Southern Motor Road

[SteveA30]

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov. ... c7c9b46da5

Never heard of this one before,

'Perhaps the most exciting of all the deposited plans is the 1928 scheme for a Southern Motor Road from London to Brighton (no. 287). If the scheme had been realized it would have provided a 37 mile English motorway before the autobahnen of Hitler were constructed and at a time when our own roads had not even a white line along the middle. Although the plan does not give the road's intended width, nor indicate if a dual carriageway was proposed, it anticipates a modern motorway in all the features which are represented. Beginning at Tolworth in Surrey, the road was to ignore the Mole valley at Dorking and tunnel 1¼ miles under the North Downs at Walton-on-the-Hill; then swinging west to avoid the high ground of St. Leonard's Forest, it was to skirt the eastern fringe of Horsham and cut through Cowfold and Twineham to join the existing Brighton road at Pyecombe Hill. No gradient was to be steeper than 1 in 40 (which is negotiable by a train), all towns were to be by-passed and all road junctions avoided. If the road had been built it would have solved for ever the problems of the modern A.23 on a bank holiday.'

[Steven]

Yes, there were two London to Brighton motorways planned, and this one was the second.

It was also later than the Northern and Western Motorway, but was of a similar vein.

[M4 Cardiff]

Thank you for a most interesting link there.

[Chris5156]

I believe I have a copy of the line plan for this road at the Balcombe tunnel, from a day many years ago when I went to inspect all the plans at the Parliamentary Archives. The actual layout of the road was never planned (that was what I hoped to see), just a centre line and a maximum extent of deviation, which was the standard level of detail submitted to Parliament for railway proposals at that time. The accompanying documents held at Westminster include references that strongly suggest it was being planned as a railway for cars, including mentions of two "tracks" in each direction. A railway would, of course, be the nearest comparable thing at the time, and presumably it was being planned by people whose background was in railway engineering.

[Steven]

The accompanying documents held at Westminster include references that strongly suggest it was being planned as a railway for cars, including mentions of two "tracks" in each direction. A railway would, of course, be the nearest comparable thing at the time, and presumably it was being planned by people whose background was in railway engineering.

That's a common theme amongst the early motorway plans - they were proposed using existing legislation for light railways as there was no concept of a Special Road back then, and motorways were to be tolled, and hence needed their access controlling in a manner that simply wasn't possible for a "road" until the Special Roads Act came into being.

[Truvelo]

I have a plan of the A23/A27 junction as a three level stackabout with a very art deco style of writing. I wonder if this is from the same era and may be related to this scheme?

[Ross Spur]

Mr. G. P. Blizard, J.P., F.C.I.I., the promotor of the Scheme, gave a lecture to Horsham District Chamber of Trade on 20 December 1928 (as he had also done in 1925) and gave quite a bit of detail (reported in West Sussex County Times). There would be six junctions on this road in addition to the termini. He envisaged Hosham as a hub with future roads to Portsmouth and Southampton.

"He spoke of motor road developments in Germany. Italy and Spain. The last-named country was, he said, spending nine million pounds on two enormous motor roads. The first motor-way in this country - really only a toy, he said, compared with the big schemes afloat- was that from Bournemouth to Swanage. They had an arterial scheme for the whole of the country."

"The carriage way would be 40ft. wide. There was to be a continual stream of traffic both ways, with nothing to interfere in the way of crossways, hills or curves. The maximum gradient would be one in 40; the minimum curve in the road would be a quarter of a mile; the width between the fences (unclimbable) 100 ft. with 10ft. reserved for widening at any future date, and another 20ft. on either side for planting trees and shrubs. There would be 140,000 planted. There were to be constructed three river bridges, three railway bridges. 45 road bridges, 100 accommodation bridges for farmers, 50 footpath bridges."

"The road would be 36 miles in length, commencing at a junction with the Kingston by-pass road near Tolworth, with the first junction on the Epsom-Ashtead road. The next junction would be a car park which they proposed to use both for those who patronised the Epsom Downs, not for health (laughter) and for the chars-a-banc which took children to enjoy the beauties of Epsom and Ashtead. The next big junction would be at Buckland on the East-West road, running from Dorking to Reigate, but before this was reached there would be a tunnel of about a mile in length, the construction which would give work to something like 300 or 400 miners. The next junction would be at Newdigate, then at Horsham north (near Roffey Corner), next at Horsham south (near Coolhurst) and then just below Cowfold; The final terminus was at Dale Hill which abutted on to the 60ft. road, which the East Sussex County Council had constructed between Pyecombe and Brighton.

Does this fit in with A23/A27?

Like the car park idea... forerunner of the Rest Area. I assume there would have been a gap through the unclimbable fences to reach the Downs.

Ian

[SteveA30]

The first motor-way in this country - really only a toy, he said, compared with the big schemes afloat- was that from Bournemouth to Swanage. They had an arterial scheme for the whole of the country."

Any plans of this? Presumably to bypass the ferry crossing. Was it a bridge, tunnel or, going the long way round via Wareham? I guess Sandbanks was largely undeveloped then so, plenty of space to put a 'motorway all the way along the peninsula. No environmental considerations then.

[Steven]

The first motor-way in this country - really only a toy, he said, compared with the big schemes afloat- was that from Bournemouth to Swanage. They had an arterial scheme for the whole of the country."

Any plans of this? Presumably to bypass the ferry crossing. Was it a bridge, tunnel or, going the long way round via Wareham? I guess Sandbanks was largely undeveloped then so, plenty of space to put a 'motorway all the way along the peninsula. No environmental considerations then.

They're talking about the Studland Motor Road.

[Chris5156]

The first motor-way in this country - really only a toy, he said, compared with the big schemes afloat- was that from Bournemouth to Swanage. They had an arterial scheme for the whole of the country."

Any plans of this? Presumably to bypass the ferry crossing. Was it a bridge, tunnel or, going the long way round via Wareham? I guess Sandbanks was largely undeveloped then so, plenty of space to put a 'motorway all the way along the peninsula. No environmental considerations then.

Sheesh, does nobody read Roads.org.uk any more?

[M4Simon]

The first motor-way in this country - really only a toy, he said, compared with the big schemes afloat- was that from Bournemouth to Swanage. They had an arterial scheme for the whole of the country."

Any plans of this? Presumably to bypass the ferry crossing. Was it a bridge, tunnel or, going the long way round via Wareham? I guess Sandbanks was largely undeveloped then so, plenty of space to put a 'motorway all the way along the peninsula. No environmental considerations then.

Sheesh, does nobody read Roads.org.uk any more?

I'm still looking for that really good CBRD site. Where did that go???



Simon

[SteveA30]

Natch I knew about the Studland Motor Road already but, it was the Bournemouth motorway reference that threw me. Indeed Sheesh puts it into context. (there seem to be a lot of road sites called Sheesh....)

"A motor road (Work No. 1) 2 miles 7 furlongs 7.50 chains or thereabouts in length wholly in the Parish of Studland in the Rural District of Wareham and Purbeck commencing at South Haven Point and terminating by a junction with the public road leading from Studland to Swanage."

Turns out the question about a bridge/tunnel wasn't far off the mark either. The one proposed would have been a Dartford style blot over Poole Harbour.

So... why was the Forth Road Bridge called that? Surely it was the Second one.

[Chris Bertram]

So... why was the Forth Road Bridge called that? Surely it was the Second one.

Because the first three fell down, of course