Road Building Plans to be Halted?

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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

Post by Chris5156 »

Bryn666 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 18:26People you know might not want it but plenty of employers are considering downsizing if not outright selling office space. My own included.

They've realised people are just as productive, in fact some are more productive because they're not losing 3 hours a day travelling, by sheer virtue of being able to work in their own house.

Yeah, some might like sitting in traffic jams every morning but I suspect a lot more do not.
I realise that many companies are thinking about this - though I think that is more because they see financial savings, than because they think it's good for their employees.

My concern is that having everyone work from home is fine in the short and medium term, when the people working from home are in established teams, with working relationships and personal connections already in place. Having new people join those teams having never physically met anyone in them, and having no office or base to attend where they can get to know their new colleagues and learn the culture, is a completely different proposition. I know anecdotally of several cases where someone has been recruited to a team who are currently working from home, and working very well; have failed to get to grips with the team or the work; have failed to find a way to fit in; and have left again a few months later. And really that isn't surprising. You don't learn a job by email.

I strongly suspect that some amount of time spent in a shared work space with your colleagues is a more important than these companies currently appreciate, and I expect that in a few years' time many of the companies who sell off all their office space will be finding that the productivity of a workforce working entirely from home has not stayed nice and high. That doesn't mean that we all need to go back to the nine to five, but I think predictions that the pandemic marks the death of the commute are rather overstated. People will work from home more than they did before, but that will be the furthest extent of the change.
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

Post by Bryn666 »

Chris5156 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 21:05
Bryn666 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 18:26People you know might not want it but plenty of employers are considering downsizing if not outright selling office space. My own included.

They've realised people are just as productive, in fact some are more productive because they're not losing 3 hours a day travelling, by sheer virtue of being able to work in their own house.

Yeah, some might like sitting in traffic jams every morning but I suspect a lot more do not.
I realise that many companies are thinking about this - though I think that is more because they see financial savings, than because they think it's good for their employees.

My concern is that having everyone work from home is fine in the short and medium term, when the people working from home are in established teams, with working relationships and personal connections already in place. Having new people join those teams having never physically met anyone in them, and having no office or base to attend where they can get to know their new colleagues and learn the culture, is a completely different proposition. I know anecdotally of several cases where someone has been recruited to a team who are currently working from home, and working very well; have failed to get to grips with the team or the work; have failed to find a way to fit in; and have left again a few months later. And really that isn't surprising. You don't learn a job by email.

I strongly suspect that some amount of time spent in a shared work space with your colleagues is a more important than these companies currently appreciate, and I expect that in a few years' time many of the companies who sell off all their office space will be finding that the productivity of a workforce working entirely from home has not stayed nice and high. That doesn't mean that we all need to go back to the nine to five, but I think predictions that the pandemic marks the death of the commute are rather overstated. People will work from home more than they did before, but that will be the furthest extent of the change.
The talk from our head office is looking at maybe one or two days mandatory per week where you go to the office, and the rest of the week is down to you. I work for a Dutch firm, with no external shareholders, so they tend to have a more people orientated outlook than several firms here might.
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

Post by Herned »

Chris5156 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 21:05 I strongly suspect that some amount of time spent in a shared work space with your colleagues is a more important than these companies currently appreciate, and I expect that in a few years' time many of the companies who sell off all their office space will be finding that the productivity of a workforce working entirely from home has not stayed nice and high. That doesn't mean that we all need to go back to the nine to five, but I think predictions that the pandemic marks the death of the commute are rather overstated. People will work from home more than they did before, but that will be the furthest extent of the change.
I would imagine that the number of companies planning to sell all their office space is miniscule, very few people are wanting 100% home working. I do believe that 2-3 days per week in the office will become the norm though, which will have a noticeable effect on traffic demand. My employer which is one with its name on a building at Canary Wharf is planning for 2 days in the office being the norm, with lots more flexible spaces, and almost certainly far less actual floorspace in total
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

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Herned wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 22:00
Chris5156 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 21:05 I strongly suspect that some amount of time spent in a shared work space with your colleagues is a more important than these companies currently appreciate, and I expect that in a few years' time many of the companies who sell off all their office space will be finding that the productivity of a workforce working entirely from home has not stayed nice and high. That doesn't mean that we all need to go back to the nine to five, but I think predictions that the pandemic marks the death of the commute are rather overstated. People will work from home more than they did before, but that will be the furthest extent of the change.
I would imagine that the number of companies planning to sell all their office space is miniscule, very few people are wanting 100% home working. I do believe that 2-3 days per week in the office will become the norm though, which will have a noticeable effect on traffic demand. My employer which is one with its name on a building at Canary Wharf is planning for 2 days in the office being the norm, with lots more flexible spaces, and almost certainly far less actual floorspace in total
Companies or organisations selling all their office space is highly unlikely. However, selling part of it or renting out part of it may happen. While those that rent their space may opt to rent fewer floors or rooms.
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

Post by Debaser »

Bryn666 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 21:28 The talk from our head office is looking at maybe one or two days mandatory per week where you go to the office, and the rest of the week is down to you. I work for a Dutch firm, with no external shareholders, so they tend to have a more people orientated outlook than several firms here might.
As someone who works for a different northern European-owned firm it will be interesting to see if future employment patterns differ between them and those consultants with North American owners.
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

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Bryn666 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 18:26 People you know might not want it but plenty of employers are considering downsizing if not outright selling office space. My own included.

They've realised people are just as productive, in fact some are more productive because they're not losing 3 hours a day travelling, by sheer virtue of being able to work in their own house.

Yeah, some might like sitting in traffic jams every morning but I suspect a lot more do not.
You think people like sitting in traffic? Who are they? That most people are doing 3 hours travel per day?

What aside from a stupid strawman is such a comment supposed to acheive? Belittle someones argument by taking it to a daft extreme? Is that fear of lacking a counter argument?


They sit in it because it is necessary to achieve their objective. It’s that simple and requires no deliniation into “good” or “bad” journeys, its just their journeys. Nor are most journeys anything like equivalent to 1 1/2 hours each as those who believe in modal shifts to bikes and busses are the first to claim.

I really dont think this’ll change much, my old employer (I left late last year due to frustration with them) thought for most of last year that wfh was ace and it could save a fortune on office space. Realism is now dawning as are the chorus of people telling the managmenet that yes a modicum is nice and flexible, but the loss of productivity and interaction is tolerated for covid, but not forever. Equally many are opposed to the company peering into their homes - I dont mean by camera, but display screen assessments, by attempts to insist people receive office furniture and even (very short lived but a sign) demand to do full HSE assessments of lighting and steps and so on (I kid you not that is what someone senior genuinely thought they should do - it failed but you saw it here first!). Where does that go? Who pays to fix lighting? wiring standards?

So medium term, this is a blip little more, as evidenced by the traffic and congestion even now supposedly in a lockdown, as so many have learnt to play the game.
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

Post by AndyB »

May I introduce you to hundreds if not thousands of people in Northern Ireland whose commute is 1.5 hours each way... and if we can achieve that many, you can bet there are a hell of a lot more in GB.

The problem with your proposition is that home working is not causing a loss of productivity. Rather, whether your commute would have been 15 minutes or 90 minutes, productivity has gone up, not least because you’re not tired from the effort of making it into the office.

It does reduce interaction, but equally I know that my colleagues probably do more personal interaction via MS Teams than they ever did face to face. That doesn’t change the fact that it’s far easier for me to help someone over their shoulder than by screen sharing.

Your employer has an obligation to ensure that your workspace is safe, and the provision of office furniture (do you really want to sit on a dining chair all day?) can be part of that, which reminds me that I need to chase my staff for their DSE pro formas and fill one in for myself so that a qualified DSE assessor (not me) can review them and discuss needs. We have no space for another desk in our house, but if my employer wants to give me furniture to work from home at his expense...!

And as for the definition of good and bad journeys, that does exist.

A good car journey is an essential journey - one you need to make at the time intended or which at least has next to no impact on anybody else.

A bad journey by any mode is one that causes congestion and which you could perfectly reasonably have made either at a different time or by a different mode, with little inconvenience to you.

Remember, congestion is caused by people who are in a position to choose different times or modes for their journeys getting in the way of those who don’t have any choice.
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

Post by Bryn666 »

marconaf wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 23:12
Bryn666 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 18:26 People you know might not want it but plenty of employers are considering downsizing if not outright selling office space. My own included.

They've realised people are just as productive, in fact some are more productive because they're not losing 3 hours a day travelling, by sheer virtue of being able to work in their own house.

Yeah, some might like sitting in traffic jams every morning but I suspect a lot more do not.
You think people like sitting in traffic? Who are they? That most people are doing 3 hours travel per day?

What aside from a stupid strawman is such a comment supposed to acheive? Belittle someones argument by taking it to a daft extreme? Is that fear of lacking a counter argument?


They sit in it because it is necessary to achieve their objective. It’s that simple and requires no deliniation into “good” or “bad” journeys, its just their journeys. Nor are most journeys anything like equivalent to 1 1/2 hours each as those who believe in modal shifts to bikes and busses are the first to claim.

I really dont think this’ll change much, my old employer (I left late last year due to frustration with them) thought for most of last year that wfh was ace and it could save a fortune on office space. Realism is now dawning as are the chorus of people telling the managmenet that yes a modicum is nice and flexible, but the loss of productivity and interaction is tolerated for covid, but not forever. Equally many are opposed to the company peering into their homes - I dont mean by camera, but display screen assessments, by attempts to insist people receive office furniture and even (very short lived but a sign) demand to do full HSE assessments of lighting and steps and so on (I kid you not that is what someone senior genuinely thought they should do - it failed but you saw it here first!). Where does that go? Who pays to fix lighting? wiring standards?

So medium term, this is a blip little more, as evidenced by the traffic and congestion even now supposedly in a lockdown, as so many have learnt to play the game.
You've never commuted into central Manchester have you? In a car it will take you a good 45 minutes to get from the M60 to the city centre. It will often also take another 30+ minutes to get onto the M60 if you have the misfortune of needing to use the M61, M56, or M67.

So rather than getting on your high horse, maybe do a bit of fact searching first, you might find not everyone works in a nice little rural town with no traffic, but since you can't be bothered to read a post properly why should I waste my time with yet another SABRE know it all? I put it to you quite simply if you ask anyone with a tedious car commute "do they enjoy it, and would they ditch it at the first opportunity" the answer would be no followed by yes.

Unless wasting your life breathing in exhaust fumes and staring at a flashing "QUEUE CAUTION" sign is your idea of fun why would you think no-one wants to change their approach?
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

Post by Richardf »

My take on this is and has for a long time is that some roadbuilding to releive congestion is acceptable, but road building to simply create more traffic isnt. It has long been recognised that congestion creates more pollution and so removing the source of the congestion helps reduce it. Of course it doesnt always work like that, in many cases a scheme will do the job of removing a pinch point in the network but at the same time stimilate traffic growth and just move the problem elsewhere. On the other hand doing nothing isnt the answer, just telling people not to drive isnt enough, some journeys are unavoidable and cant tbe done other ways.

Hopefully with the move towards electric and other greener fuel sources for cars and other vehicles, the pollution aspect of motoring will become less of an issue.
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

Post by AndyB »

Richardf wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:23 On the other hand doing nothing isnt the answer, just telling people not to drive isnt enough, some journeys are unavoidable and cant tbe done other ways.

Hopefully with the move towards electric and other greener fuel sources for cars and other vehicles, the pollution aspect of motoring will become less of an issue.
Oh, absolutely, but congestion also has an economic cost. You waste as much time if you’re in a traffic jam of EVs as you do if it’s all ICE vehicles.

Many car journeys are unavoidable - the majority, I think. The problem is that fact is a distraction from the minority of journeys which could reasonably be made either at other times or by other modes and would be sufficient to resolve the majority of congestion issues.

Only a majority, which is what I’ve been getting at. If, as seems likely, working from home continues for the long term, you will still have plenty of road schemes that are essential for the functioning of the economy or essential for road safety, and others where future-proofing might seem over the top but will save the taxpayer a lot of money over the very long term compared to doing something now and having to do it right later.
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

Post by Bryn666 »

AndyB wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:42
Richardf wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:23 On the other hand doing nothing isnt the answer, just telling people not to drive isnt enough, some journeys are unavoidable and cant tbe done other ways.

Hopefully with the move towards electric and other greener fuel sources for cars and other vehicles, the pollution aspect of motoring will become less of an issue.
Oh, absolutely, but congestion also has an economic cost. You waste as much time if you’re in a traffic jam of EVs as you do if it’s all ICE vehicles.

Many car journeys are unavoidable - the majority, I think. The problem is that fact is a distraction from the minority of journeys which could reasonably be made either at other times or by other modes and would be sufficient to resolve the majority of congestion issues.

Only a majority, which is what I’ve been getting at. If, as seems likely, working from home continues for the long term, you will still have plenty of road schemes that are essential for the functioning of the economy or essential for road safety, and others where future-proofing might seem over the top but will save the taxpayer a lot of money over the very long term compared to doing something now and having to do it right later.
As others have said, the reduction of even just 7% of journeys will make a massive difference to many junctions that currently cause chaos. It's always the first resort of the hard of thinking to suggest people are coming to cube their cars, but all we really need in congestion terms is to knock out about 10-15% of trips by solo-occupancy cars and many of our problems will be lessened if not resolved outright.

We need to move away from this belief that trips are 'unavoidable', smarter working, improved delivery infrastructure, and so on, is all about introducing market freedoms to choose what you use your time for. It seems very strange to me that all these self-proclaimed free marketeers are so determined to force dependence on a single means of movement. I mean, who are the real baddies here? Those who are trying to create freedom of choice, or those who think if you don't drive a car you're a failure and should be punished by social exclusion?
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

Post by A303Chris »

Bryn666 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 21:28 The talk from our head office is looking at maybe one or two days mandatory per week where you go to the office, and the rest of the week is down to you. I work for a Dutch firm, with no external shareholders, so they tend to have a more people orientated outlook than several firms here might.
We are looking at, similar. We were operating during August and September, a mandatory 2/3 days in the office and the rest up to you. Obviously last year was affected by the Covid secure office rules, but it worked better when the team go together.

I think we will be mandatory 4 days in, one at home if you wish, if we ever get back to normal
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

Post by KeithW »

Bryn666 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:00 We need to move away from this belief that trips are 'unavoidable', smarter working, improved delivery infrastructure, and so on, is all about introducing market freedoms to choose what you use your time for. It seems very strange to me that all these self-proclaimed free marketeers are so determined to force dependence on a single means of movement. I mean, who are the real baddies here? Those who are trying to create freedom of choice, or those who think if you don't drive a car you're a failure and should be punished by social exclusion?
Some trips will always be necessary, if you are training a whole bunch of people its always better to be with them because some times one to one instruction is necessary. Introducing the freedom to use your time for whatever you to choose is frankly unworkable, on a complex project the manager has to be able to direct people to the tasks that need to be done first. Free markets mean open to all not a free for all. As for dependence on a single form of transport I have not seen it, my last employer had a preference for rail travel where it was practical but if you are in Cambridge and the customer is in rural Bedfordshire you just have to jump in car.

In my last job most of us would go in to the office a couple of days a week because some times despite all the electronics a bunch of people hashing ideas around in front of a chalkboard just works better.
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

Post by BF2142 »

I doubt there will be any mass return to the old days of commuting into London 5 days/week. When you can be just as productive at home, why would you waste time/money doing that? If I was CEO with a huge tower on Canary Wharf that's sitting 90% empty right now and my company is looking at maybe having 40% occupancy when normality returns, I would be thinking about moving to a smaller building in the medium-term. IMO the medium and long-term economic changes from the pandemic will be immense.
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

Post by Herned »

marconaf wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 23:12 You think people like sitting in traffic? Who are they? That most people are doing 3 hours travel per day?
The average commute in 2019 was 59 minutes. That means there are big numbers of people who do spend 3 hours each day. It's not just in big cities that it can take that sort of time. I live in a mid-sized town with ~70k population. It can comfortably take 45 minutes to cross the town at the wrong time of day
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

Post by trickstat »

Bryn666 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:00
AndyB wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:42
Richardf wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:23 On the other hand doing nothing isnt the answer, just telling people not to drive isnt enough, some journeys are unavoidable and cant tbe done other ways.

Hopefully with the move towards electric and other greener fuel sources for cars and other vehicles, the pollution aspect of motoring will become less of an issue.
Oh, absolutely, but congestion also has an economic cost. You waste as much time if you’re in a traffic jam of EVs as you do if it’s all ICE vehicles.

Many car journeys are unavoidable - the majority, I think. The problem is that fact is a distraction from the minority of journeys which could reasonably be made either at other times or by other modes and would be sufficient to resolve the majority of congestion issues.

Only a majority, which is what I’ve been getting at. If, as seems likely, working from home continues for the long term, you will still have plenty of road schemes that are essential for the functioning of the economy or essential for road safety, and others where future-proofing might seem over the top but will save the taxpayer a lot of money over the very long term compared to doing something now and having to do it right later.
As others have said, the reduction of even just 7% of journeys will make a massive difference to many junctions that currently cause chaos.
I think this is shown during school holidays. Even at times that are too early or too late to be directly affected by school run traffic or where you are not near any schools, during school holidays traffic will often run noticeably more freely on commuting routes. This is despite the fact that many commuters do not have school-age children at home and many of those that do have not taken the day off.
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

Post by marconaf »

Bryn666 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 00:09
marconaf wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 23:12
Bryn666 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 18:26 People you know might not want it but plenty of employers are considering downsizing if not outright selling office space. My own included.

They've realised people are just as productive, in fact some are more productive because they're not losing 3 hours a day travelling, by sheer virtue of being able to work in their own house.

Yeah, some might like sitting in traffic jams every morning but I suspect a lot more do not.
You think people like sitting in traffic? Who are they? That most people are doing 3 hours travel per day?

What aside from a stupid strawman is such a comment supposed to acheive? Belittle someones argument by taking it to a daft extreme? Is that fear of lacking a counter argument?


They sit in it because it is necessary to achieve their objective. It’s that simple and requires no deliniation into “good” or “bad” journeys, its just their journeys. Nor are most journeys anything like equivalent to 1 1/2 hours each as those who believe in modal shifts to bikes and busses are the first to claim.

I really dont think this’ll change much, my old employer (I left late last year due to frustration with them) thought for most of last year that wfh was ace and it could save a fortune on office space. Realism is now dawning as are the chorus of people telling the managmenet that yes a modicum is nice and flexible, but the loss of productivity and interaction is tolerated for covid, but not forever. Equally many are opposed to the company peering into their homes - I dont mean by camera, but display screen assessments, by attempts to insist people receive office furniture and even (very short lived but a sign) demand to do full HSE assessments of lighting and steps and so on (I kid you not that is what someone senior genuinely thought they should do - it failed but you saw it here first!). Where does that go? Who pays to fix lighting? wiring standards?

So medium term, this is a blip little more, as evidenced by the traffic and congestion even now supposedly in a lockdown, as so many have learnt to play the game.
You've never commuted into central Manchester have you? In a car it will take you a good 45 minutes to get from the M60 to the city centre. It will often also take another 30+ minutes to get onto the M60 if you have the misfortune of needing to use the M61, M56, or M67.

So rather than getting on your high horse, maybe do a bit of fact searching first, you might find not everyone works in a nice little rural town with no traffic, but since you can't be bothered to read a post properly why should I waste my time with yet another SABRE know it all? I put it to you quite simply if you ask anyone with a tedious car commute "do they enjoy it, and would they ditch it at the first opportunity" the answer would be no followed by yes.

Unless wasting your life breathing in exhaust fumes and staring at a flashing "QUEUE CAUTION" sign is your idea of fun why would you think no-one wants to change their approach?
What has Manchester got to do with it? (And how would you know if I’ve worked there? Does Failsworth count from Preston or just your own specific thing? Pretty certain that required extensuce M61/62&60 experience not to mention sometimes via Clitheroe/Burnley so 65 also...). And what relvance does mentioning rural traffic free towns have?

Perhaps try letting people speak their experience before you tell them what they’ve “never” done or start moving them into villages that you’ve created in your mind?

For someone who complains about their post not being read, yours are stuffed full of strawmen, and as for “know it all” and “high horses”, the phrase “doctor take thine own...” rapidly springs to mind.


The statistics are quite clear - commutes are not 1.5 hours each way for the overwhelming majority of people.

Literally the first google link says average is 1 hour total. A third of the figure being pontificated about.

https://www.tuc.org.uk/news/annual-com ... -finds-tuc

Finally, again with the daft “wanting to waste life” strawman. Again the answer isn’t that they like it - it is a necessary fall out of what they want to acheive. Wfh really isnt going to change that.
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

Post by marconaf »

Herned wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 13:18
marconaf wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 23:12 You think people like sitting in traffic? Who are they? That most people are doing 3 hours travel per day?
The average commute in 2019 was 59 minutes. That means there are big numbers of people who do spend 3 hours each day. It's not just in big cities that it can take that sort of time. I live in a mid-sized town with ~70k population. It can comfortably take 45 minutes to cross the town at the wrong time of day
No, it really doesnt mean that.

The 59 mins is combined there and back, ie total.

For “big” numbers to be doing 3 hours a day (and originally this was 1.5 PLUS so its really 3*), then how is the average a mere third of that? That’s an impossible distribution, certainly not a commute one which I’d guesstimate as close to a bell shape, probably fat in the middle if not skewed to the shorter end.

And in your town, by definition only a very, very small proportion will be doing that edge to edge journey - as the ratio of those living at the circumfrance is a small fraction (2 / radius), and the proportion going to the opposite side will be vanishingly small. Again, as the stats always show, most journeys are small and intra town not inter town.
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

Post by Bryn666 »

marconaf wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 14:04
Herned wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 13:18
marconaf wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 23:12 You think people like sitting in traffic? Who are they? That most people are doing 3 hours travel per day?
The average commute in 2019 was 59 minutes. That means there are big numbers of people who do spend 3 hours each day. It's not just in big cities that it can take that sort of time. I live in a mid-sized town with ~70k population. It can comfortably take 45 minutes to cross the town at the wrong time of day
No, it really doesnt mean that.

The 59 mins is combined there and back, ie total.

For “big” numbers to be doing 3 hours a day (and originally this was 1.5 PLUS so its really 3*), then how is the average a mere third of that? That’s an impossible distribution, certainly not a commute one which I’d guesstimate as close to a bell shape, probably fat in the middle if not skewed to the shorter end.

And in your town, by definition only a very, very small proportion will be doing that edge to edge journey - as the ratio of those living at the circumfrance is a small fraction (2 / radius), and the proportion going to the opposite side will be vanishingly small. Again, as the stats always show, most journeys are small and intra town not inter town.
The average journey to or from work took 59 minutes last year, a study by Trades Union Congress (TUC) revealed.

To OR from. So that suggests 59 minutes each way. Otherwise they'd have said "it takes 29.5 minutes on average to get to work, and another 29.5 to get back".

You seem to be very triggered by the suggestion that people have long commutes. Why is that? Take a chill pill, you might live longer.

And if you are right, and most commutes are doable in less than 30 minutes then that suggests more people could cycle or walk to work then: https://www.cycling-embassy.org.uk/wiki ... ost-people

Either way, you're not selling the car commute to anyone.
Bryn
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She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

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Herned
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

Post by Herned »

marconaf wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 14:04 No, it really doesnt mean that.
You're right, on checking it and reading it properly it does mean both ways
marconaf wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 14:04 And in your town, by definition only a very, very small proportion will be doing that edge to edge journey - as the ratio of those living at the circumfrance is a small fraction (2 / radius), and the proportion going to the opposite side will be vanishingly small. Again, as the stats always show, most journeys are small and intra town not inter town.
I wasn't really suggesting that they were, just that traffic congestion and the failure to provide decent alternatives is a nationwide issue. The town itself does have some decent cycling infrastructure, but with glaring gaps in provision. Public transport, except in a couple of routes in and out is completely useless for the average working person. All these things need to be done better
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