A1(M) Moto MSA near Ripon rejected

[Mark Hewitt]

Basically, no. The early days called for a maximum space of 12 miles but all this went out the window years ago. If you can prove the demand is there you'll get a chance to build.

That said, the ratio of failed to successful proposals still seems to be quite high. I suppose the number of really good potential sites is quite limited.

Usually fail because opposition to the design or fears of killing local businesses or effect on existing roads kills them - some sites like Wetherby are absolute disasters in terms of traffic but they are absolutely essential from a safety perspective.

I can vouch for that personally. Flight back from Madeira and driving back home from Stansted. Really quite weary around Wetherby, popped into the services to stretch my legs and was fine after that.

[Mark Hewitt]

Am I right in thinking that there's now a presumption against building MSAs off junctions favouring building online?

[roadtester]

Am I right in thinking that there's now a presumption against building MSAs off junctions favouring building online?

I'm not sure what current policy is but in the UK we've tended to have two set-ups:

1) "one each side" pairs of online MSAs, sometimes connected by a bridge, sometimes not, and

2) single site MSAs off junction roundabouts.

I'm surprised we haven't seen more like Cobham - online with own slips/junction but with traffic from both directions sharing a single site.

PS which I see is the set up for the newly approved Kirby Hill.

[Chris5156]

The place they should have built a service area was J42 to replace the old Selby Fork Services on the A1 (now A63) some of which still exists.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.76585 ... 8192?hl=en

I agree that's a better junction for a service area in terms of how busy it is, and how much space there is for a service area. The problem with Selby Fork is that it's less attractive to MSA operators because it's south of the M1 junction, so there will be much less passing trade. I suspect that's why Wetherby ended up being developed.

[Debaser]

Am I right in thinking that there's now a presumption against building MSAs off junctions favouring building online?

Last time I looked both of those options was fine - as long as the access was directly off a GSJ, but what wasn't preferred was the Leeming services layout where a local road needs to be used to access the site.

[A303Chris]

Government approves A1 service station after fourth appeal in 25 years

https://thestrayferret.co.uk/government ... -25-years/

That's one expensive MSA as it is going to have it's own dumbbell GSJ.

How many years of traffic management on the A1(M) is this going to cause

[KeithW]

Government approves A1 service station after fourth appeal in 25 years

https://thestrayferret.co.uk/government ... -25-years/

That's one expensive MSA as it is going to have it's own dumbbell GSJ.

How many years of traffic management on the A1(M) is this going to cause

Not as many as you think I suspect. its wide open D3M, AADt is about 50k, the old A1 southbound lane is a LAR that can handle construction traffic and it looks like the B6265 will provide the rear access.

[Bryn666]

Government approves A1 service station after fourth appeal in 25 years

https://thestrayferret.co.uk/government ... -25-years/

That's one expensive MSA as it is going to have it's own dumbbell GSJ.

How many years of traffic management on the A1(M) is this going to cause

Can't be any worse than Cobham which required the entire M25 to diverted offline to build the underpass.

[jackal]

That's one expensive MSA as it is going to have it's own dumbbell GSJ.

£40m according to local press.

Though they've cheaped out with a roundabout rather than loop it looks good to me:



Dedicated access and well spaced between J48 and J49. A19 traffic has merged in at this point so it's as good as having it at J49, and much better than the Ripon/J50 proposal.

https://motorwayservicesonline.co.uk/Kirby_Hill

[Chris5156]

Very good to see an MSA with its own access point and not tacked on to a junction. Very sensible and it will be repaid in time, even if the setup costs are higher.

I rather like that the diversion of the Leeming Lane LAR puts it back on its historic course for a short distance NE of the new junction!

[Bryn666]

Very good to see an MSA with its own access point and not tacked on to a junction. Very sensible and it will be repaid in time, even if the setup costs are higher.

I rather like that the diversion of the Leeming Lane LAR puts it back on its historic course for a short distance NE of the new junction!

My only comment is it suffers from the left turn being the right turn off a roundabout which will cause a bit of confusion. A simple dumbbell may have been a better choice - or shorten the overbridge by having the northbound exit branch off the road that goes over the bridge.

It's a bit like the plans for the Denham MSA with a lot of extra complexity that seems to be avoidable.

[Chris5156]

My only comment is it suffers from the left turn being the right turn off a roundabout which will cause a bit of confusion. A simple dumbbell may have been a better choice - or shorten the overbridge by having the northbound exit branch off the road that goes over the bridge.

Roundabouts, roundabouts everywhere!

An alternate layout is on the news article linked upthread, which has a standard dumbbell interchange and a link road to the (third) roundabout providing access to the car parks. I wonder if that's the revised version.

[wrinkly]

Sorry, which is the actual proposed layout, the one in the map at stu's link or the one in jackal's post?

[Bryn666]

Sorry, which is the actual proposed layout, the one in the map at stu's link or the one in jackal's post?

I'm guessing we'd have to find the planning application. The version in the link shows a pointless link road which could have had direct service area roads coming off the dumbbell.

Gosh, I'm picky today. Maybe I'm just utterly fed up of crap highway design.

[jackal]

I just pulled the image from the linked motorwayservicesonline page. The other image could well be more accurate.

[roadtester]

I see the report says this MSA is being done by Applegreen but is it Applegreen itself, or Welcome Break, in which Applegreen reportedly took a majority stake?

If they really are doing it as Applegreen, rather than through WB, is this the first U.K. Applegreen MSA in the U.K. as such?

Their Irish MSAs and non-MSA U.K. outlets seem more attractive than the average, which bodes reasonably well for the standard of the new site.

[Stevie D]

That's one expensive MSA as it is going to have it's own dumbbell GSJ.

Would building a dumbbell junction be more expensive than building (and maintaining) a whole second site as was traditional at all MSAs for many years?

[NICK 647063]

Fantastic news and with Catterick in planning, Selby Fork in planning and the new Leeds one we have many more choices in the area for motorists.

[KeithW]

Fantastic news and with Catterick in planning, Selby Fork in planning and the new Leeds one we have many more choices in the area for motorists.

Where did you hear Selby Fork was in planning ?

[stu531]

As you'd imagine there's quite a bit of local dissent, but there is support for it too. Here's a report from our other local news source.

Why I think this is right (and what's reflected in what Nick's saying) is that, the area around here (Dishforth-Aberford) is a kind of 'hour away' from Newcastle and Manchester. In other words, it's appropriate for a toilet stop or bite. It makes sense to have alternatives in this area. Wetherby is often jam-packed; conversely, Leeming is quite a bit away from the carriageway. Boroughbridge (which has a couple of decent coffee shops now) is probably the only reasonable alternative in the area.