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Stevie D wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 22:58
It would not be difficult to build a new MSA at Dishforth and provide access to/from A1(M)(N), A1(M)(S) and A19. Here's one I made earlier!
Well here is one problem , at the bottom of the slip off the A1(M) leading to the A168 you show a slip to the left leading to the Northbound on slip. This is what it looks like on the ground. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.14884 ... 312!8i6656
Lets suppose you do a lot of excavation you end up with a flat junction or at best mini roundabout on the Dishforth Road which seems less than optimal for a pair of Motorway slip roads. I wouldnt fancy making that right turn driving a 40 ton HGV even if you could clearly see traffic heading west on the Dishforth Road - which you cannot.
The next problem is that if you are on the A1(M) and want to get to the Service Area from the A168 the elevations are wrong. The northern dumbell on the A168 is metres higher than the field you want to put the MSA on.
You can see this quite well from the Rainton Road here, the A168 is ahead and the field to the right. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.15565 ... 312!8i6656
Physically you could build a ramp but getting approval might he interesting.
Baldersby off J50 would be much better place to build an MSA. There is no need to provide services on the A168/A19 as there are already service areas on both sides of the A168 and A19 https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.19533 ... 384!8i8192
Though you could put the missing slip road here, where the levels with the A168 and the spur seem to be less different: https://goo.gl/maps/4MmuZuUrWdQ1ecRc8
You'd still have the issue of the traffic exiting the services and rejoining the A1 northbound though, that right turn would definitely not be easy for a lot of HGV traffic.
C, E flat and G go into a bar. The barman says "sorry, we don't serve minors". So E flat walks off, leaving C and G to share an open fifth between them.
Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Stevie D wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 22:58
It would not be difficult to build a new MSA at Dishforth and provide access to/from A1(M)(N), A1(M)(S) and A19. Here's one I made earlier!
Well here is one problem , at the bottom of the slip off the A1(M) leading to the A168 you show a slip to the left leading to the Northbound on slip. This is what it looks like on the ground. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.14884 ... 312!8i6656
Lets suppose you do a lot of excavation you end up with a flat junction or at best mini roundabout on the Dishforth Road which seems less than optimal for a pair of Motorway slip roads. I wouldnt fancy making that right turn driving a 40 ton HGV even if you could clearly see traffic heading west on the Dishforth Road - which you cannot.
The next problem is that if you are on the A1(M) and want to get to the Service Area from the A168 the elevations are wrong. The northern dumbell on the A168 is metres higher than the field you want to put the MSA on.
You can see this quite well from the Rainton Road here, the A168 is ahead and the field to the right. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.15565 ... 312!8i6656
Physically you could build a ramp but getting approval might he interesting.
Baldersby off J50 would be much better place to build an MSA. There is no need to provide services on the A168/A19 as there are already service areas on both sides of the A168 and A19 https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.19533 ... 384!8i8192
It would be pretty trivial to blast a path off the slip road, given that they've already excavated a similar but much bigger line to build that slip road in the first place. And on my sketch map, I'd replaced the flat junction where it meets the existing road network and the slip back up to A1(M)(N) with a roundabout. The vertical alignment is no worse than Doncaster North, which wasn't a barrier there. The existing "services" on the A168/A19 at Thirsk and Ingleby are incredibly rudimentary, just a petrol station and a small café, with entrance/exits that are hopelessly sub-standard – neither are remotely suitable for an expressway, especially for HGVs – the next proper service station is at Wolviston, which is 52 miles from Wetherby.
DavidBrown wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 15:24Is Wetherby a disaster in terms of traffic though only because it's the only service area for a considerable distance? J46 I would fairly safely say would be/was a very quiet junction by most standards if it wasn't for the services. Relieve the pressure on Wetherby services somewhat, and I don't see any reason for any traffic issues there.
I think it's a combinaton of (a) it's the only service station for a long way in either direction so it attracts a lot of traffic, (ii) it's a single site so all northbound and southbound traffic is using it, and (3) they cut corners on the design and spec, with poor access and circulation. While it can be busy getting back out onto the roundabout, it doesn't seem to be anywhere near as bad as some others – Birchanger Green springs to mind – the problem seems to be the internal design more than anything else, and it simply not being up to the job of meeting demand.
Stevie D wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 22:58
It would not be difficult to build a new MSA at Dishforth and provide access to/from A1(M)(N), A1(M)(S) and A19. Here's one I made earlier!
Well here is one problem , at the bottom of the slip off the A1(M) leading to the A168 you show a slip to the left leading to the Northbound on slip. This is what it looks like on the ground. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.14884 ... 312!8i6656
Lets suppose you do a lot of excavation you end up with a flat junction or at best mini roundabout on the Dishforth Road which seems less than optimal for a pair of Motorway slip roads. I wouldnt fancy making that right turn driving a 40 ton HGV even if you could clearly see traffic heading west on the Dishforth Road - which you cannot.
The next problem is that if you are on the A1(M) and want to get to the Service Area from the A168 the elevations are wrong. The northern dumbell on the A168 is metres higher than the field you want to put the MSA on.
You can see this quite well from the Rainton Road here, the A168 is ahead and the field to the right. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.15565 ... 312!8i6656
Physically you could build a ramp but getting approval might he interesting.
Baldersby off J50 would be much better place to build an MSA. There is no need to provide services on the A168/A19 as there are already service areas on both sides of the A168 and A19 https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.19533 ... 384!8i8192
It would be pretty trivial to blast a path off the slip road, given that they've already excavated a similar but much bigger line to build that slip road in the first place. And on my sketch map, I'd replaced the flat junction where it meets the existing road network and the slip back up to A1(M)(N) with a roundabout. The vertical alignment is no worse than Doncaster North, which wasn't a barrier there. The existing "services" on the A168/A19 at Thirsk and Ingleby are incredibly rudimentary, just a petrol station and a small café, with entrance/exits that are hopelessly sub-standard – neither are remotely suitable for an expressway, especially for HGVs – the next proper service station is at Wolviston, which is 52 miles from Wetherby.
Trivial is pushing it = as has been said, you’d need to move a lot of earth from right beside the A1M. It looks a neat solution but I’m really not sure its feasible in the real world.
I’m not saying it’s impossible, just can’t see it happening personally.
DavidBrown wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 15:24Is Wetherby a disaster in terms of traffic though only because it's the only service area for a considerable distance? J46 I would fairly safely say would be/was a very quiet junction by most standards if it wasn't for the services. Relieve the pressure on Wetherby services somewhat, and I don't see any reason for any traffic issues there.
I think it's a combinaton of (a) it's the only service station for a long way in either direction so it attracts a lot of traffic, (ii) it's a single site so all northbound and southbound traffic is using it, and (3) they cut corners on the design and spec, with poor access and circulation. While it can be busy getting back out onto the roundabout, it doesn't seem to be anywhere near as bad as some others – Birchanger Green springs to mind – the problem seems to be the internal design more than anything else, and it simply not being up to the job of meeting demand.
I think that it's right that Wetherby is overloaded because other facilities nearby are sparse, and that the pressures would ease if one or more new MSAs were opened in that area. But this is where the interests of customers and operators diverge. Customers would benefit from having more facilities and the pressure on each site being eased, but any affected operator of an existing site probably just sees a hit to its ROI, so will do anything to fight any new openings.
Well here is one problem , at the bottom of the slip off the A1(M) leading to the A168 you show a slip to the left leading to the Northbound on slip. This is what it looks like on the ground. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.14884 ... 312!8i6656
Lets suppose you do a lot of excavation you end up with a flat junction or at best mini roundabout on the Dishforth Road which seems less than optimal for a pair of Motorway slip roads. I wouldnt fancy making that right turn driving a 40 ton HGV even if you could clearly see traffic heading west on the Dishforth Road - which you cannot.
The next problem is that if you are on the A1(M) and want to get to the Service Area from the A168 the elevations are wrong. The northern dumbell on the A168 is metres higher than the field you want to put the MSA on.
You can see this quite well from the Rainton Road here, the A168 is ahead and the field to the right. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.15565 ... 312!8i6656
Physically you could build a ramp but getting approval might he interesting.
Baldersby off J50 would be much better place to build an MSA. There is no need to provide services on the A168/A19 as there are already service areas on both sides of the A168 and A19 https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.19533 ... 384!8i8192
It would be pretty trivial to blast a path off the slip road, given that they've already excavated a similar but much bigger line to build that slip road in the first place. And on my sketch map, I'd replaced the flat junction where it meets the existing road network and the slip back up to A1(M)(N) with a roundabout. The vertical alignment is no worse than Doncaster North, which wasn't a barrier there. The existing "services" on the A168/A19 at Thirsk and Ingleby are incredibly rudimentary, just a petrol station and a small café, with entrance/exits that are hopelessly sub-standard – neither are remotely suitable for an expressway, especially for HGVs – the next proper service station is at Wolviston, which is 52 miles from Wetherby.
Trivial is pushing it = as has been said, you’d need to move a lot of earth from right beside the A1M. It looks a neat solution but I’m really not sure its feasible in the real world.
I’m not saying it’s impossible, just can’t see it happening personally.
Move the diverge further towards the A1(M) mainline from the south, run along the top of the cutting to the west side, it's really not an engineering impossibility at all.
Bryn Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already. She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Stevie D wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 17:39
It would be pretty trivial to blast a path off the slip road, given that they've already excavated a similar but much bigger line to build that slip road in the first place. And on my sketch map, I'd replaced the flat junction where it meets the existing road network and the slip back up to A1(M)(N) with a roundabout. The vertical alignment is no worse than Doncaster North, which wasn't a barrier there. The existing "services" on the A168/A19 at Thirsk and Ingleby are incredibly rudimentary, just a petrol station and a small café, with entrance/exits that are hopelessly sub-standard – neither are remotely suitable for an expressway, especially for HGVs – the next proper service station is at Wolviston, which is 52 miles from Wetherby.
Trivial is pushing it = as has been said, you’d need to move a lot of earth from right beside the A1M. It looks a neat solution but I’m really not sure its feasible in the real world.
I’m not saying it’s impossible, just can’t see it happening personally.
Move the diverge further towards the A1(M) mainline from the south, run along the top of the cutting to the west side, it's really not an engineering impossibility at all.
Which would be why I specifically said it's not impossible.... You could move the diverge, but that would increase landtake. I think it would be financial reasons that would stop this, not engineering.
B1040 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 19:38
They were queuing onto the road when we might have stopped at Scotch Corner at the end of August.
I smiled at the thought of motorists all driving into the middle of Ripon to pause their journeys. There would be a lot of congestion.
When I break a journey, I quite like using local facilities. Parking has to be free, or there has to be a good bookshop next to the cafe. I also don't want to go too far off piste
We stopped at the retail park at Catterick Garrison, a Google hit my wife found for food places as we were approaching the A1 from the A66. Plenty of parking and lots of choice of places to eat.
Fenlander wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:35We stopped at the retail park at Catterick Garrison, a Google hit my wife found for food places as we were approaching the A1 from the A66. Plenty of parking and lots of choice of places to eat.
Catterick Garrison is an area we don't talk about so much on Sabre, but the roads around there are interesting. There's a reasonable population there, but of course they're pretty much armed forces personnel. Wikipedia reckons a population of 25000, so it's a medium sized town in effect. It's very easy to get to now that J52 has been built. Roads are generally of a decent quality - and many of the roads to the south of it carry a number of tanks that operate on them.
Back on subject though, yeah - it's probably the most substantial place that's not *too* far off the A1(M). Richmond is a bit more awkward to get to, to/from the south; Bedale, Catterick Village and Leeming are small.
Not sure if this is the most relevant thread, but Moto, the operator of Scotch Corner, Barton and Leeming Bar has obected to the proposed MSA at Catterick:
roadtester wrote: ↑Sun Feb 07, 2021 21:06
Not sure if this is the most relevant thread, but Moto, the operator of Scotch Corner, Barton and Leeming Bar has obected to the proposed MSA at Catterick:
roadtester wrote: ↑Sun Feb 07, 2021 21:06
Not sure if this is the most relevant thread, but Moto, the operator of Scotch Corner, Barton and Leeming Bar has obected to the proposed MSA at Catterick:
If Moto have the permission to rebuild Barton then why haven't they? It's a free market, if RoadChef can prove their offering is viable why shouldn't they be allowed to build?
The lack of any decent motorway grade provision on that bit of the A1(M) has been a joke for nearly a decade.
Bryn Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already. She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Bryn666 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 14:36
If Moto have the permission to rebuild Barton then why haven't they? It's a free market, if RoadChef can prove their offering is viable why shouldn't they be allowed to build?
The lack of any decent motorway grade provision on that bit of the A1(M) has been a joke for nearly a decade.
Yes - Moto has Scotch Corner, Barton and Leeming Bar. Their objections would have more force if they had done anything at all to bring those up to a decent modern standard.
Bryn666 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 14:36
If Moto have the permission to rebuild Barton then why haven't they? It's a free market, if RoadChef can prove their offering is viable why shouldn't they be allowed to build?
The lack of any decent motorway grade provision on that bit of the A1(M) has been a joke for nearly a decade.
Yes - Moto has Scotch Corner, Barton and Leeming Bar. Their objections would have more force if they had done anything at all to bring those up to a decent modern standard.
Exactly - that's why I'd rather stop at the Exelby place than any of the above, which are all somewhat run down and dilapidated. Given the killing on fuel they must make, Moto could do with a bit of investment in their service areas....
I try not to use any of them and stop at Morrisons at Boroughbridge, if it’s open obviously. I’ve stopped at Leeming Bar at MacDonalds when Morrisons has been closed.
J59 of the A1(M) has unofficial services on the A167 that I have used.
Every Moto I've ever stopped at seems to have been a bit small for the potential trade. I wouldn't claim to have sampled a majority of them or even to be a regular user.
Is my view matched by others?
Only good thing about moto is my 10% discount for AA membership.
DavidBrown wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 15:24
Is Wetherby a disaster in terms of traffic though only because it's the only service area for a considerable distance? J46 I would fairly safely say would be/was a very quiet junction by most standards if it wasn't for the services. Relieve the pressure on Wetherby services somewhat, and I don't see any reason for any traffic issues there.
Stevie's idea for Dishforth would work well, the only busy movement at J49 is freeflow, and the rest of the junction complex is as dead as a dodo. With the extra slips, it would easily handle the extra traffic from a service area.
No the convoluted access which is shared with the B1224 is a problem. Even in normal conditions it can take a while getting out but if racing is on at the race course it can be a nightmare. The other problem I have is the parking area is too small. More than once I have got into the service area only to discover the car park is full. If I need to stop in that area I usually go into Boroughbridge and either use the Supermarket or head into the town itself which is rather agreeable and you can usually find a parking space.
I have to disagree about Dishforth, apart from anything else its a very busy junction as the A168/A19 which is feeding about 30k of traffic onto the A1(M). Access to/from the A1(M) northbound is poor and rather convoluted. I dont think a pair of extra slips would be either safe or adequate. In my opinion you would need to do a complete rebuild of a mess that has been cobbled together over many years and which started out as a roundabout. The whole thing should have been rebuilt properly when the A1 was upgraded to A1(M).
