Replacement of concrete roads

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jervi
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Replacement of concrete roads

Post by jervi »

A Highways England Press release today for "multi-million pound initiative to revitalise ageing concrete roads" with an associated YouTube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjRuNyaKPAw
  • £400 million over the next 5 years (RP2)
  • £218 million of that will be used to demolish existing concrete road surfaces that are in a poor condition and replace with a new smoother surface. Doesn't specify replacement as concrete or tarmac, although I'd imagine it to be the latter.
  • £67 million of that will be used to repair and maximise the life of existing concrete roads.
  • £37 million of that will be for Design Framework
  • Parts of the A12 & A11 will be done this Summer/Spring
More information on the scheme can be found here, however it doesn't specify what roads will be done in this first concrete roads programme.
I'm hoping the remaining concrete sections of the M25 can be replaced!
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Re: Replacement of concrete roads

Post by WHBM »

Wasn't exactly the same thing announced about 20 years ago (Highways Agency then) ?
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ChrisH
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Re: Replacement of concrete roads

Post by ChrisH »

One of the main contractors is Tarmac, which might give a clue to the replacement road surface :D
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jervi
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Re: Replacement of concrete roads

Post by jervi »

ChrisH wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 14:43 One of the main contractors is Tarmac, which might give a clue to the replacement road surface :D
That's why I'd imagine it to be Tarmac, but the language of the press release only says "smoother surface", which doesn't exclude new concrete as being an option. If all of these concrete roads (in the programme) were being replaced with Tarmac I'd suspect they would of said "Tarmac surface" or alike instead of "smoother surface". However I'd imagine that the majority of the schemes will be replacing concrete with Tarmac, however a small number of them will be replaced with new concrete instead for whatever reasons.
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Re: Replacement of concrete roads

Post by wrinkly »

WHBM wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 14:17 Wasn't exactly the same thing announced about 20 years ago (Highways Agency then) ?
I think that was about covering concrete surfaces with tarmac in places where the noise had attracted the most complaints, while what's happening now is the start of a l_o_n_g programme of full-depth reconstruction of all concrete roads in the SRN. I seem to remember it was described better in the RIS2 strategy document a year ago than in the new press release.
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Re: Replacement of concrete roads

Post by Runwell »

They repaired the Kelvedon stretch of the A12 late last year via a series of weekend and overnight closures. If that section wasn't set to be diverted, I would have thought it would have been replaced, as the road really is showing its age.

The section between Marks Tey and Stanway is due to be completely replaced with tarmac towards the end of the year, after 50 years in situ.

Unsurprisingly, given it's one of the later builds, the Chelmsford bypass is just getting repaired. Not sure on the Ingatestone stretch, but this was in a pretty poor condition the last time I used it.
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Re: Replacement of concrete roads

Post by jervi »

Roads included in the concrete roads programme are:
Reconstruction:
A12 J25 - J26 (3 miles £26.6m)
A12 J25 NB only (1.4 miles £4.9m)
A14 J47 - J49 (8.2 miles £36m)
A11 Spooner Row to Tuttles (9.8 miles £61.5m)
M27 J5 - J7 (7.4 miles £44m)
A12 Margaretting (3.2 miles £33.4m)
Life Extension Works:
M20 J8-J9 (16.5 miles £0.8m)
A46 Sixhills to Widmerpool (11.2 miles £12.6m)
A12 J15 to J19 (15.8 miles £17.9m)
M180 (6 miles £0.4m)
M18 J6 to J7 (9.2 miles £2.7m)
M54 J5 to J2 EB only (13.8 miles £3.8m)
A11 Tuttle’s to Thickthorn (6.8 miles £7.5m)

Reconstruction will typically have a blacktop finish.
It appears that life extension works fall under two different types. Those costing ~£1.1m/mile, and those costing considerably less. I'm going to guess that those costing more are going to have treatment work along the entire length, while others may only works at the joints and/or localised repairs. Shame to not see that the M25 will not be getting any attention.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... sthrough=1
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Re: Replacement of concrete roads

Post by mikehindsonevans »

wrinkly wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 15:03
WHBM wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 14:17 Wasn't exactly the same thing announced about 20 years ago (Highways Agency then) ?
I think that was about covering concrete surfaces with tarmac in places where the noise had attracted the most complaints, while what's happening now is the start of a l_o_n_g programme of full-depth reconstruction of all concrete roads in the SRN. I seem to remember it was described better in the RIS2 strategy document a year ago than in the new press release.
Oh please don't do that! The new A27 alignment east from Havant, towards Chichester, was a concrete road. Subsequently, it was covered in thick tarmac - which then broke off after a few years, leaving two-inch-deep "potholes".
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Re: Replacement of concrete roads

Post by Chris5156 »

mikehindsonevans wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:24
wrinkly wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 15:03I think that was about covering concrete surfaces with tarmac in places where the noise had attracted the most complaints, while what's happening now is the start of a l_o_n_g programme of full-depth reconstruction of all concrete roads in the SRN. I seem to remember it was described better in the RIS2 strategy document a year ago than in the new press release.
Oh please don't do that! The new A27 alignment east from Havant, towards Chichester, was a concrete road. Subsequently, it was covered in thick tarmac - which then broke off after a few years, leaving two-inch-deep "potholes".
Full depth reconstruction is very different to placing a layer of tarmac over the concrete, as described by wrinkly.

A tarmac overlay will almost always break up, because it's a flexible surface laid over inflexible blocks and expansion joints. Full depth reconstruction will take away the concrete and rebuild the road from the base layer upwards as a conventional tarmac road.
jervi wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 09:28Shame to not see that the M25 will not be getting any attention.
Presumably because it's maintained by a private company on behalf of HE, and reconstructing the road doesn't figure in the contract.
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Re: Replacement of concrete roads

Post by darkcape »

Chris5156 wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:14 Full depth reconstruction is very different to placing a layer of tarmac over the concrete, as described by wrinkly.

A tarmac overlay will almost always break up, because it's a flexible surface laid over inflexible blocks and expansion joints. Full depth reconstruction will take away the concrete and rebuild the road from the base layer upwards as a conventional tarmac road.
Not necessarily - the key is to install movement joints, usually a bitumen-filled saw cut, that coincide with the concrete slab joints. The M42 J9-10 was overlaid about ten years ago like this and seems to have survived.

Very surprised that the A46 Six Hills-Widermerpool is only to have life-extension works as this must be one of the worst sections in the country.
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Re: Replacement of concrete roads

Post by jervi »

darkcape wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 22:45 Very surprised that the A46 Six Hills-Widermerpool is only to have life-extension works as this must be one of the worst sections in the country.
That part of the A46 is horrid in terms of safety so maybe there are longer term plans for this section to bring it up to "expressway" standards (controlled access, new LARs etc)? In that case spending £1.1m/mile to extend its life by a few decades is better then £10m+/mile only for it to be ripped up any time before its usual life span.
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Re: Replacement of concrete roads

Post by skiddaw05 »

Some discussion on concrete road resurfacing here
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=42290
I mentioned on there the A47 Dereham bypass which was overlaid with asphalt with saw cut joints on top of the concrete ones a few years ago and is still holding up
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Re: Replacement of concrete roads

Post by BOH »

And yet there has been and still ongoing, major works to (not very) Smart motorway works on the M27 J5-7 since 2017 and they haven't replaced the concrete! In fact they have added to it because the widening has laid down yet more concrete surface :o
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Re: Replacement of concrete roads

Post by jervi »


NH released video for their Concrete Roads Programme
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Re: Replacement of concrete roads

Post by danfw194 »

jervi wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 00:24
darkcape wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 22:45 Very surprised that the A46 Six Hills-Widermerpool is only to have life-extension works as this must be one of the worst sections in the country.
That part of the A46 is horrid in terms of safety so maybe there are longer term plans for this section to bring it up to "expressway" standards (controlled access, new LARs etc)? In that case spending £1.1m/mile to extend its life by a few decades is better then £10m+/mile only for it to be ripped up any time before its usual life span.
I concur with both of you, the concrete itself is horrendous, and the entire stretch is frankly dangerous beyond the surface. The contrast in quality between this stretch and the new road north of Widmerpool is as stark as you can possibly imagine.
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the cheesecake man
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Re: Replacement of concrete roads

Post by the cheesecake man »

WHBM wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 14:17 Wasn't exactly the same thing announced about 20 years ago (Highways Agency then) ?
They did get rid of some around then, in particular A1 near Newark which was very noisy.
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Re: Replacement of concrete roads

Post by Jonathan24 »

This section of old concrete road was resurfaced a few years ago and the way they dealt with it was to lay down a membrane and then the tarmac on top of that, so that the tarmac could move independently of the concrete underneath. It seems to be working so far and has resulted in a much smoother, quieter surface.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.60412 ... 384!8i8192
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Re: Replacement of concrete roads

Post by Al__S »

ChrisH wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 14:43 One of the main contractors is Tarmac, which might give a clue to the replacement road surface :D
a little late to this, but:
https://tarmac.com/products/concrete/
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Re: Replacement of concrete roads

Post by darkcape »

Jonathan24 wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 19:59 This section of old concrete road was resurfaced a few years ago and the way they dealt with it was to lay down a membrane and then the tarmac on top of that, so that the tarmac could move independently of the concrete underneath. It seems to be working so far and has resulted in a much smoother, quieter surface.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.60412 ... 384!8i8192
Glassgrid is one such reinforcing product. I'm sure something similar would've been used on the Sydenham bypass in your link.
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Re: Replacement of concrete roads

Post by Conekicker »

Is "crack and seat" no longer flavour of the month then? A very common method of sorting out concrete carriageways a few years back.
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