Pedestrians on Motorways

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jgharston
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Re: Pedestrians on Motorways

Post by jgharston »

Debaser wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 07:03 As I pointed out upthread. The pig ignorance of the public is exceeded only by that of some engineers.
I see your A421 and raise you the A64.

Wait a bit, I go forward a few yards and find this. I fold.
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Re: Pedestrians on Motorways

Post by solocle »

jgharston wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 21:18
Debaser wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 07:03 As I pointed out upthread. The pig ignorance of the public is exceeded only by that of some engineers.
I see your A421 and raise you the A64.

Wait a bit, I go forward a few yards and find this. I fold.
Don't forget Solstice Park on - the A303. Ooh look, they even give you a bit of a turning circle!
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Re: Pedestrians on Motorways

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solocle wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 21:29
Don't forget Solstice Park on - the A303. Ooh look, they even give you a bit of a turning circle!
A bit of an acceleration lane to get back onto the main road would have been nice - you aren't going to be taking that corner at much over 10mph.
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Re: Pedestrians on Motorways

Post by FleetlinePhil »

crb11 wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 18:17
FleetlinePhil wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 13:56
I can't argue with your analysis of the different groups and their needs, but surely all these are "leisure" purposes? Unless I suppose the 100+ mile group are actually paid professionals in training.

I may be wrong, but I believe Conecicker was defining "serious" use as something essential - shopping, hospital visits, seeing Mum in the old folks' home, etc, using cycling as a means of transport rather than an end in itself? That would certainly be my definition.
Yes - I originally meant to say something about that but didn't get round to it. Basically, this introduces further groups with differing needs, but they are broadly the same categories - those who need the higher quality provision are going to be doing the shorter trips in towns, and anyone willing to cycle ten miles on a regular basis is going to be confident enough to cope with my "B roads". (Having a network of higher-quality routes for those who want to commute 10-15 miles from villages into the nearest town would be nice to have, but it's down the priority list - having a safe network inside towns so that kids can cycle to school and grow up cycling around is a prerequisite for this kind of "adult" route to get suitable use anyway.)
Yes, and a network of decent 10-15 mile links aimed primarily at potential commuters could also create something really useful for those cyclists that want to cover the longer distances on occasion whilst avoiding using busy roads. There would be a great deal to commend that, in fact, although personally I would like to see sufficient money spent on restoring the rural bus network in parallel.
solocle wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 15:12 And what about driving to the gym? Is not exercise "essential", as the government deem?
I think you've mixed me up with somebody else :laugh: .
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Re: Pedestrians on Motorways

Post by solocle »

FleetlinePhil wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:40
crb11 wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 18:17
FleetlinePhil wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 13:56
I can't argue with your analysis of the different groups and their needs, but surely all these are "leisure" purposes? Unless I suppose the 100+ mile group are actually paid professionals in training.

I may be wrong, but I believe Conecicker was defining "serious" use as something essential - shopping, hospital visits, seeing Mum in the old folks' home, etc, using cycling as a means of transport rather than an end in itself? That would certainly be my definition.
Yes - I originally meant to say something about that but didn't get round to it. Basically, this introduces further groups with differing needs, but they are broadly the same categories - those who need the higher quality provision are going to be doing the shorter trips in towns, and anyone willing to cycle ten miles on a regular basis is going to be confident enough to cope with my "B roads". (Having a network of higher-quality routes for those who want to commute 10-15 miles from villages into the nearest town would be nice to have, but it's down the priority list - having a safe network inside towns so that kids can cycle to school and grow up cycling around is a prerequisite for this kind of "adult" route to get suitable use anyway.)
Yes, and a network of decent 10-15 mile links aimed primarily at potential commuters could also create something really useful for those cyclists that want to cover the longer distances on occasion whilst avoiding using busy roads. There would be a great deal to commend that, in fact, although personally I would like to see sufficient money spent on restoring the rural bus network in parallel.
solocle wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 15:12 And what about driving to the gym? Is not exercise "essential", as the government deem?
I think you've mixed me up with somebody else :laugh: .
One trunk road which is really quite heavily used by cyclists is the A30 in Cornwall and Devon. It's quite simply the fastest route out of Cornwall, which appeals to some LEJOGers. The A30 has had a fair bit of offline dualling, but there are significant gaps. The msot notable being on the 20 miles between Bodmin and Launceston across Bodmin Moor, where there really is no real alternative.

There are a few criteria for a route being "fast":
*direct
*gently graded
*smooth surface
*lack of junctions, particularly traffic lights
*a tug from passing lorries helps, too

So a cycle route is never going to be as fast as a dual carriageway, even if it's just due to the absence of lorries. Where duallies add distance with a wiggle, it's generally due to bypassing something which will slow a cyclist down more...

But almost everyone will compromise on speed for safety - the tradeoff varies from person to person.

E.g if I were doing LEJOG, I'd probably make for my parents' house for the first night. Which is a stone's throw from the A30, coincidentally (but in Dorset). So I'd be aiming to make Launceston by roughly 9am on a Sunday, meaning leaving Land's End at perhaps 3am. At which point are you going to zigzag around trying to follow the old road where it exists (another gap being approaching Carland Cross), or just cruise straight up the DC, where you won't get lost?

Apart from a 0.7 mile dash at Sourton Down, you can then follow the old road all the way to Exeter and Honiton. While bypassing towns is an advantage for outright speed, being realistic, I'd quite like the opportunity to stop for snacks and perhaps a drink every 30 miles, so passing through the occasional town isn't a problem for me!

I suspect that, outside of Scotland and Wales, even trunk A roads pass within the vicinity of a town at most every 20 miles, seeing as how the A30 in sparsely populated Devon and Cornwall does.
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Re: Pedestrians on Motorways

Post by KeithW »

solocle wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 13:41 Apart from a 0.7 mile dash at Sourton Down, you can then follow the old road all the way to Exeter and Honiton. While bypassing towns is an advantage for outright speed, being realistic, I'd quite like the opportunity to stop for snacks and perhaps a drink every 30 miles, so passing through the occasional town isn't a problem for me!

I suspect that, outside of Scotland and Wales, even trunk A roads pass within the vicinity of a town at most every 20 miles, seeing as how the A30 in sparsely populated Devon and Cornwall does.
The A1 in Northumberland, especially North of Alnwick is rather sparsely furnished with towns :)
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Re: Pedestrians on Motorways

Post by solocle »

KeithW wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 14:03
solocle wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 13:41 Apart from a 0.7 mile dash at Sourton Down, you can then follow the old road all the way to Exeter and Honiton. While bypassing towns is an advantage for outright speed, being realistic, I'd quite like the opportunity to stop for snacks and perhaps a drink every 30 miles, so passing through the occasional town isn't a problem for me!

I suspect that, outside of Scotland and Wales, even trunk A roads pass within the vicinity of a town at most every 20 miles, seeing as how the A30 in sparsely populated Devon and Cornwall does.
The A1 in Northumberland, especially North of Alnwick is rather sparsely furnished with towns :)
I think while a "village", we can count Belford, as it has a chippy, two pubs, a coop, and a number of hotels/B&Bs! That safely gets you to Berwick within the 20 mile threshold, and then it's Nicola Sturgeon's territory.
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Re: Pedestrians on Motorways

Post by jervi »

Looking at dodgy cycle provision at slip roads, what about this one...
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.05740 ... 92!5m1!1e1 , you may ask where? look at at GSV from 2009
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.05710 ... 56!5m1!1e1 and that's where it comes out
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Re: Pedestrians on Motorways

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jervi wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 18:38 Looking at dodgy cycle provision at slip roads, what about this one...
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.05740 ... 92!5m1!1e1 , you may ask where? look at at GSV from 2009
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.05710 ... 56!5m1!1e1 and that's where it comes out
Clearly there's no demand for it, otherwise the cyclists using it would have kept the growth back and/or complained to the highway authority to get it cleared out.
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Re: Pedestrians on Motorways

Post by Gav »

Aussies allow cycling so maybe allowing peds on the motorway would be ok ?
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Re: Pedestrians on Motorways

Post by solocle »

Conekicker wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 19:07
jervi wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 18:38 Looking at dodgy cycle provision at slip roads, what about this one...
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.05740 ... 92!5m1!1e1 , you may ask where? look at at GSV from 2009
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.05710 ... 56!5m1!1e1 and that's where it comes out
Clearly there's no demand for it, otherwise the cyclists using it would have kept the growth back and/or complained to the highway authority to get it cleared out.
That's not the A23's only entry...
Let's have you cross the M23 a few yards before it is the M23
Of course, fun getting into the right hand lane...

If you want more A road fun, take a look at the Old Bexley Lane junction with the A2. No prohibition on cycling, say, Eastbound, even got a hard shoulder! Lovely.
The next junction is the Darenth Interchange
Notice the conspicuous absence of "no cycling signs" on the A282 exit. While it may still be illegal to cycle on the Dartford Crossing, it would be completely unenforceable. Well, until you get to the mouth of the tunnel itself, where there are prohibition signs... that you'd likely never see due to traffic passing on your right! And even if you did, what happens then? Do you stop in the middle of the carriageway until you're removed? It does seem to be beyond the point of no return, after all.

Basically the signage is a clusterf***
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Re: Pedestrians on Motorways

Post by DanT97 »

At this point, I have to say, thank god I’m Scottish. Our country is gloriously free from HEs madness and it is a land of vast openness where wilderness is still dominant. Clearly our roads are better in any case.
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Re: Pedestrians on Motorways

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DanT97 wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 21:12 At this point, I have to say, thank god I’m Scottish. Our country is gloriously free from HEs madness and it is a land of vast openness where wilderness is still dominant. Clearly our roads are better in any case.
However, they still don't allow pedestrians or cyclists on the motorways.
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Re: Pedestrians on Motorways

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DanT97 wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 21:12 At this point, I have to say, thank god I’m Scottish. Our country is gloriously free from HEs madness and it is a land of vast openness where wilderness is still dominant. Clearly our roads are better in any case.
The good burghers of Glasgow want a word with you... :twisted:
Last edited by Conekicker on Fri Apr 30, 2021 23:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pedestrians on Motorways

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DanT97 wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 21:12At this point, I have to say, thank god I’m Scottish. Our country is gloriously free from HEs madness and it is a land of vast openness where wilderness is still dominant. Clearly our roads are better in any case.
What madness are you talking about? And what does the amount of wilderness in Scotland have to do with anything? :roll:
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Re: Pedestrians on Motorways

Post by Conekicker »

Chris5156 wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 22:23
DanT97 wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 21:12At this point, I have to say, thank god I’m Scottish. Our country is gloriously free from HEs madness and it is a land of vast openness where wilderness is still dominant. Clearly our roads are better in any case.
What madness are you talking about? And what does the amount of wilderness in Scotland have to do with anything? :roll:
Following the wilderness argument to it's logical(?) conclusion, if there's so much wilderness to walk in, there's no need for pedestrians to walk along the motorway surely? :roll:
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Re: Pedestrians on Motorways

Post by Chris Bertram »

Conekicker wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 23:24
Chris5156 wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 22:23
DanT97 wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 21:12At this point, I have to say, thank god I’m Scottish. Our country is gloriously free from HEs madness and it is a land of vast openness where wilderness is still dominant. Clearly our roads are better in any case.
What madness are you talking about? And what does the amount of wilderness in Scotland have to do with anything? :roll:
Following the wilderness argument to it's logical(?) conclusion, if there's so much wilderness to walk in, there's no need for pedestrians to walk along the motorway surely? :roll:
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Re: Pedestrians on Motorways

Post by Bryn666 »

Gav wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 20:01 Aussies allow cycling so maybe allowing peds on the motorway would be ok ?
Australia duals rural roads online because there's no need for a service road when the next town is 90km away and there are no houses anywhere in sight. It's not remotely comparable.

In densely packed urban areas cycling and walking is banned from freeways like anywhere else.
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Re: Pedestrians on Motorways

Post by Herned »

Bryn666 wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 12:06
Australia duals rural roads online because there's no need for a service road when the next town is 90km away and there are no houses anywhere in sight. It's not remotely comparable.

In densely packed urban areas cycling and walking is banned from freeways like anywhere else.
It may be in certain situations, but cyclists are allowed on freeways in suburban Sydney. Not something I fancy doing personally
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Re: Pedestrians on Motorways

Post by DanT97 »

Chris5156 wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 22:23
DanT97 wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 21:12At this point, I have to say, thank god I’m Scottish. Our country is gloriously free from HEs madness and it is a land of vast openness where wilderness is still dominant. Clearly our roads are better in any case.
What madness are you talking about? And what does the amount of wilderness in Scotland have to do with anything? :roll:
I am, of course, talking about “smart” motorways. Also I don’t approve of other HE mainstays, such as concrete central reservations (grass with a metal barrier is my preference), getting rid of hard shoulders, and an over complicated structure in general.
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