Smart Motorway court case

[WHBM]

Being the BBC, whose news team is largely made up nowadays of almost-unpaid USA university journalism course interns doing their year overseas, I wouldn't have been surprised to see it called the "curbside lane".

Absolute hogwash. Would you care to back up that unfounded nonsense?

https://graduatefog.co.uk/2019/6081/bbc ... -petition/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/careers/trainee-s ... experience

https://careers.peopleclick.eu.com/care ... Code=en-us

[RichardA35]

I see nothing in any of the links to corroborate the statement made of:
"Being the BBC, whose news team is largely made up nowadays of almost-unpaid USA university journalism course interns"

Without the context of how many journalists work for the BBC and how many of them are "almost-unpaid USA university journalism" the statement remains, at the moment, "unfounded nonsense".
I feel sure there must have been an evidential basis behind the statement otherwise why would it have been made with such authority?

[WHBM]

Well I'm sorry if I can't find in 2 minutes the exact references to this issue of the BBC taking US university course journalism interns. But I have come into direct contact with them. The BBC of course never did a story about it, and a search for BBC News interns just finds BBC stories about other interns. They are particularly prevalent on the unpopular shifts, overnight/weekends.

[Micro The Maniac]

Regardless, the description probably has zero impact on how people drive.

Apart from the prevelence of middle-lane hoggers who move out of the "slow" lane because they aren't going "slowly"

Surrey Police have reported this "excuse" as being quite a common one amongst MLHs

[booshank]

Regardless, the description probably has zero impact on how people drive.

Apart from the prevelence of middle-lane hoggers who move out of the "slow" lane because they aren't going "slowly"

Surrey Police have reported this "excuse" as being quite a common one amongst MLHs

Perhaps it is a regional thing, but I hear a lot about MLHs but rarely encounter one. Usually you'll find that lane one has enough speed limited lorries in it that unless you're happy to follow one along you need to be in the middle lane. Otherwise you'd be overtaking lorries so often as to be annoying or stuck behind one by a stream of traffic in lane two.

[Ruperts Trooper]

Regardless, the description probably has zero impact on how people drive.

Apart from the prevelence of middle-lane hoggers who move out of the "slow" lane because they aren't going "slowly"

Surrey Police have reported this "excuse" as being quite a common one amongst MLHs

How many car drivers avoid lane 1 because it's called, wrongly, the "slow" lane and how many avoid it because it's often full of HGVs and often heavily rutted by HGVs? I'd be surprised if anyone has those numbers so middle lane hoggers can't be blamed on just one factor.

[Ruperts Trooper]

Regardless, the description probably has zero impact on how people drive.

Apart from the prevelence of middle-lane hoggers who move out of the "slow" lane because they aren't going "slowly"

Surrey Police have reported this "excuse" as being quite a common one amongst MLHs

Perhaps it is a regional thing, but I hear a lot about MLHs but rarely encounter one. Usually you'll find that lane one has enough speed limited lorries in it that unless you're happy to follow one along you need to be in the middle lane. Otherwise you'd be overtaking lorries so often as to be annoying or stuck behind one by a stream of traffic in lane two.

I find plenty of lane 2/3 hoggers on 4-lane motorways during off-peak periods, especially at weekends when fewer HGVs are around.

[trickstat]

Apart from the prevelence of middle-lane hoggers who move out of the "slow" lane because they aren't going "slowly"

Surrey Police have reported this "excuse" as being quite a common one amongst MLHs

Perhaps it is a regional thing, but I hear a lot about MLHs but rarely encounter one. Usually you'll find that lane one has enough speed limited lorries in it that unless you're happy to follow one along you need to be in the middle lane. Otherwise you'd be overtaking lorries so often as to be annoying or stuck behind one by a stream of traffic in lane two.

I find plenty of lane 2/3 hoggers on 4-lane motorways during off-peak periods, especially at weekends when fewer HGVs are around.

Agreed. I did some driving on some 4 lane sections of the M25 at the weekend and there were times when it seemed that 50% of traffic was in lane 3.

[fras]

There has been no change in the law, so HGVs can used Lanes 1 to 3 on 4-lane motorways. As the SMART Motorway program rolls out so 4-lane motorways become common, I think this anomaly needs correcting quickly.

[Ruperts Trooper]

There has been no change in the law, so HGVs can used Lanes 1 to 3 on 4-lane motorways. As the SMART Motorway program rolls out so 4-lane motorways become common, I think this anomaly needs correcting quickly.

What's the anomaly? HGVs and trailers are banned from the outside lane on motorways with 3 or more lanes - as a caravanner I need to use lane 3 on a 4 lane motorway when the traffic in lanes 1 & 2 is restricted to 56 mph by the HGV limiters - if HGVs are in lane 3 as well, I just have to wait.

[Micro The Maniac]

There has been no change in the law, so HGVs can used Lanes 1 to 3 on 4-lane motorways. As the SMART Motorway program rolls out so 4-lane motorways become common, I think this anomaly needs correcting quickly.

To be honest, HGVs using lane 2 of two-lane motorways and (particularly) elephant-racing on two-lane dual-carriageways is a bigger problem than then using lane 3 on four-laners.

[WHBM]

How many car drivers avoid lane 1 because it's called, wrongly, the "slow" lane and how many avoid it because it's often full of HGVs and often heavily rutted by HGVs?

Or also because it's for ever turning off. On the M25 northern section lane 1 turns off at J27, J25, J23 and J21. In light traffic conditions, if you are going through from the A12 to Buckinghamshire that's 8 extra lane changes to do. You also have to be notably alert to the signage, which is not relevant to you, to be constantly changing back and forth. To tell the truth, it's nothing more than an extended C&D lane. I also suspect the majority, if asked, don't know the difference between gantry signage for exit from lane 1, and Lane 1 is dropped. In fact I'll bet there are regulars on here who don't know. Not everyone is a TSRGD freak.

[fras]

There has been no change in the law, so HGVs can used Lanes 1 to 3 on 4-lane motorways. As the SMART Motorway program rolls out so 4-lane motorways become common, I think this anomaly needs correcting quickly.

What's the anomaly? HGVs and trailers are banned from the outside lane on motorways with 3 or more lanes - as a caravanner I need to use lane 3 on a 4 lane motorway when the traffic in lanes 1 & 2 is restricted to 56 mph by the HGV limiters - if HGVs are in lane 3 as well, I just have to wait.

Ok, so you are happy, but many of us aren't. It just clogs up the motorway if lanes 1-3 are trucks side-by-side at 56 mph, and surely negates the purpose of going from 3 to 4 lanes ?

[Ruperts Trooper]

There has been no change in the law, so HGVs can used Lanes 1 to 3 on 4-lane motorways. As the SMART Motorway program rolls out so 4-lane motorways become common, I think this anomaly needs correcting quickly.

What's the anomaly? HGVs and trailers are banned from the outside lane on motorways with 3 or more lanes - as a caravanner I need to use lane 3 on a 4 lane motorway when the traffic in lanes 1 & 2 is restricted to 56 mph by the HGV limiters - if HGVs are in lane 3 as well, I just have to wait.

Ok, so you are happy, but many of us aren't. It just clogs up the motorway if lanes 1-3 are trucks side-by-side at 56 mph, and surely negates the purpose of going from 3 to 4 lanes ?

The purpose of going from 3 lanes to 4 was/is to increase capacity/flow for all users, not just faster cars - even as a solo motorist who observes speed limits, I have far more issues with cars not moving over after overtaking than HGVs in lane 3 of 4 - the HGVs are much better at moving over after their overtake than car drivers, thus freeing up lane 3 for those of us doing 70, which in turn frees up lane 4 for the illegals.

[Big L]

... You also have to be notably alert to the signage, which is not relevant to you, to be constantly changing back and forth...

You have to be alert to signage that isn't relevant to you even though it actually is relevant to you?

One day I will get hold of a lane 2 hogger and ask them what is so difficult about changing lanes.

[ABB125]

... You also have to be notably alert to the signage, which is not relevant to you, to be constantly changing back and forth...

You have to be alert to signage that isn't relevant to you even though it actually is relevant to you?

One day I will get hold of a lane 2 hogger and ask them what is so difficult about changing lanes.

Fairly recently I was on the M6 south of Manchester and there was a "3rd lane hogger" on the 4-lane section. This was before 0700 on a Saturday, so there wasn't much traffic around. I went into lane 4 to overtake, whilst the car in lane 4 behind me (which was going marginally quicker) pulled into lane 2 to undertake, resulting in a "hogger sandwich". Unsurprisingly, the hogger decided to abruptly accelerate to at least 80mph to get away ("I refuse to be overtaken" mentality I suspect), and both myself and the undertaking car moved over to the left, carrying on at the same speed as before.
A short while later, a 3rd lane hogger appeared; can you guess who it was? Once again I moved into lane 4 to overtake, and again they sped up. This game continued for many miles, until I gave up and briefly exceeded the speed limit to get past. They didn't try to overtake...

[Chris5156]

Well I'm sorry if I can't find in 2 minutes the exact references to this issue of the BBC taking US university course journalism interns. But I have come into direct contact with them. The BBC of course never did a story about it, and a search for BBC News interns just finds BBC stories about other interns. They are particularly prevalent on the unpopular shifts, overnight/weekends.

I’ve no doubt the BBC will take on some Americans, probably some of which are through journalism training schemes. I see nothing that backs up your claim that the news staff are “largely made up” of those people.

Like I said: hogwash.

[nowster]

As I've said before Smart Motorways will work if they are operated with smartness and all the signs are set promptly and consistently.

For example, there is not much guidance on what to do if you pass under a ringed VSL and further down the road pass under an unlit VSL sign. My take is that a blank panel means there is no sign and the limit continues in force. Others see it as being a removal of the limit. That HE often doesn't set the VSLs to show NSL at the end of such stretches would seem to confirm the incorrect interpretation. Such ambiguity is unsafe.

[Bryn666]

... You also have to be notably alert to the signage, which is not relevant to you, to be constantly changing back and forth...

You have to be alert to signage that isn't relevant to you even though it actually is relevant to you?

One day I will get hold of a lane 2 hogger and ask them what is so difficult about changing lanes.

With the notable exception of Glasgow, everywhere in Europe uses arrows to denote which lanes depart and which lanes continue through on gantries where a lane drop is present. Anyone not understanding this pan-European system shouldn't be on the road.

[someone]

Other than people who switch lanes too early (because they know a drop is coming) or too late (because they feel they should still keep left for as long as possible) I have not really seen a problem with drivers not knowing what to do about them.

I use the change to the lane divider as the indicator of when it is appropriate to leave the inside lane to stay on such a road. To me that is the point at which it effectively becomes the C or D lane as WHBM described it.

But how much of the motorway network has frequent lane drops so close together that it is safer to stay in lane two unless leaving? Of the sections I use can only think of the M3 through Surrey and parts of the M25. In those cases I do not consider it hogging, but the opposite.

The danger from middle lane hogging is it caused other traffic to weave around you. Where lane gains and drops are close together, constantly moving in and out of the lane just causes more unnecessary weaving. It is no different, to me, to staying in lane two after an overtake because you are going to overtake another vehicle a [reasonably] short distance ahead.

Anyway, it seems the American student interns agreed with me as the M1 no longer has a "slow lane."

The court heard 44-year-old Mr Mercer, from Rotherham, and Mr Murgeanu, 22, from Mansfield, had stopped in the inside lane after having a "minor bump" on the northbound carriageway of the M1, between junctions 34 and 35.