Trapped by fresh snow

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Helvellyn
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Re: Trapped by fresh snow

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vlad wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 20:02
Helvellyn wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 17:17 Rather off-topic but it's a bit weird that one of those steep roads is a disused railway line for part of it - the steepest part! (cable-worked incline on the Cromford and High Peak railway).
True - but that's only the case as construction of Errwood Reservoir flooded the old road. There are plenty of other dismantled railway lines that are now roads.
Most of them are pretty flat though (by road standards if not railway ones). Being a railway to road conversion that's also a steep hill is somewhat more unusual.

What was the pre-reservoir course of the road? I'm guessing the track that diverges to the left (looking down) at the top of the incline?
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Re: Trapped by fresh snow

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Helvellyn wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 20:54
vlad wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 20:02
Helvellyn wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 17:17 Rather off-topic but it's a bit weird that one of those steep roads is a disused railway line for part of it - the steepest part! (cable-worked incline on the Cromford and High Peak railway).
True - but that's only the case as construction of Errwood Reservoir flooded the old road. There are plenty of other dismantled railway lines that are now roads.
Most of them are pretty flat though (by road standards if not railway ones). Being a railway to road conversion that's also a steep hill is somewhat more unusual.

What was the pre-reservoir course of the road? I'm guessing the track that diverges to the left (looking down) at the top of the incline?
If only there were a handy resource nearby !! :D
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punyXpress
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Re: Trapped by fresh snow

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Says it all, really:
"All except one car was from out of Cheshire. We had people from Sale, Stockport and Salford with the closest being Congleton."

Just a reminder, that no matter how well one & one's vehicle are prepared you are still at the mercy of 'others' :cry:
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Re: Trapped by fresh snow

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Big L wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 21:11
Helvellyn wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 20:54
vlad wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 20:02

True - but that's only the case as construction of Errwood Reservoir flooded the old road. There are plenty of other dismantled railway lines that are now roads.
Most of them are pretty flat though (by road standards if not railway ones). Being a railway to road conversion that's also a steep hill is somewhat more unusual.

What was the pre-reservoir course of the road? I'm guessing the track that diverges to the left (looking down) at the top of the incline?
If only there were a handy resource nearby !! :D
Yes yes, point made! :P
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Helvellyn
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Re: Trapped by fresh snow

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punyXpress wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 21:42 Says it all, really:
"All except one car was from out of Cheshire. We had people from Sale, Stockport and Salford with the closest being Congleton."

Just a reminder, that no matter how well one & one's vehicle are prepared you are still at the mercy of 'others' :cry:
Sale, Stockport, and Salford aren't a million miles from the Peak District part of Cheshire, it's all still local-ish. A bit of reasonableness is needed when it comes to boundaries; it wouldn't take me long to walk from my house in Derbyshire in to Cheshire for example (probably less than two miles as the crow flies).
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the cheesecake man
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Re: Trapped by fresh snow

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Fluid Dynamics wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 18:53 Oh I remember that day well. End of first term at Warwick Uni and my parents traveling from the south coast got stuck between Oxford and Coventry (just pre the M40 opening). Never seen so much snow fall in such a short period. When they finally arrived and we departed the next day it was treacherous, but strangely by the time we got to Milton Keynes (sensibly took the M1 on the way back) there was no snow. Someone I knew had a Land Rover and tried to get up the M69 towards Yorkshire but they got blocked by stranded vehicles.
I think I do too. We left home with no snow in sight. A few miles around the edge of Sheffield later snow was falling heavily so we decided to turn back, but the hills we'd just traversed had become impassable scarily quickly. We had to take a indirect less hilly route via the city centre which was still painfully slow and hair-raising. If we'd set off slightly earlier we'd have reached the Peak District and may well not have got back at all.

And of course there was the day in November 2010 when there was so much snow I couldn't even see the road at the bottom of the drive. Fortunately that happened overnight not while I was at work.
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Re: Trapped by fresh snow

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Helvellyn wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 22:08
punyXpress wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 21:42 Says it all, really:
"All except one car was from out of Cheshire. We had people from Sale, Stockport and Salford with the closest being Congleton."

Just a reminder, that no matter how well one & one's vehicle are prepared you are still at the mercy of 'others' :cry:
Sale, Stockport, and Salford aren't a million miles from the Peak District part of Cheshire, it's all still local-ish. A bit of reasonableness is needed when it comes to boundaries; it wouldn't take me long to walk from my house in Derbyshire in to Cheshire for example (probably less than two miles as the crow flies).
Indeed. It is less than a 30 min drive to the Goyt carpark for me and it is only that long because a lot of it is twisty narrow lanes. And according to my address I am in Cheshire - if Cheshire Cops can be picky so can I.
While I appreciate that some people got caught out by the weather and caused the rescue services some hassle Cheshire Cops comments were somewhat uncalled for in terms of where people came from to get stuck. We are not talking Milton Keynes to Brecon type journeys.
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Re: Trapped by fresh snow

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We left home with no snow in sight. A few miles around the edge of Sheffield later snow was falling heavily so we decided to turn back, but the hills we'd just traversed had become impassable scarily quickly. We had to take a indirect less hilly route via the city centre which was still painfully slow and hair-raising. If we'd set off slightly earlier we'd have reached the Peak District and may well not have got back at all.


If I recall correctly, we once had a tread about 'Snow Gates' and the Peak District featured extensively in the conversations. I remember saying they were some snow gates on A6024 Holme Moss, but I wasn't sure if they has been used in a long time. I am sure Snake Pass also had them?
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Re: Trapped by fresh snow

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Jim606 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 18:43 If I recall correctly, we once had a tread about 'Snow Gates' and the Peak District featured extensively in the conversations. I remember saying they were some snow gates on A6024 Holme Moss, but I wasn't sure if they has been used in a long time. I am sure Snake Pass also had them?
If they're still there they're in an unexpected place.

When the Snake Pass was closed due to snow back in November the Police put up cones and a "Road Closed" sign at Ladybower by the turn to Fairholmes (and a prior warning before the A6013 junction).
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Re: Trapped by fresh snow

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vlad wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 20:00
Jim606 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 18:43 If I recall correctly, we once had a tread about 'Snow Gates' and the Peak District featured extensively in the conversations. I remember saying they were some snow gates on A6024 Holme Moss, but I wasn't sure if they has been used in a long time. I am sure Snake Pass also had them?
If they're still there they're in an unexpected place.

When the Snake Pass was closed due to snow back in November the Police put up cones and a "Road Closed" sign at Ladybower by the turn to Fairholmes (and a prior warning before the A6013 junction).
As I understand it there are no snow gates on the Snake because the only places traffic can be turned round are Glossop to the West and Ladybower. There are gates on the Woodhead and A66. There is of course a list of English snow gates on the Wiki

https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/ind ... in_England

From the SABRE Wiki: List of Snow Gates in England :

elow is a list of snow gates in England.


|

... Read More
XC70
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Re: Trapped by fresh snow

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The wiki link says that the Woodhead Eastbound snow gates are in Cheshire. Surely they are in Derbyshire?
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Re: Trapped by fresh snow

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XC70 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 20:40 The wiki link says that the Woodhead Eastbound snow gates are in Cheshire. Surely they are in Derbyshire?
They certainly appear to be. The Wiki has a great feature, where anyone can edit it if they find an error !!
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Re: Trapped by fresh snow

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I don't think vehicles getting trapped by snow is as uncommon as we think, more that it goes relatively unreported. In December several miles of the A607 between Melton and Grantham were blocked for an afternoon due to heavy snow on steep hills causing wagons to slip and block it up for everyone. Leics CC were fairly proactive and got the ploughs out straight away, but people were stuck for several hours.
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Re: Trapped by fresh snow

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darkcape wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 23:38 I don't think vehicles getting trapped by snow is as uncommon as we think, more that it goes relatively unreported. In December several miles of the A607 between Melton and Grantham were blocked for an afternoon due to heavy snow on steep hills causing wagons to slip and block it up for everyone. Leics CC were fairly proactive and got the ploughs out straight away, but people were stuck for several hours.


From our local paper

Gazette Live
17:11, 2 JAN 2021

Snow and ice have caused serious disruption on the roads after wintry conditions swept across Teessside.

The Met Office has issued an alert saying the weather could cause disruption to travel.
Roads in East Cleveland have been the worst effected, with the A174 Apple Orchard Bank near Skelton and nearby Skelton Ellers both closed for much of the day as motorists became stranded.

The Met Office issued a yellow warning for snow and ice which runs until 6pm on Saturday, which was later extended to 11am on Sunday.

Forecasters said snowfall may cause tricky travel conditions in places.

The Met Office said to expect:

Some roads and railways likely to be affected with longer journey times by road, bus and train services
Some injuries from slips and falls on icy surfaces
Probably some icy patches on some untreated roads, pavements and cycle paths
Birk Brow on the A171 is often hit and much as I love it in summer nothing would entice me to take the B1257 from Stokesley to Helmsley in snowy weather.
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Re: Trapped by fresh snow

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Big L wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 21:03
XC70 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 20:40 The wiki link says that the Woodhead Eastbound snow gates are in Cheshire. Surely they are in Derbyshire?
They certainly appear to be. The Wiki has a great feature, where anyone can edit it if they find an error !!
I am just a mere mortal. I am not a roads professional, just an occasional observer and an even more occasional poster. I wouldn't dare to be so bold as to start editing your site.
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Re: Trapped by fresh snow

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XC70 wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 09:52
Big L wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 21:03
XC70 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 20:40 The wiki link says that the Woodhead Eastbound snow gates are in Cheshire. Surely they are in Derbyshire?
They certainly appear to be. The Wiki has a great feature, where anyone can edit it if they find an error !!
I am just a mere mortal. I am not a roads professional, just an occasional observer and an even more occasional poster. I wouldn't dare to be so bold as to start editing your site.
You’re a member of SABRE just like the rest of us - it’s not Big L’s site, or mine, or anyone else’s, and it’s not the preserve or the work of professionals. It’s by all of us, for all of us. We’re all mere mortals. Even if you decide not to have a go at making this change, please don’t be afraid to have a go. Nobody will shout at you if you get it wrong.
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Re: Trapped by fresh snow

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KeithW wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 08:50
Birk Brow on the A171 is often hit and much as I love it in summer nothing would entice me to take the B1257 from Stokesley to Helmsley in snowy weather.
One mid November my mate and I had done an overnight at Saltburn, having been at the local rally school the day before. We were in his rally car and rather than go round to the A19 we headed across country on a bright clear morning. As we climbed up onto the moors I commented to the driver that I could see frost on the roadside grass, moments later we were all over the road. Not much further on we encountered a head on collision on a crest. Stopping was tricky and once halted we started sliding backwards, in gear with the handbrake on, until we got on a bit of the road edge. The road had been very recently been resurfaced, it had rained in the evening and then frozen overnight. You couldn't stand on it, moving was extremely difficult because of the pronounced camber and nowhere being flat. We often exaggerate when describing conditions but this really was like a skating ring. It was the most difficult conditions I've ever encountered.
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Re: Trapped by fresh snow

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Chris5156 wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:05
XC70 wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 09:52
Big L wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 21:03
They certainly appear to be. The Wiki has a great feature, where anyone can edit it if they find an error !!
I am just a mere mortal. I am not a roads professional, just an occasional observer and an even more occasional poster. I wouldn't dare to be so bold as to start editing your site.
You’re a member of SABRE just like the rest of us - it’s not Big L’s site, or mine, or anyone else’s, and it’s not the preserve or the work of professionals. It’s by all of us, for all of us. We’re all mere mortals. Even if you decide not to have a go at making this change, please don’t be afraid to have a go. Nobody will shout at you if you get it wrong.
Er....it might get edited back and forth. Again, I think we've had these conversations somewhere before? Your right in saying that this area is now 'officially' in Derbyshire, however prior to the 1974 county boundary act, the long finger (or Panhandle) of Longdendale was actually in Cheshire. Even today, some regard it as 'historically' still being in Cheshire. Hence, the edits in Wiki... Similarly the nearby Saddleworth villages were in the West Riding of Yorks., but are now in Gt. Manc. etc...
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Re: Trapped by fresh snow

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Fluid Dynamics wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 18:53
M4Simon wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 14:30 I've spent a day trapped in snow on the M1, followed by a night sleeping on the restaurant floor at Leicester Forest East Service Area. This was in December 1990. I was offered a lift home at the end of term in my mate's van from Loughborough to Swansea. On the morning we left, we knoew that snow was coming in from the north, and instead of following the usual route of the A512 / A42 / M42 / M5 etc, we decided to join the M1 at J23 and head south as quickly as possible to outrun the snow. Unfortunately, it was snowing as we joined the M1, and we got stuck among the lorries climbing the hill just north of J22, soon after 7:00am. While stationary, the fan belt broke, which meant we lost heating, and we spent some of the day sat in a lorry driver's cab until the police could tow us to LFE services. The AA came out next morning, repaired the fan belt, and we had an uneventful journey via the M1, M25 and M4 to Swansea.

With the benefit of 30 years hindsight, we shouldn't have left Loughborough. My mate's van was old, and perhaps he should have checked his belts for signs of wear and damage, though I doubt many people do that routinely. Had the van not broken down, we would have got going again around 12 hours after we got stuck, and would have got to Swansea at about 1:00am. We later found out that the M42 was also littered with stranded vehicles, and although not the most pleasant day, we survived with no ill effects. We were near enough for one of us to be able to walk to the filling station at J22 to get food, which helped.

As this was in the days before mobile phones, I contacted the police to ask them to pass a message to my parents to say we had been held up. Needless to say they were somewhat alarmed to get a vague message from the police, and much relieved when I could phone them from LFE.

Simon
Oh I remember that day well. End of first term at Warwick Uni and my parents traveling from the south coast got stuck between Oxford and Coventry (just pre the M40 opening). Never seen so much snow fall in such a short period. When they finally arrived and we departed the next day it was treacherous, but strangely by the time we got to Milton Keynes (sensibly took the M1 on the way back) there was no snow. Someone I knew had a Land Rover and tried to get up the M69 towards Yorkshire but they got blocked by stranded vehicles.
I became stranded in the snow on 8 December 1990, possibly the same night you both refer to. The thing I remember was that it was a Thundersnow event, or at least it was in the West Midlands. I had arrived at work near Spaghetti Junction at midnight to perform out of hours technical work on our mainframe computer. The snow began a few minutes later and by 3am was a raging blizzard with snow so deep you couldn't make out the car park entrance to the road. The electrical storm was soon tripping out the mainframe every few minutes and I decided it was pointless to continue my task. I should have just stayed the night on a comfy chair in the rest room but for some inexplicable reason decided to drive back home near Stourbridge in my Transit van - possibly the worst vehicle for the job!

I got on the M6 north at Spaghetti, it was like a wasteland of new unblemished snow. The first few miles were actually ok, I managed to get behind an articulated lorry and follow his tracks all up past J7 and then down the M5. The continuous lightning was breathtaking in the blizzard, the whole effect was so bright as to be momentarily blinding. I got off the M5 at J2 and heading uphill towards the high ground of Dudley on the A4123, the van finally slid to a stop and went into a snowdrift where it refused to budge. Here I made my next mistake. I had over half a tank of diesel and a nice warm heater - I should have just sat it out until morning. Instead I decided to abandon the van and walk home.

I can't describe the cold. I had two thick coats on and a woolly hat but with the snow bearing down sideways in the wind it soon became painful and I started to suffer. The most frightening part was after half an hour or so on Castlegate in Dudley where the blizzard was so hard, I lost sight of the buildings either side of the road and could see literally nothing all around - very disorientating. Finally approaching the Station Hotel at about 4.30am I noticed a night porter in the glass doorway who was watching the lorries sliding backwards down the hill. I must have looked a sight but he let me in where I collapsed in a heap on the posh hotel staircase unable to speak! The pain across my chest was almost unbearable but and I could read the porter's thoughts as he wondered whether or not to call an ambulance. I began to feel better after a few minutes and was ok after a few cups of coffee. Most bizarrely, by 6am I was fine and spent the rest of the night helping the porter to arrange chairs in their function room for a Christmas do that night! If someone had told me that six hours ago!

Looking back it all sound ridiculous. Trapped in a white-out and feeling near-death in the middle of Dudley! It's hardly Captain Scott is it? Dunn of the Antarctic! But I learned a lesson and I've never been out driving in the snow since then without trying to have some sort of plan. I can now fully appreciate how people die in more remote regions when this sort of snap event occurs.

Edited - corrected Thundersnow link.
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Chris5156
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Re: Trapped by fresh snow

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Jim606 wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:12Er....it might get edited back and forth. Again, I think we've had these conversations somewhere before? Your right in saying that this area is now 'officially' in Derbyshire, however prior to the 1974 county boundary act, the long finger (or Panhandle) of Longdendale was actually in Cheshire. Even today, some regard it as 'historically' still being in Cheshire. Hence, the edits in Wiki... Similarly the nearby Saddleworth villages were in the West Riding of Yorks., but are now in Gt. Manc. etc...
Maybe - I'm not particularly interested in the counties debate, though I know some are. I didn't say anything about whether this area is in Derbyshire.

I'm really just worried by the idea that someone who's been a member of SABRE for seven years still thinks they shouldn't touch anything because the wiki is "not theirs". I'd like to think all our members will feel included.
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