A1(M) Moto MSA near Ripon rejected

[roadtester]

Wasn't aware of this one which I stumbled across while looking for something else.

Moto had an MSA near Ripon turned down last month.

Don't think this one has ever cropped up here before unless I'm mistaken.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/busines ... rs-2995767

[thomas417]

Wasn’t aware of this but I do agree that Ripon isn’t the right place. A proper motorway services is needed around Leeming.

[KeithW]

J49 is a bit of an odd place to build an MSA, its optimised for two main flows, north up the A1(M) and east along the A19. Without significant modifications to the junction the only way of accessing it northbound would be to leave the A1(M) at J48 and drive 5 miles up the LAR to Dishforth. From there to Hutton Conyers is another 4 miles along a minor road !
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.15017 ... 312!8i6656

Before the A1(M) widening there was a service area north of J49 but it was not connected to the new road and closed.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.16132 ... 312!8i6656

[KeithW]

Wasn’t aware of this but I do agree that Ripon isn’t the right place. A proper motorway services is needed around Leeming.

There is in fact a large truckstop at Leeming which has plenty of room for expansion.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/54.15 ... 154198!3e0

[roadtester]

Wasn’t aware of this but I do agree that Ripon isn’t the right place. A proper motorway services is needed around Leeming.

There is in fact a large truckstop at Leeming which has plenty of room for expansion.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/54.15 ... 154198!3e0

I can't find it now but I was looking at another report on the proposed Ripon services, which, if I remember correctly, said Moto had intended to expand Leeming Bar but had dropped this plan, presumably in order to concentrate Ripon.

[Debaser]

Wasn’t aware of this but I do agree that Ripon isn’t the right place. A proper motorway services is needed around Leeming.

There is in fact a large truckstop at Leeming which has plenty of room for expansion.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/54.15 ... 154198!3e0

I can't find it now but I was looking at another report on the proposed Ripon services, which, if I remember correctly, said Moto had intended to expand Leeming Bar but had dropped this plan, presumably in order to concentrate Ripon.

Towards the end of construction of the Dishforth to Leeming section and prior to the Leeming to Barton section starting there was a 3-way planning battle between Leeming Bar, a site near Kirby Hill and a.n.other to be allowed to build or redevelop as an MSA. I think this covers the fallout from Leeming Bar getting the nod.

[KeithW]

Towards the end of construction of the Dishforth to Leeming section and prior to the Leeming to Barton section starting there was a 3-way planning battle between Leeming Bar, a site near Kirby Hill and a.n.other to be allowed to build or redevelop as an MSA. I think this covers the fallout from Leeming Bar getting the nod.

Ultimately Leeming Bar was a bad decision In my opinion. not only is it a long way from the junction but its very small and old, the 'plans' to refurbish it seem not to have been actioned. The Lodge is a throwback to the 1960's and rather dilapidated, you have to check in at the Costa ! Its probably just well it was not refurbished given the miniscule car park.

The only catering available is the Costa and the McDonalds. In the meantime the Rest Area at Scotch Corner, an entirely unsuitable location has expanded and of course the truckstop at Barton is now fully open. In addition there has been a massive amount of development at J51. This would have been a far better option for an adequate modern MSA.

[stu531]

Personally, I think the Kirby Hill option was something that should've been followed up. Yes, Wetherby services exists not too far away, but the Dishforth-Hook Moor stretch takes on traffic that is not just using the A1, but also the M1 and A168/A19 routes - so it's a bit like a 'big multiplex'. It's also a good midway between the Tees Valley and West Yorks conurbations, so it seems a good place to have, if nothing else, a toilet stop.

It got knocked back by the usual North Yorks NIMBY crowd, but it was also claimed to have a negative knock-on for Boroughbridge. Personally I'm not sure too many folk come off at J49, stop at Boroughbridge, and rejoin at J48.

I think there is too long a gap between Leeming services (which are themselves out the way of the carriageway) and Wetherby services, which I think is something like 29 miles via the A1(M).

Ultimately Leeming Bar was a bad decision In my opinion.

I agree - the mix of Leeming, Coneygarth and Scotch Corner in a short space is very confusing. I agree that Coneygarth should be the main services after making it more non-HGV friendly, as it's much closer to the motorway than the existing Leeming services.

[roadtester]

I don't really have the local knowledge to have a strong view on the relative merits of the specific sites but I think there's certainly a need for a decent MSA on that stretch, given the intervals between existing facilities and the quality/importance of the route.

I always remember Wetherby opening and being immensely busy pretty much from day 1 - the pent up unsatisfied demand must have been enormous. I'm sure any new MSA in the area we're talking about would be the same.

[B1040]

They were queuing onto the road when we might have stopped at Scotch Corner at the end of August.
I smiled at the thought of motorists all driving into the middle of Ripon to pause their journeys. There would be a lot of congestion.
When I break a journey, I quite like using local facilities. Parking has to be free, or there has to be a good bookshop next to the cafe. I also don't want to go too far off piste

[fras]

They were queuing onto the road when we might have stopped at Scotch Corner at the end of August.
I smiled at the thought of motorists all driving into the middle of Ripon to pause their journeys. There would be a lot of congestion.
When I break a journey, I quite like using local facilities. Parking has to be free, or there has to be a good bookshop next to the cafe. I also don't want to go too far off piste

ANd you can read the enscription on the Town Hall in the market square: -

"Except ye Lord keep ye City, the Wakeman waketh in vain"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/northyorkshire/con ... ture.shtml

[ForestChav]

They were queuing onto the road when we might have stopped at Scotch Corner at the end of August.
I smiled at the thought of motorists all driving into the middle of Ripon to pause their journeys. There would be a lot of congestion.
When I break a journey, I quite like using local facilities. Parking has to be free, or there has to be a good bookshop next to the cafe. I also don't want to go too far off piste

ANd you can read the enscription on the Town Hall in the market square: -

"Except ye Lord keep ye City, the Wakeman waketh in vain"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/northyorkshire/con ... ture.shtml

Is that a parody of Ps 127:2 or just a dodgy translation?

[Stevie D]

J49 is a bit of an odd place to build an MSA, its optimised for two main flows, north up the A1(M) and east along the A19. Without significant modifications to the junction the only way of accessing it northbound would be to leave the A1(M) at J48 and drive 5 miles up the LAR to Dishforth. From there to Hutton Conyers is another 4 miles along a minor road !
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.15017 ... 312!8i6656

Before the A1(M) widening there was a service area north of J49 but it was not connected to the new road and closed.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.16132 ... 312!8i6656

It would not be difficult to build a new MSA at Dishforth and provide access to/from A1(M)(N), A1(M)(S) and A19. Here's one I made earlier!

[Osthagen]

Does a rule exist with the purpose of defining the minimum/maximum distance at which MSAs must be spaced out?

[fras]

They were queuing onto the road when we might have stopped at Scotch Corner at the end of August.
I smiled at the thought of motorists all driving into the middle of Ripon to pause their journeys. There would be a lot of congestion.
When I break a journey, I quite like using local facilities. Parking has to be free, or there has to be a good bookshop next to the cafe. I also don't want to go too far off piste

ANd you can read the enscription on the Town Hall in the market square: -

"Except ye Lord keep ye City, the Wakeman waketh in vain"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/northyorkshire/con ... ture.shtml

Is that a parody of Ps 127:2 or just a dodgy translation?

Ps 127.1 surely ?

[Bryn666]

Does a rule exist with the purpose of defining the minimum/maximum distance at which MSAs must be spaced out?

Basically, no. The early days called for a maximum space of 12 miles but all this went out the window years ago. If you can prove the demand is there you'll get a chance to build.

[roadtester]

Does a rule exist with the purpose of defining the minimum/maximum distance at which MSAs must be spaced out?

Basically, no. The early days called for a maximum space of 12 miles but all this went out the window years ago. If you can prove the demand is there you'll get a chance to build.

That said, the ratio of failed to successful proposals still seems to be quite high. I suppose the number of really good potential sites is quite limited.

[Bryn666]

Does a rule exist with the purpose of defining the minimum/maximum distance at which MSAs must be spaced out?

Basically, no. The early days called for a maximum space of 12 miles but all this went out the window years ago. If you can prove the demand is there you'll get a chance to build.

That said, the ratio of failed to successful proposals still seems to be quite high. I suppose the number of really good potential sites is quite limited.

Usually fail because opposition to the design or fears of killing local businesses or effect on existing roads kills them - some sites like Wetherby are absolute disasters in terms of traffic but they are absolutely essential from a safety perspective.

[DavidBrown]

Usually fail because opposition to the design or fears of killing local businesses or effect on existing roads kills them - some sites like Wetherby are absolute disasters in terms of traffic but they are absolutely essential from a safety perspective.

Is Wetherby a disaster in terms of traffic though only because it's the only service area for a considerable distance? J46 I would fairly safely say would be/was a very quiet junction by most standards if it wasn't for the services. Relieve the pressure on Wetherby services somewhat, and I don't see any reason for any traffic issues there.

Stevie's idea for Dishforth would work well, the only busy movement at J49 is freeflow, and the rest of the junction complex is as dead as a dodo. With the extra slips, it would easily handle the extra traffic from a service area.

[Bryn666]

I never have a problem with J46 when I have had to use Wetherby services - it's the internal circulation that doesn't work and seems to queue up for inexplicable reasons.

J49 would be an ideal MSA site and the two extra slips required to provide access to it as per Steve's suggestion are cheap to build. It also covers two major trunk routes. Win win all round for me.