Does the A303 actually go through Dorset?

[Chris Bertram]

Let's not forget that before the big reform of 1974 there were counties, county boroughs, municipal boroughs, urban districts and rural districts, plus London boroughs and the GLC, all of which had varying levels of competence. Plus county councils had no authority over the county boroughs within their geographic county, so for instance the West Riding County Council was irrelevant to Leeds, Sheffield, Bradford, Huddersfield etc. If it's a mess now, it was a mess before.

[Steven]

If it's a mess now, it was a mess before.

That's true.

We are slowly backing away from the 1974 changes back to something more similar to that which came before in terms of a mix of two-tier and single-tier (and all the urban-based "unitary authorities" are County Boroughs in all but name) but without the strange MB/UD/RD differences, where the County Councils had varying responsibilities across each.

[Chris Bertram]

If it's a mess now, it was a mess before.

That's true.

We are slowly backing away from the 1974 changes back to something more similar to that which came before in terms of a mix of two-tier and single-tier (and all the urban-based "unitary authorities" are County Boroughs in all but name) but without the strange MB/UD/RD differences, where the County Councils had varying responsibilities across each.

Oh, and I forgot ILEA (Inner London Education Authority), which was a continuation of the Education committee of the former London County Council, and was a sub-committee of the GLC but only for the Inner London boroughs, with the Outer London boroughs running their own schools. ILEA even survived the abolition of the GLC, but not for long.

[Steven]

If it's a mess now, it was a mess before.

That's true.

We are slowly backing away from the 1974 changes back to something more similar to that which came before in terms of a mix of two-tier and single-tier (and all the urban-based "unitary authorities" are County Boroughs in all but name) but without the strange MB/UD/RD differences, where the County Councils had varying responsibilities across each.

Oh, and I forgot ILEA (Inner London Education Authority), which was a continuation of the Education committee of the former London County Council, and was a sub-committee of the GLC but only for the Inner London boroughs, with the Outer London boroughs running their own schools. ILEA even survived the abolition of the GLC, but not for long.

Yes, the 1965 changes made as much mess as the 1974 ones.

[someone]

Let's not forget that before the big reform of 1974 there were counties, county boroughs, municipal boroughs, urban districts and rural districts, plus London boroughs and the GLC, all of which had varying levels of competence.

There were also, briefly, rural boroughs. But before those reforms, the things you mentioned were more clearly defined that the law could cope with them. It was complicated rather than messy. What we have now is messy but simple.

Just to illustrate, this is a section of the law which makes a council a highway authority:

( 1A ) Transport for London is the traffic authority for every GLA road.

(2) In Greater London, the council of the London borough or the Common Council of the City of London are the traffic authority for all roads in the borough or, as the case may be, in the City which are not GLA roads and for which the Secretary of State or a strategic highways company is not the traffic authority.

(3) In England and Wales outside Greater London, the council of the county or metropolitan district are the traffic authority for all roads in the county or, as the case may be, the district for which the Secretary of State or a strategic highways company is not the traffic authority.

It was amended on the creation of TfL and Highways England. The interpretations of the act were also amended so that any reference to a county would refer to a county borough in Wales. But for reforms in England nothing was done to update it to cope with unitary authorities

So we have a law which says every non-metropolitan county must have a council.

So we make Bournemouth, Poole, and Christchurch into county just so we can exempt it from this leagl requirement.

But because laws assign responsibilities to county councils, we also have to make laws which allow districts which represent whole counties but which lack a council so act as a county council for the purposes of those laws.

But those laws are not referenced in the places where needed, such as the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 which applies to county councils, or in the acts establishing new structures, such as the The Bournemouth, Dorset and Poole (Structural Changes) Order 2018 which abolishes them.

Instead you just have to know there is a law out there which means that a district council is sometimes legally considered a county council. Otherwise Dorset would not have a highway authority if you base it on just the laws which created Dorset and assigns highway authorities. I cannot even remember which law it was that closed that loophole.

That is the what makes the system such a mess, instead of creating a legal definition of a unitary authority and inserting that into the R.T.R.A., they just made exemptions and created loopholes they then needed to close.

The structure is very simple, but the way it has been done is awful.

[someone]

Oh, and I forgot ILEA (Inner London Education Authority), which was a continuation of the Education committee of the former London County Council, and was a sub-committee of the GLC but only for the Inner London boroughs, with the Outer London boroughs running their own schools. ILEA even survived the abolition of the GLC, but not for long.

That made sense. However the G.L.C. were the waste management authority for Greater London. So when it was abolished four new authorities were created.

North London, East London, and West London authorities manage waste for the outer London boroughs north of the Thames, including Richmond upon Thames.

Western Riverside manages it for the four west-most inner London boroughs.

In the other eleven boroughs and the City, the borough council is the waste management authority.

[Richardf]

It certainly does! I remember using the road before the Bourton Zeals bypass and as a Dorset native it was good to see the Dorset sign on the A303, however brief the visit the road makes to the county. The bypass route actually means more of the a303 runs through Dorset, and its a bit of a shame that isnt recognised with sighnage. Those in the know will know though!

[Vierwielen]

Let's not forget that before the big reform of 1974 there were counties, county boroughs, municipal boroughs, urban districts and rural districts, plus London boroughs and the GLC, all of which had varying levels of competence.

There were also, briefly, rural boroughs. But before those reforms, the things you mentioned were more clearly defined that the law could cope with them. It was complicated rather than messy. What we have now is messy but simple.

Just to illustrate, this is a section of the law which makes a council a highway authority:

( 1A ) Transport for London is the traffic authority for every GLA road.

(2) In Greater London, the council of the London borough or the Common Council of the City of London are the traffic authority for all roads in the borough or, as the case may be, in the City which are not GLA roads and for which the Secretary of State or a strategic highways company is not the traffic authority.

(3) In England and Wales outside Greater London, the council of the county or metropolitan district are the traffic authority for all roads in the county or, as the case may be, the district for which the Secretary of State or a strategic highways company is not the traffic authority.

It was amended on the creation of TfL and Highways England. The interpretations of the act were also amended so that any reference to a county would refer to a county borough in Wales. But for reforms in England nothing was done to update it to cope with unitary authorities

So we have a law which says every non-metropolitan county must have a council.

So we make Bournemouth, Poole, and Christchurch into county just so we can exempt it from this leagl requirement.

But because laws assign responsibilities to county councils, we also have to make laws which allow districts which represent whole counties but which lack a council so act as a county council for the purposes of those laws.

But those laws are not referenced in the places where needed, such as the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 which applies to county councils, or in the acts establishing new structures, such as the The Bournemouth, Dorset and Poole (Structural Changes) Order 2018 which abolishes them.

Instead you just have to know there is a law out there which means that a district council is sometimes legally considered a county council. Otherwise Dorset would not have a highway authority if you base it on just the laws which created Dorset and assigns highway authorities. I cannot even remember which law it was that closed that loophole.

That is the what makes the system such a mess, instead of creating a legal definition of a unitary authority and inserting that into the R.T.R.A., they just made exemptions and created loopholes they then needed to close.

The structure is very simple, but the way it has been done is awful.

WE must remeber that county councils do not just look after roads, they also look after education, social services, libraries, police, fire to mention a few. in some cases the police departments of two or more counties have been merged for efficiency's sake.

In the 1990's I was a school governor. The role of county councils vis-a-vis desitrict councils was being assessed by government. SInce it was assumed that I mgth have some influence (or at any rate put forward some valid points), I recevied promotional material from both the local district council and country council. The message that I received was "Moving as much control as possibler to county/district [delete where not applicabele] promoites local democracy. A few years later I had a contract where I had to be aware of the sizes of the various Met Police divisions. These two exercises convinced me that each service had an optimum size in terms of number of people served and in terms of area served and that in some cases there was a benefit in a single-tier authority hanling all the services and in other cases in a two-tier authority handling the services. I hesitiate however to actually allocate numbers to support my hypothesis.

[John McAdam]

...
The structure is very simple, but the way it has been done is awful.

Having read your learned posts in this thread... blimey, what a spectacular statutory mess it is!

[John McAdam]

[...] So, as the name of the thread suggests, my question is, does the A303 enter Dorset at any point or is it a falsehood?

As per this Dorset Council webpage...

In Dorset, Highways England are responsible for the:

* A303 through Dorset - a small section in the north of the county at Bourton (between Somerset and Wiltshire counties)
* A31 from Bere Regis, through Ferndown and Ringwood towards the M27 and Southampton
* A35 from Bere Regis, through Dorchester and Bridport into Devon towards Honiton

[Richardf]

[...] So, as the name of the thread suggests, my question is, does the A303 enter Dorset at any point or is it a falsehood?

As per this Dorset Council webpage...

In Dorset, Highways England are responsible for the:

* A303 through Dorset - a small section in the north of the county at Bourton (between Somerset and Wiltshire counties)
* A31 from Bere Regis, through Ferndown and Ringwood towards the M27 and Southampton
* A35 from Bere Regis, through Dorchester and Bridport into Devon towards Honiton

Need to show that last bit to the good people of Dorchester who seem to think their bypass is looked after by the council not HE. They all blame the council when there's a problem with it!

[Micro The Maniac]

Need to show that last bit to the good people of Dorchester who seem to think their bypass is looked after by the council not HE. They all blame the council when there's a problem with it!

It is not just the good people of Dorchester who fail to understand the distinction between HE- and local-authority-maintained.

[Richardf]

Need to show that last bit to the good people of Dorchester who seem to think their bypass is looked after by the council not HE. They all blame the council when there's a problem with it!

It is not just the good people of Dorchester who fail to understand the distinction between HE- and local-authority-maintained.

[Steven]

[...] So, as the name of the thread suggests, my question is, does the A303 enter Dorset at any point or is it a falsehood?

As per this Dorset Council webpage...

Dorset Council's area isn't the same as Dorset...