British Roundabout "Etiquette"

[Bryn666]

Both before and after the introduction of the present roundabout priority rule, some roundabouts had signs and/or markings giving priority to a particular route, usually reinforcing the fact that that route had a straight run. My own private terminology for these is "tangent-about". Before the construction of the M56 there was one of these at the A56/A556 junction; the straight north-to-south run, for traffic from the Altrincham direction to the Northwich direction, had top priority; for movements not encountering this route it was more like an ordinary roundabout.

One of these still exists in Horwich, where the A673 takes priority through what should just be a normal roundabout. I've complained about it several times to no avail.

[roadtester]

On roundabouts (I mean normal ones to which the current rule of giving way to traffic already circulating applies), there is also a clear difference in etiquette between countries. If you are turning left or right at an upcoming roundabout, in the UK you are taught to signal appropriately on the approach, and then (if turning right) switch to signalling left as you pass the exit before the one you intend to take. If going straight on, you don't signal on approach, and signal left as you pass the exit before yours. In Germany, on the other hand, it is apparently not the done thing to signal on approach; you simply signal right as you pass the exit before yours.

I don't know what the actual rule for Germany is but what you describe really would only work on simple single lane roundabouts.

In the UK, we have roundabouts with up to three or four lanes carrying huge amounts of traffic, a set up that requires drivers to pre-position themselves in the correct lane on the approach to the roundabout, and advertise their intentions to other drivers well in advance as well. In that situation a system in which indicating was restricted to a single last-minute signal at the relevant exit would cause absolute chaos.

IME Germans (and TBF most people who aren't British) do indeed have a real problem understanding multi-lane roundabouts. A German friend of mine was trying to get it on a UK road trip we did together (me driving), and he just couldn't understand the lane-changing within the roundabout this involved, especially if turning right, when a driver has to start on the inside and spiral outwards to the outside lane just before his/her exit. He was saying stuff like "surely the best thing to do is to just pick one lane at the beginning - he had the outside lane in mind - and stay in that all the way round?"

I had to explain that that would be a bit like driving with your caravan in the outside lane of the Autobahn at 70km/h.

[Steven]

Both before and after the introduction of the present roundabout priority rule, some roundabouts had signs and/or markings giving priority to a particular route, usually reinforcing the fact that that route had a straight run. My own private terminology for these is "tangent-about". Before the construction of the M56 there was one of these at the A56/A556 junction; the straight north-to-south run, for traffic from the Altrincham direction to the Northwich direction, had top priority; for movements not encountering this route it was more like an ordinary roundabout.

One of these still exists in Horwich, where the A673 takes priority through what should just be a normal roundabout. I've complained about it several times to no avail.

Yeah, there's a few dotted around the place. The A454 on the west side of Wolverhampton has one; and there used to be one on the A460 on the NE side as well.

[Chris Bertram]

Both before and after the introduction of the present roundabout priority rule, some roundabouts had signs and/or markings giving priority to a particular route, usually reinforcing the fact that that route had a straight run. My own private terminology for these is "tangent-about". Before the construction of the M56 there was one of these at the A56/A556 junction; the straight north-to-south run, for traffic from the Altrincham direction to the Northwich direction, had top priority; for movements not encountering this route it was more like an ordinary roundabout.

One of these still exists in Horwich, where the A673 takes priority through what should just be a normal roundabout. I've complained about it several times to no avail.

Yeah, there's a few dotted around the place. The A454 on the west side of Wolverhampton has one; and there used to be one on the A460 on the NE side as well.

That's the Compton roundabout, I know it well. The roundabout in Longbridge in Birmingham where A38 turns the corner has traffic wanting to turn right onto B4120 giving way to A38 traffic heading SW.

[Isleworth1961]

About this time "uncontrolled cross roads", a similar arrangement, also began to disappear - for those who didn't know them, these, particularly back streets in towns, had no markings or indication of priority either.

While it may not have been a crossroads, I remember the Give Way markings being painted at the end of our road, which was a 1930s suburban development, some time in the 1960s. Previously there were no markings at either end of the road, so I asked my dad why they had been painted there.

[FosseWay]

I actually think that it should be formally abandoned here in favour of "proceed with caution", i.e. without giving any movement explicit priority. This means that everyone has to pay attention, and you eliminate the issue you get at chicanes where a problem caused by someone ignoring the "oncoming traffic has priority" sign is exacerbated by the person whose priority has been infringed becoming aggressive and increasing both risk and obstruction.

A proportion of drivers are not traffic engineering-knowledgeable like us lot and just not ready for "everyone has to pay attention", for them it's priority or not. This is part of the failure of Shared Space, where there is no explicit priority but you see some inappropriate behaviour - the last time I was at the one outside Sloane Square Underground https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4922526 ... 384!8i8192 someone blasted through with the horn.

A proportion of drivers will ignore "yield to oncoming vehicles" signs and the general rule that if the road narrows or is obstructed on your side, you give way to oncoming traffic. I suspect the Venn diagram of people who do this and the people who barge through regardless even if there is no signage is fairly high. Some people are plonkers and/or aggressive. I am not convinced that the presence or absence of this kind of signage makes a gnat's crotchet of difference, since (a) those who will ignore it will ignore basic courtesy and common sense, as stated; (b) enforcement is non-existent; and (c) in the kind of environment we're talking about, we're unlikely to see insurance-driven demands for enforcement or change, because there are unlikely to be serious accidents.

At least as much of a problem as people going through bottlenecks against the explicit signage is people whom the signage gives priority but who conveniently ignore the bit in the HC dealing with such bottlenecks that says "allow traffic already in the narrow section to clear before entering". They just see "my priority" and all common sense goes out the window. If there is no signage, then there is no reason for traffic in either direction to assume priority. Those who aggressively push through anyway will still do that, but all the people who tend to drive fairly competently most of the time until something triggers them because "it's not fair" or "it's my priority" will not get triggered if the signage isn't there.

Basically what I'm arguing for is no assumed priority at all on the roadway in 30 km/h or 20 mph areas.

The shared streets thing, and more generally how motor vehicles and pedestrians interact, is a bit different.

[Stevie D]

One of these still exists in Horwich, where the A673 takes priority through what should just be a normal roundabout. I've complained about it several times to no avail.

It is not alone! There is a similar junction between relatively minor roads in York, where one incoming road has priority over traffic on the roundabout: https://goo.gl/maps/ixQEaESyWc4UK2VF7. And of course, there is the infamous Warren Hill junction between A614 and A6097: https://goo.gl/maps/uGymW8BcP21LyP9CA

[SteveA30]

A38/A370 used to be priority to A38 both ways. A30/A303 at Micheldever was priority for A30-A303 west or A303-A30 east. A322/A332 near Bagshot had priority as shown and vice versa. I think the one near Kenilworth for A4177 to A452 is still the same.

[exiled]

I had a discussion on Facebook with someone about roundabouts in the UK and whether or not there was in their beginning a different rule about entering them? I was convinced that I had discovered a couple of years ago that until the mid-Sixties traffic entering a "Traffic Circle" as it appears to have been called had priority. I can not find an actual statement about this anywhere but it is clear that giving way to traffic on a roundabout became the norm in the mid-Sixties. Can anyone clarify this for me?

Are you sure that this isn't a confusion about France, which originally had that rule - and indeed roundabouts in France now include signage like "vous n'avez pas la priorité" and "cédéz le passage" on the entries - though there doesn't seem to be consistency on the wording that's used!

France now has the highest number of roundabouts in the world, using 'conventional' priority, so the "vous n'avez pas la priorité" text has now been discontinued (in 2002 apparently!). "Cédez la passage" remains underneath give way signs, because it's impossible to neatly fit into an inverted triangle (unlike GIVE WAY).

An interesting combination here https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@49.20064 ... 312!8i6656 in Caen's suburbs, where rue du Regiment du 1er Hussards Canadiens meets rue du Lieutenant Thomas WIndsor. The junction is laid out as a roundabout, there is a central ring. But is priorite a droit, right after is a roundabout sign saying per the 1983 Code de la Route that the traffic on the roundabout will have priority.

[roadtester]

Are you sure that this isn't a confusion about France, which originally had that rule - and indeed roundabouts in France now include signage like "vous n'avez pas la priorité" and "cédéz le passage" on the entries - though there doesn't seem to be consistency on the wording that's used!

France now has the highest number of roundabouts in the world, using 'conventional' priority, so the "vous n'avez pas la priorité" text has now been discontinued (in 2002 apparently!). "Cédez la passage" remains underneath give way signs, because it's impossible to neatly fit into an inverted triangle (unlike GIVE WAY).

An interesting combination here https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@49.20064 ... 312!8i6656 in Caen's suburbs, where rue du Regiment du 1er Hussards Canadiens meets rue du Lieutenant Thomas WIndsor. The junction is laid out as a roundabout, there is a central ring. But is priorite a droit, right after is a roundabout sign saying per the 1983 Code de la Route that the traffic on the roundabout will have priority.

That looks like a decorative paving feature rather than a roundabout!

[ravenbluemoon]

And of course, there is the infamous Warren Hill junction between A614 and A6097: https://goo.gl/maps/uGymW8BcP21LyP9CA

Which, sadly, is getting remodelled into a standard priority roundabout - as detailed here: A614 Notts Improvements

[traffic-light-man]

It's interesting to see there are actually a fair few circulatory give-ways kicking around - they're another one of those things where I can list lots locally, but few further afield (off the top of my head, anyway).

The ones that spring to mind instantly are:
West Derby Road/Muirhead Avenue, Liverpool
Childwall Road/Wavertree High Street, Liverpool
Newton Road/Broadoak Road, St Helens
Gorsey Lane/Kingsway Tunnel Approach, Wirral
Leasowe Road/Wallasey Village, Wirral
And these two (one and two) on Harrison Drive, Wirral.
Waterloo Road/Liverpool Road, Southport - this one has two on the same roundabout, which definitely applies priority to the A565.

You can see why I was starting to think they were a bit of a Merseyside speciality!

[exiled]

That looks like a decorative paving feature rather than a roundabout!

Roundabout as art, this is France after all. Then again, France does seem to plan commercial zones on the 'throw lego bricks at a map' approach and even on toll-free motorways the junctions can be a bit bizarre.

[Big L]

Hagley Road, Birmingham where westbound A456 gets to fly through but eastbound has to give way. Looks like another example directly to the southeast.

[Chris Bertram]

Hagley Road, Birmingham where westbound A456 gets to fly through but eastbound has to give way. Looks like another example directly to the southeast.

I should have remembered that one, been through it loads of times. The junction just to the south, however, is too cramped to seem like a roundabout.

[jervi]

There's are few places I know of where the priority isn't on the roundabout.
A29 & A281 near Horsham
Beare Green Roundabout A24 & A29 although this is more like a longabout.
A505 & B656 in Hitchin.

[owen b]

There's are few places I know of where the priority isn't on the roundabout.
A29 & A281 near Horsham
Beare Green Roundabout A24 & A29 although this is more like a longabout.
A505 & B656 in Hitchin.

A167 where it meets the A177 northbound on the outskirts of Durham is another one. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.75256 ... 312!8i6656

[Chris5156]

The priority at roundabouts was indeed introduced in the late 1960s, I can just about remember it coming in. Until then there was no rule (hence the old London cabbie expression "comply roundabout", with no reference to what the priority might be). It coincided with the placing of Give Way lines. The earliest ones were supplemented by Give Way signs, but these soon disappeared. It took several years to introduce the markings. Once established, mini-roundabouts, with a small or non-existent weaving area, came along.

Earlier than the use of Give Way signs were specific pre-Worboys GIVE WAY TO TRAFFIC FROM RIGHT signs, which were like an inverted triangle in shape, but with a rounded-off bottom. They were introduced from the late 1950s, but only case by case. Blanket conversion of roundabouts to the present priority rule came later.

About this time "uncontrolled cross roads", a similar arrangement, also began to disappear - for those who didn't know them, these, particularly back streets in towns, had no markings or indication of priority either. Old driving tests always took you through a couple and expected appropriate caution to be shown.

My driving test in 2006 involved passing through a couple, so it's not that old. They still exist in urban areas too; here's one in suburban Guildford.

[multiraider2]

On the A235 round what was, I think, at one time the RAC control centre. Priority not with circling traffic in a couple of places:

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.3450852 ... a=!3m1!1e3

[domcoop]

My driving test in 2006 involved passing through a couple, so it's not that old. They still exist in urban areas too; here's one in suburban Guildford.

Yes I covered one in driving lessons in Morecambe / Heysham in 1997, as it may have come up in the driving test, although in the end it didn't. Must have been a rare road feature even then, though, because it's quite an obscure place to use https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.06460 ... a=!3m1!1e3 in the middle of some residential streets and nearly 5 miles away from the driving test centre. Looking on Google Maps, they've put give way markings on the road in the intervening period, so I'm guessing there's none left in the area!

It's interesting to see there are actually a fair few circulatory give-ways kicking around - they're another one of those things where I can list lots locally, but few further afield (off the top of my head, anyway).

The ones that spring to mind instantly are:
West Derby Road/Muirhead Avenue, Liverpool
Childwall Road/Wavertree High Street, Liverpool
Newton Road/Broadoak Road, St Helens
Gorsey Lane/Kingsway Tunnel Approach, Wirral
Leasowe Road/Wallasey Village, Wirral
And these two (one and two) on Harrison Drive, Wirral.
Waterloo Road/Liverpool Road, Southport - this one has two on the same roundabout, which definitely applies priority to the A565.

You can see why I was starting to think they were a bit of a Merseyside speciality!

Another St Helens one (although in a quiet residential area, I can not see how this possibly serves any purpose at all!). https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.47429 ... a=!3m1!1e3