Humber Bridge foot/cycle way closed indefinitely.

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M19
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Re: Humber Bridge foot/cycle way closed indefinitely.

Post by M19 »

When I was in Hull for meetings I would often not rush back home back to Gateshead and go for a bit of an explore, so one evening I found myself at the Humber Bridge and took a few picks to try out a new telephoto lens I got as a present.

https://flic.kr/p/5ofsvm
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Re: Humber Bridge foot/cycle way closed indefinitely.

Post by Jim606 »

From Road CC https://road.cc/content/news/mixed-mess ... dge-282333
Humber Bridge staff tell cyclist he can ride across it on main carriageway … police at other end tell him he can’t
Bridge owners explain why footways were closed since weekend and say they hope to restore access to commuters soon
by SIMON_MACMICHAEL TUE, APR 06, 2021 16:57


A cyclist has said he received mixed messages when he set out to ride across the Humber Bridge on Sunday – with security staff telling him that, with the footways closed, he could do so using the main carriageway, only for traffic police at the other end telling him he should not have ridden across it.

Meanwhile the owners of the bridge, which spans the Humber Estuary near Kingston-upon-Hull, who closed the footways on Saturday due to an unspecified “recent incident,” have clarified that they did so as an “emergency response” following several recent suicides. “I also rang Humber Bridge Board to clarify whether they were offering a free shuttle service across the bridge or conning off a lane on the road. Another wasted call really speaking with the controllers – clearly no-one knew what was going on. I showed up ready to ride across, at the ramp I was greeted by someone from security who said if you want to cross they expect you to use the main carriageway. So hopping over the barrier a little bit further up I did just that, halfway across the bridge, a private security van caught up with me and by the end I reached the other side of the bridge I was being bothered by traffic police. They told me I should not have crossed, so naturally I explained how I came to cross over and then proceeded to ask what about people who bikes who commute to work? What is the Humber Bridge Board doing to secure their safety?”

Mr Lake, who in the video said he “wouldn’t recommend” crossing the bridge on the dual carriageway due to the gusts of wind he experienced while passing under its arches, added that he hopes the bridge will be reopened “sooner rather than later – I don’t want to be known as the last person to ride across it.”

In a statement, a spokesperson from the Humber Bridge Board said: “We understand closing the footways has been a controversial decision that has not attracted universal support, but we would like to reassure the public that it has been taken as an emergency response to the unprecedented and deeply troubling events at the Humber Bridge over recent weeks. It is no secret that there has been a spate of people – mostly young people from the local area – who have decided to end their lives at the bridge. Closing the footways is the most immediate and effective way to prevent further incidents of this nature, and this was our sole consideration when making the decision. As well as protecting emotionally distressed individuals, the measure has been implemented to protect our staff and the public. When these tragic events occur, our staff are the first responders and have to deal with some extremely distressing and traumatic situations. We have a duty to minimise their exposure to such incidents to protect their mental health and wellbeing.
The Humber Bridge Board currently spends a quarter of a million pounds each year on measures designed to prevent emotionally distressed individuals from ending their lives at the bridge. Until last month these measures have been largely effective. However, the recent tragic events are unlike anything we have previously dealt with, and we are working closely with Public Health, local MPs, local authorities, emergency services, the Samaritans, Hull and East Yorkshire Mind and other stakeholders to fully understand them and assess the future risk. While this is ongoing, the footways must remain closed to the general public.”


The statement concluded by saying that the Humber Bridge Board is “looking at reopening access to commuters as soon as possible, to minimise disruption to those who cycle or walk to work over the Humber Bridge, and we are considering a range of measures to ensure the situation can be effectively managed once the footways fully reopen.”

Alex Holdaway, interim strategic communications manager at Sustrans, said that the sustainable transport charity’s “role as custodians of the National Cycle Network (NCN) is to care for, improve and champion a long-term vision for the future of the network. “However, the charity only owns approximately 4 per cent of the NCN, with the majority belonging to various landowners who are ultimately responsible for their own stretch and are able to restrict access as they see fit. Our Network Development Manager is in touch with the Humber Bridge Board to establish what the plan is,” she added.
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Re: Humber Bridge foot/cycle way closed indefinitely.

Post by Mark Hewitt »

The concern is a warranted and important one. However it's not acceptable to simply close a route which may be vital to people's employment without a viable alternative.

It should go without saying that if they are attempting a closure of this nature then the likes of a shuttle service van needs to have been put in place *before* the closure happened.

I doubt that if the bridge was closed to motor traffic there would be this throwing of hands up and not knowing what to do.

Someone committed suicide at my local railway station just last week. Is the station closed? Of course not.

But because it's 'only' bikes it doesn't matter.
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Re: Humber Bridge foot/cycle way closed indefinitely.

Post by FosseWay »

^^ This, basically.

Suicide is an important issue. Moreover, the Humber Bridge Board cannot themselves practically contribute to dealing with the underlying issues of why people feel suicidal in the first place, but can only respond to the behaviour and needs of distressed individuals when they've already started along the path to taking their life. But measures taken to protect one group should not adversely affect another group if it is reasonably practical to avoid affecting that group. If the suicide problem is sufficiently serious, it warrants money and resources throwing at it to reduce it. If you're not willing to throw the necessary resources at the problem in a targeted way that does not affect everyone else, then *by definition* you are saying the problem is not worth that level of intervention. You really can't have it both ways.

In this case, the reasonably practical measures the HBB could have introduced is security guards on duty at times when people are most likely to jump. They can clearly post security guards to stop people cycling; why can't they post people to stop people jumping?

Also, it's fundamentally unacceptable for someone at one end of the bridge to tell a cyclist to use the carriageway and someone at the other end to tell them they shouldn't have. They need to get their facts straight *before* it becomes a live situation. Ignorance is no defence for us mortals; it shouldn't be for the people creating or enforcing rules either.
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Re: Humber Bridge foot/cycle way closed indefinitely.

Post by Mark Hewitt »

Would it not be entirely reasonable for said security to allow cyclists to cross but prevent people walking across and instead direct them to a bus service?

"Well someone intending to jump could just bring a bike". Yes. And someone could just bring a car too considering the road is open.
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Re: Humber Bridge foot/cycle way closed indefinitely.

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Mark Hewitt wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:21But because it's 'only' bikes it doesn't matter.
Quite. It's a pretty clear indication that the Humber Bridge Board consider the purpose of their bridge to be the flow of motor traffic, and that the paths used for walking and cycling are - to them - a recreational facility, not a serious mode of transport.
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Re: Humber Bridge foot/cycle way closed indefinitely.

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Chris5156 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:13
Mark Hewitt wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:21But because it's 'only' bikes it doesn't matter.
Quite. It's a pretty clear indication that the Humber Bridge Board consider the purpose of their bridge to be the flow of motor traffic, and that the paths used for walking and cycling are - to them - a recreational facility, not a serious mode of transport.
Wild guess here. Bikes are free.
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Re: Humber Bridge foot/cycle way closed indefinitely.

Post by Truvelo »

Chris5156 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:13
Mark Hewitt wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:21But because it's 'only' bikes it doesn't matter.
Quite. It's a pretty clear indication that the Humber Bridge Board consider the purpose of their bridge to be the flow of motor traffic, and that the paths used for walking and cycling are - to them - a recreational facility, not a serious mode of transport.
That's probably true though isn't it? I can't imagine anyone walking or cycling across it to go shopping as there are supermarkets both sides of the bridge and anyone who lives and works on opposite sides will almost certainly drive or use a bus.
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Re: Humber Bridge foot/cycle way closed indefinitely.

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Truvelo wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:24
Chris5156 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:13
Mark Hewitt wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:21But because it's 'only' bikes it doesn't matter.
Quite. It's a pretty clear indication that the Humber Bridge Board consider the purpose of their bridge to be the flow of motor traffic, and that the paths used for walking and cycling are - to them - a recreational facility, not a serious mode of transport.
That's probably true though isn't it? I can't imagine anyone walking or cycling across it to go shopping as there are supermarkets both sides of the bridge and anyone who lives and works on opposite sides will almost certainly drive or use a bus.
It's certainly true that more people will be commuting or making "serious" journeys over the bridge by motor vehicle, and more of the people using the footpaths will be exercising or enjoying a day out. But you are either in the business of providing for those journeys or you aren't, and the Humber Bridge is. As the operator, the HBB has a duty to provide a way over the river for the modes of transport it supports. It shouldn't be able to just remove access on a whim and without consultation or legislation.
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Re: Humber Bridge foot/cycle way closed indefinitely.

Post by c2R »

There are people that commute by bike over the bridge, particularly in the summer months. House prices on the south side of the bridge tend to be cheaper for a similar sort of property, resulting in commuting traffic into Hull (I did look at moving to a village on the south side there once) .

Anyway, I'd put money on some of those people living in Barton and commuting to work in the car dealers and supermarkets etc. just to the north of the bridge. If I worked there and had the choice to pay the toll or cycle across on a car-free footpath on a nice dry day, I certainly would choose the bike.
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Re: Humber Bridge foot/cycle way closed indefinitely.

Post by Barkstar »

Chris5156 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:43
Truvelo wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:24
Chris5156 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:13
Quite. It's a pretty clear indication that the Humber Bridge Board consider the purpose of their bridge to be the flow of motor traffic, and that the paths used for walking and cycling are - to them - a recreational facility, not a serious mode of transport.
That's probably true though isn't it? I can't imagine anyone walking or cycling across it to go shopping as there are supermarkets both sides of the bridge and anyone who lives and works on opposite sides will almost certainly drive or use a bus.
It's certainly true that more people will be commuting or making "serious" journeys over the bridge by motor vehicle, and more of the people using the footpaths will be exercising or enjoying a day out. But you are either in the business of providing for those journeys or you aren't, and the Humber Bridge is. As the operator, the HBB has a duty to provide a way over the river for the modes of transport it supports. It shouldn't be able to just remove access on a whim and without consultation or legislation.
When the Silver Jubilee bridge in Runcorn was closed for its revamp for a number of years a free bus was provided for pedestrians and cyclists - the new bridge is some distance from the old one and pedestrians and cyclist are prohibited.
And if facilities are provided for pedestrians and cyclist it shouldn't be for the HBB to decide if your journey is necessary - it is none of their business.
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Re: Humber Bridge foot/cycle way closed indefinitely.

Post by the cheesecake man »

Mark Hewitt wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:21 Someone committed suicide at my local railway station just last week. Is the station closed? Of course not.

But because it's 'only' bikes it doesn't matter.
Quite. Has The London Underground been closed down? According to Wikipedia "Between 1940 and 1990 there were 3240 incidents of "persons under a train". " That's 65 per year, far more than The Humber Bridge.
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Re: Humber Bridge foot/cycle way closed indefinitely.

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Update from Road CC https://road.cc/content/news/cycling-uk ... ure-282427
Cycling UK has written to the owners of the Humber Bridge following the closure of the structure’s footway to cyclists and pedestrians last weekend, to seek clarification on several issues, including when it might be reopened to people on foot and bikes, and what temporary measures are being drawn up to enable them to cross the estuary in the meantime.

As we reported earlier this week, the footways were closed as an emergency response to a number of recent suicides at the bridge, and while it remains open to vehicle traffic, a 60-mile detour to access alternative crossings via bridges over the Trent and Ouse means people who commute across it by bike or on foot cannot travel to work unless they use other means of crossing, such as their car if they have one, getting a lift from someone else, or taking the bus. Writing to the chairman of the Humber Bridge Board(link is external), Cycling UK’s head of campaigns, Duncan Dollimore said that the charity “fully understands the concerns raised by members of the public and groups such as the Humber Bridge Suicide Safety Measures campaign group, who have been calling for more safety measures on the bridge for several years.”

Citing a report in the Hull Daily Mail(link is external), he said: “As that group’s spokesperson has made clear, however, closing the bridge to the public is not the solution.

“Indeed, the Covid crisis has highlighted the increased mental health and wellbeing risks associated with social isolation. This is why, through Cycling UK’s community cycling clubs, projects and other activities, we try to encourage people to move and travel more actively, make active travel a realistic option for more people, and through that help them break the cycle of social isolation.

“Closing a bridge to pedestrians and cyclists in response to the tragic number of suicides on the bridge is, respectfully, a reaction to symptoms whilst ignoring the cause.”

He continued: “Statutory bodies do of course sometimes need to make emergency decisions, but nothing that I have read about this decision suggests that it is time-limited, or that any temporary mitigation measures are being put in place to provide alternative means for cyclists and pedestrians to cross the bridge.

“I would, for example, have expected news about a Covid-compliant temporary bus / shuttle service or similar to take pedestrians and cyclists across whilst the footway remains closed.

“Instead, it appears that no consideration whatsoever has been given to how those wishing to use or who are reliant upon active travel can continue to cross the Humber in the vicinity of the Humber Bridge. If I am mistaken, perhaps you could clarify what alternative measures are being considered, and if so when any decision might be made and implemented?”

Summarising the detailed questions he put to the Humber Bridge Board in the letter, Dollimore wrote:

1. Has any traffic regulation order (TRO) been consulted upon, advertised or made to authorise the restriction on the footway, and if so, can you provide a copy of any relevant notification and order?

2. If the TRO process has not been used, under what authority or power has this decision has been made?

3. Whether the decision to impose these restrictions was made by the Board or through delegated powers and, if the latter, whether and when the Board intends to revisit this decision?

4. Can you provide the pedestrian and cyclist traffic count data both pre and post covid to confirm the daily number of cyclists and pedestrian trips across the bridge?

5. What, if any, temporary mitigation measures are being put in place to provide alternative means for cyclists and pedestrians to cross the bridge, or to cross the Humber Estuary in the vicinity of the bridge, whilst the footway remains closed, and when might they be implemented?

The Humber Bridge Board said earlier this week that it is “looking at reopening access to commuters as soon as possible, to minimise disruption to those who cycle or walk to work over the Humber Bridge, and we are considering a range of measures to ensure the situation can be effectively managed once the footways fully reopen.”

Cycling UK has said that it will communicate the Board’s response to its letter once it has been received.
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Re: Humber Bridge foot/cycle way closed indefinitely.

Post by delinquentwoody »

I wonder if the questions raised by Cycling UK in the previous post could be answered through a Freedom of Information request.. the statistics on number of walkers and cyclists would be interesting.. and I very much doubt a TRO has been made.
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Re: Humber Bridge foot/cycle way closed indefinitely.

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Jim606 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 18:51 Update from Road CC https://road.cc/content/news/cycling-uk ... ure-282427
Cycling UK has written to the owners of the Humber Bridge following the closure of the structure’s footway to cyclists and pedestrians last weekend, to seek clarification on several issues, including when it might be reopened to people on foot and bikes, and what temporary measures are being drawn up to enable them to cross the estuary in the meantime.

As we reported earlier this week, the footways were closed as an emergency response to a number of recent suicides at the bridge, and while it remains open to vehicle traffic, a 60-mile detour to access alternative crossings via bridges over the Trent and Ouse means people who commute across it by bike or on foot cannot travel to work unless they use other means of crossing, such as their car if they have one, getting a lift from someone else, or taking the bus. Writing to the chairman of the Humber Bridge Board(link is external), Cycling UK’s head of campaigns, Duncan Dollimore said that the charity “fully understands the concerns raised by members of the public and groups such as the Humber Bridge Suicide Safety Measures campaign group, who have been calling for more safety measures on the bridge for several years.”

Citing a report in the Hull Daily Mail(link is external), he said: “As that group’s spokesperson has made clear, however, closing the bridge to the public is not the solution.

“Indeed, the Covid crisis has highlighted the increased mental health and wellbeing risks associated with social isolation. This is why, through Cycling UK’s community cycling clubs, projects and other activities, we try to encourage people to move and travel more actively, make active travel a realistic option for more people, and through that help them break the cycle of social isolation.

“Closing a bridge to pedestrians and cyclists in response to the tragic number of suicides on the bridge is, respectfully, a reaction to symptoms whilst ignoring the cause.”

He continued: “Statutory bodies do of course sometimes need to make emergency decisions, but nothing that I have read about this decision suggests that it is time-limited, or that any temporary mitigation measures are being put in place to provide alternative means for cyclists and pedestrians to cross the bridge.

“I would, for example, have expected news about a Covid-compliant temporary bus / shuttle service or similar to take pedestrians and cyclists across whilst the footway remains closed.

“Instead, it appears that no consideration whatsoever has been given to how those wishing to use or who are reliant upon active travel can continue to cross the Humber in the vicinity of the Humber Bridge. If I am mistaken, perhaps you could clarify what alternative measures are being considered, and if so when any decision might be made and implemented?”

Summarising the detailed questions he put to the Humber Bridge Board in the letter, Dollimore wrote:

1. Has any traffic regulation order (TRO) been consulted upon, advertised or made to authorise the restriction on the footway, and if so, can you provide a copy of any relevant notification and order?

2. If the TRO process has not been used, under what authority or power has this decision has been made?

3. Whether the decision to impose these restrictions was made by the Board or through delegated powers and, if the latter, whether and when the Board intends to revisit this decision?

4. Can you provide the pedestrian and cyclist traffic count data both pre and post covid to confirm the daily number of cyclists and pedestrian trips across the bridge?

5. What, if any, temporary mitigation measures are being put in place to provide alternative means for cyclists and pedestrians to cross the bridge, or to cross the Humber Estuary in the vicinity of the bridge, whilst the footway remains closed, and when might they be implemented?

The Humber Bridge Board said earlier this week that it is “looking at reopening access to commuters as soon as possible, to minimise disruption to those who cycle or walk to work over the Humber Bridge, and we are considering a range of measures to ensure the situation can be effectively managed once the footways fully reopen.”

Cycling UK has said that it will communicate the Board’s response to its letter once it has been received.
Not particularly precious about these things but is there a reason why you keep reposting the same content that I’ve already linked to and summarised in a shorter quote?
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Re: Humber Bridge foot/cycle way closed indefinitely.

Post by rhyds »

Out of interest, does anyone have any actual figures for the NMU usage of crossings like the Humber and Severn Bridges and Dartford? IIRC Dartford had a shuttle bus service for pedestrians and cyclists.
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Re: Humber Bridge foot/cycle way closed indefinitely.

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rhyds wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:09 Out of interest, does anyone have any actual figures for the NMU usage of crossings like the Humber and Severn Bridges and Dartford? IIRC Dartford had a shuttle bus service for pedestrians and cyclists.
It appears to be around 150 cyclists a day. I can't find figures for the number of pedestrians. So, not thousands and thousands, but still a significant number of people every day.
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Re: Humber Bridge foot/cycle way closed indefinitely.

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Chris5156 wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:37
rhyds wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:09 Out of interest, does anyone have any actual figures for the NMU usage of crossings like the Humber and Severn Bridges and Dartford? IIRC Dartford had a shuttle bus service for pedestrians and cyclists.
It appears to be around 150 cyclists a day. I can't find figures for the number of pedestrians. So, not thousands and thousands, but still a significant number of people every day.
That's about 100 times what I thought it would be!
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Re: Humber Bridge foot/cycle way closed indefinitely.

Post by jervi »

I'm sure the weather has a very large impact on those cycling or walking across it. On a nice Summer's Sunday it may even be close to 1,000 pedestrians & cycles combined. And on a cold stormy Winter's day I doubt there would be 1.
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Re: Humber Bridge foot/cycle way closed indefinitely.

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jervi wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:24 I'm sure the weather has a very large impact on those cycling or walking across it. On a nice Summer's Sunday it may even be close to 1,000 pedestrians & cycles combined. And on a cold stormy Winter's day I doubt there would be 1.
I don't know: the guy I mentioned who used to live in Chepstow and work in Avonmouth commuted by bike every day. Presumably he had an alternative if the Severn Bridge was actually shut due to high winds, but then he'd have been inconvenienced in a car as well (presuming the M4 stayed open).
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