Road Building Plans to be Halted?

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Richardf
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Road Building Plans to be Halted?

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My latest Road Photos https://flic.kr/s/aHsktQHcMB
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

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So where are all these nice new shiny EVs going to drive ?
I despair.
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

Post by jervi »

I don't understand why so many seem to hate the country they live in.
For the United Kingdom to support you (the people) with jobs, education, welfare, health, transport, high quality level of living. The country needs to be economically sound, which includes infrastructure that is fit-for-purpose. Much of the trunk road network is far from fit-for-purpose, and subsequently degrading our economy & quality of life.
One day these far lefties will wonder why we can no longer afford the same welfare and health we can today, and end up blaming Brexit instead of their anti-everything & pro-tree agenda.
In towns and cities I fully support prioritising cycle, walking & public transit schemes, even if they take away road space from other vehicles, however our Trunk Road Network (and PRN to extent) facilitates long distance journeys that are often unfeasible using other means, and as such need to be fit-for-purpose for their role. That is something they can't get into their oxygen wasting brains.
If they don't like us building new roads then they can move to China and tell the CCP to stop building their 7,000km of new Expressway every year.
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

Post by Fenlander »

It’s OK, we’ll all be flying everywhere in the future. https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/ ... ssion=true

Leeds Bradford Airport expansion plan is approved after eight hour planning meeting
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

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Fenlander wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 00:17 It’s OK, we’ll all be flying everywhere in the future. https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/ ... ssion=true

Leeds Bradford Airport expansion plan is approved after eight hour planning meeting
Which would be far more environmentally damaging than dualling a few miles of the A66 to stop people being killed in head on collisions.

The Greens opposing HS2 as well, the true colours are being shown, it's not about the environment, it's about hating movement.
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

Post by Uncle Buck »

A brilliant example of British planning at its worst. This will be like Heathrow expansion, electrification of the Great Western Line, HS2, M6 widening and new power stations- a necessary decision fudged and kicked down the road when some loudmouths start whining, and eventually dealt with by some rubbish half-measure at twice the price. Every other country in the world manages to plan its infrastructure, we never do.

I’ll admit to voting for him but one of Tony Blair’s worst legacies has been the judicialisation of government policy. Back in the day, it was understood that it was the job of politicians to weigh up the competing claims of different members of society and make a judgement as to where the balance should be struck. If you don’t like it, vote for someone else and we’ll see who wins. Now, if I don’t like something, I can sue the government, and come to a court, where an unelected judge is bound to consider things only in terms of my rights, with minimal reference to the rights of the community as a whole. It’s a recipe for empowering political activists and vested interests at the expense of the community as a whole. (Regardless of your view of Brexit, the most glaring example is the Gina Miller case). I just don’t understand why, if the government wants to build a road programme, somebody can sue them to stop it!

The Greens should be aware that this measure will do nothing to promote public transport, but will instead just make driving more dangerous and more unpleasant, and will increase traffic in non-bypassed villages. But as said by others, the Greens are not really about environmentalism.
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

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Bryn666 wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 00:58
Fenlander wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 00:17 It’s OK, we’ll all be flying everywhere in the future. https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/ ... ssion=true

Leeds Bradford Airport expansion plan is approved after eight hour planning meeting
Which would be far more environmentally damaging than dualling a few miles of the A66 to stop people being killed in head on collisions.

The Greens opposing HS2 as well, the true colours are being shown, it's not about the environment, it's about hating movement.
Precisely. I can see that an environmentalist might oppose road-building. But opposing a rail project whose effects should be encouraging people to use the train for intercity travel and freeing up capacity on the WCML for local and freight services- all of them electric? How does that work? Anyone would think they were more interested in performative politics...
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

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Bryn666 wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 00:58 The Greens opposing HS2 as well, the true colours are being shown, it's not about the environment, it's about hating movement.
I don't blame them. HS2 is a very poor use for stupid amounts of money that could be far better spent in other ways on the rail network.
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

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The really frustrating thing is that road building done well creates a safe environment for non motorised users - I'm sure residents of the communities along the bypassed A14 for example are pleased that cycling and walking is now safer and that there is no longer rat running past their houses and schools.



As Bryn's said, the A66 to reduce head-on collisions, and things like grade separation of rural strategic junctions to prevent crossover accidents. The real enemy is lazy housebuilding companies and flawed planning policy. Other countries like the Netherlands,Denmark and Germany have spent years improving their road networks by providing safer roads and non motorised facilities - we're sort of the poor relation...
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

Post by Chris Bertram »

I noticed a reference to
the campaign group Transport Action Network (TAN)
They're new to me, are they actually a new part of the hydra-headed anti-roads lobby, or an existing group adopting a snazzy new (and very misleading) name?
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

Post by Bryn666 »

Steven wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 07:18
Bryn666 wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 00:58 The Greens opposing HS2 as well, the true colours are being shown, it's not about the environment, it's about hating movement.
I don't blame them. HS2 is a very poor use for stupid amounts of money that could be far better spent in other ways on the rail network.
Well yes, but it seems quite apparent the goal is to just stop any construction, period. They keep trotting out the tired old "but coronavirus has removed the need to travel", no, it's removed the need to commute. There are still millions of other reasons people may wish to travel.
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

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New roads can bring great benefits.
The new A14 is safer and faster than the old route. Pollution in Huntingdon is probably lower, although I'm qualifying this because Ermine street is much busier and I'm unsure of the environmental impact of the demolition works.

We now also recognise that the environmental impact of urban motorways / dual carriageways is huge and that a number of cities (Birmingham and Leicester for starters) have now removed links in their inner ring roads to reduce the environmental impact.

I am a great believer in doing things properly. The planning for these roads was not always done properly.
In the next few years, we are likely to see a shift in sources of energy provision, ways of working and modes of transport. We do need to try to make sure that new developments are fit for the future as well as now.

The county council has finally decided to resurface the road from my house to the rest of the world. This is good, it had potentially cyclist killing potholes. I am also now aware of the immense environmental impact of just half a kilometres new tarmac. If the investment last half a century it will probably be worthwhile.
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

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Just the Guardian making a mountain out of a molehill as usual. The current action is modelled on the Heathrow challenge that was rejected by the Supreme Court in December. It will go the same way.
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

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jackal wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:22 Just the Guardian making a mountain out of a molehill as usual. The current action is modelled on the Heathrow challenge that was rejected by the Supreme Court in December. It will go the same way.
At the very worst it just means a load of consultants get paid to do some more EIAs that justify the schemes. The notion that you 'can't build anything' because of the climate is completely incompatible with other human needs like safe housing and functional transport.

It might mean we pay more than basic lip service to what we plonk alongside new roads, trees are not a bad thing.
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

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Bryn666 wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:51
jackal wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:22 Just the Guardian making a mountain out of a molehill as usual. The current action is modelled on the Heathrow challenge that was rejected by the Supreme Court in December. It will go the same way.
At the very worst it just means a load of consultants get paid to do some more EIAs that justify the schemes. The notion that you 'can't build anything' because of the climate is completely incompatible with other human needs like safe housing and functional transport.

It might mean we pay more than basic lip service to what we plonk alongside new roads, trees are not a bad thing.
Yes, how about proper embankments full of plantings, rather than retaining walls right up to the carriageway boundary...
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

Post by thatapanydude »

In my opinion I would support large cuts in road spending with likes of the A2/M25 upgrade, Newark Bypass, all smart motorways getting the chop if it meant strong savings in light of covid !

Roads cut have to play it’s part and in particular those schemes listed are inadequate in its current proposed form.

Re. The environmental issue just ask the residents of Sandy & Beeston and how an A1 bypass would massively help environmentally !!
A1/A1(M) >>> M1
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

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Uncle Buck wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 01:45 A brilliant example of British planning at its worst. This will be like Heathrow expansion, electrification of the Great Western Line, HS2, M6 widening and new power stations- a necessary decision fudged and kicked down the road when some loudmouths start whining, and eventually dealt with by some rubbish half-measure at twice the price. Every other country in the world manages to plan its infrastructure, we never do.

I’ll admit to voting for him but one of Tony Blair’s worst legacies has been the judicialisation of government policy. Back in the day, it was understood that it was the job of politicians to weigh up the competing claims of different members of society and make a judgement as to where the balance should be struck. If you don’t like it, vote for someone else and we’ll see who wins. Now, if I don’t like something, I can sue the government, and come to a court, where an unelected judge is bound to consider things only in terms of my rights, with minimal reference to the rights of the community as a whole. It’s a recipe for empowering political activists and vested interests at the expense of the community as a whole. (Regardless of your view of Brexit, the most glaring example is the Gina Miller case). I just don’t understand why, if the government wants to build a road programme, somebody can sue them to stop it!

The Greens should be aware that this measure will do nothing to promote public transport, but will instead just make driving more dangerous and more unpleasant, and will increase traffic in non-bypassed villages. But as said by others, the Greens are not really about environmentalism.
I agree. Democracies have a mandate from the wider electorate, whereas pressure groups are a focused (and obsessed) minority of people who don't represent the wider population.

The new road or railway might violate someone's human rights, but not building the same road of railway will then violate someone else's human rights. It's for the government to make this balance call. If they get it wrong, then they'll get voted out
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

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c2R wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:55
Bryn666 wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:51
jackal wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:22 Just the Guardian making a mountain out of a molehill as usual. The current action is modelled on the Heathrow challenge that was rejected by the Supreme Court in December. It will go the same way.
At the very worst it just means a load of consultants get paid to do some more EIAs that justify the schemes. The notion that you 'can't build anything' because of the climate is completely incompatible with other human needs like safe housing and functional transport.

It might mean we pay more than basic lip service to what we plonk alongside new roads, trees are not a bad thing.
Yes, how about proper embankments full of plantings, rather than retaining walls right up to the carriageway boundary...
Oh, you've seen M49 J1 then, where it's supposedly innovative to not have earthworks but rather make the junction look completely unnatural! That's before you get to the fact nothing connects to it.
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

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thatapanydude wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:56 In my opinion I would support large cuts in road spending with likes of the A2/M25 upgrade, Newark Bypass, all smart motorways getting the chop if it meant strong savings in light of covid !

Roads cut have to play it’s part and in particular those schemes listed are inadequate in its current proposed form.

Re. The environmental issue just ask the residents of Sandy & Beeston and how an A1 bypass would massively help environmentally !!
However, public works have a part to play in getting an economy going again after the twin shocks of brexit and covid - if you're building stuff, you're employing people and creating better infrastructure at the same time, rather than paying people job-seekers allowance. Yes, I agree that there's a load of debt to pay back and this is just adding to it, but the people you're paying will then go on and buy other goods and services, as will the people who work fabricating signs and making crash barriers and providing plantings, to those extracting raw materials.....

Also,with interest rates so low, borrowing doesn't really matter a great deal at the moment to fund it....
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Re: Road Building Plans to be Halted?

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Bryn666 wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:04
Oh, you've seen M49 J1 then, where it's supposedly innovative to not have earthworks but rather make the junction look completely unnatural! That's before you get to the fact nothing connects to it.
I have indeed seen its oddness several times over its construction. The only good thing about it is the nice NMU provision threaded through it...
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