by their suppliers and service providers that each "on-site" visit will include a ULEZ surcharge... in other words, business will simply be passing on the charges to their customers.

Heating, plumbing and electrical servicing technicians (etc) cannot just hop on the tube with all their gear...
There are, however, alternatives to a small van. Electric cargo bikes are now a thing, these would have the advantages of not needing much physical exertion to use, can go in bus lanes, can avoid a whacking great emissions charge, and are about £18,000 cheaper than a van to buy. They'd actually probably make more money as they could increase the number of jobs attended.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
User avatar
c2R
SABRE Wiki admin
Posts: 11155
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2002 11:01

Re: London Congestion Charge Possible Expansion

Post by c2R »

Indeed - when I'm there for business use I'll simply be recharging it to the customer, so it won't be coming out of my pocket. When I visit family just inside the North Circular, I've got a 40 year old car that I'll drive instead of my modern 2014 Volvo to avoid having to pay the charge.

The other interesting decision was not to exempt Ikea at Edmonton, which is just inside the north circular - this is likely to cause additional pollution with from East London hitting the North Circular to visit the Wembley Branch instead which is just outside...
Is there a road improvement project going on near you? Help us to document it on the SABRE Wiki - help is available in the Digest forum.
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Get involved! - see our guide to scanning and stitching maps
Post Reply