Pedestrians on Motorways
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- RichardA35
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Re: Pedestrians on Motorways
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Re: Pedestrians on Motorways
Concreate vehicle restraint systems are much better than metal or wire ones in almost everyway. And you can't really put a concreate barrier onto or into dirt.DanT97 wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 20:45I am, of course, talking about “smart” motorways. Also I don’t approve of other HE mainstays, such as concrete central reservations (grass with a metal barrier is my preference), getting rid of hard shoulders, and an over complicated structure in general.
Concreate barriers deflect vehicles better, don't have to be replaced whenever a vehicle hits one, don't rust and generally require less maintenance while doing a better job at preventing cross carriageway collisions. Of course they cost more to initially install, but they save money and lives in the long run.
Dual carriageways with a concrete barrier, no dirt and grass looks modern and sleek to me. Meanwhile grass and a steel barrier looks like its from the 70s, cheap and dirty. Plus if a vehicle would end up tires in the central reserve (for whatever reason) it would throw up a load of dirt onto the carriageway and more likely to lose control of the vehicle, while paved to the barrier would just result in the vehicle being deflected back into the carriageway after getting a scrape.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.04886 ... 312!8i6656 < https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.04886 ... 384!8i8192
The only downside is visibility.
I'll agree with you on how stupidly over engineered our overhead signs and gantries are thou
Re: Pedestrians on Motorways
Concrete barriers are used in Scotland. Here on M80 for example
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.94916 ... 384!8i8192
M90
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@56.03099 ... 384!8i8192
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.94916 ... 384!8i8192
M90
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@56.03099 ... 384!8i8192
Re: Pedestrians on Motorways
Let us not forget that I believe in nature and greenery, and a grass central reservation has that in spades. Metal barriers are also more elastic and can therefore absorb the impact a little bit better. I always feel that concrete is rubbish and far too brutalist and industrial for my taste. That’s why grass and metal is better.jervi wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 21:12Concreate vehicle restraint systems are much better than metal or wire ones in almost everyway. And you can't really put a concreate barrier onto or into dirt.
Concreate barriers deflect vehicles better, don't have to be replaced whenever a vehicle hits one, don't rust and generally require less maintenance while doing a better job at preventing cross carriageway collisions. Of course they cost more to initially install, but they save money and lives in the long run.
Dual carriageways with a concrete barrier, no dirt and grass looks modern and sleek to me. Meanwhile grass and a steel barrier looks like its from the 70s, cheap and dirty. Plus if a vehicle would end up tires in the central reserve (for whatever reason) it would throw up a load of dirt onto the carriageway and more likely to lose control of the vehicle, while paved to the barrier would just result in the vehicle being deflected back into the carriageway after getting a scrape.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.04886 ... 312!8i6656 < https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.04886 ... 384!8i8192
The only downside is visibility.
I'll agree with you on how stupidly over engineered our overhead signs and gantries are thou
It is also a known fact that the weirdos of HE are quite keen on rubbish gantries that are not good. Everyone knows that Glasgow has the best gantries around and HE just don’t compare.
T97 - Glencoe to Connell
The artist formerly known as Penguin2014
The artist formerly known as Penguin2014
Re: Pedestrians on Motorways
Really? Have MS4s been rolled across the entire Scottish network recently then? Having MS1s showing '40' for for miles on the A74(M)/M74 really isn't useful if you've no idea what hazard you're looking out for, for example. Having information such as "stranded vehicle", "animals on road", "report of pedestrians", and "road closed at J16" are all far more useful....
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- Ruperts Trooper
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Re: Pedestrians on Motorways
I prefer continuous concrete central barrier for the simple reason it reduces the risk of an HGV cross-over - in my view that outweighs all the other considerations.DanT97 wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 23:53Let us not forget that I believe in nature and greenery, and a grass central reservation has that in spades. Metal barriers are also more elastic and can therefore absorb the impact a little bit better. I always feel that concrete is rubbish and far too brutalist and industrial for my taste. That’s why grass and metal is better.jervi wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 21:12Concreate vehicle restraint systems are much better than metal or wire ones in almost everyway. And you can't really put a concreate barrier onto or into dirt.
Concreate barriers deflect vehicles better, don't have to be replaced whenever a vehicle hits one, don't rust and generally require less maintenance while doing a better job at preventing cross carriageway collisions. Of course they cost more to initially install, but they save money and lives in the long run.
Dual carriageways with a concrete barrier, no dirt and grass looks modern and sleek to me. Meanwhile grass and a steel barrier looks like its from the 70s, cheap and dirty. Plus if a vehicle would end up tires in the central reserve (for whatever reason) it would throw up a load of dirt onto the carriageway and more likely to lose control of the vehicle, while paved to the barrier would just result in the vehicle being deflected back into the carriageway after getting a scrape.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.04886 ... 312!8i6656 < https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.04886 ... 384!8i8192
The only downside is visibility.
I'll agree with you on how stupidly over engineered our overhead signs and gantries are thou
It is also a known fact that the weirdos of HE are quite keen on rubbish gantries that are not good. Everyone knows that Glasgow has the best gantries around and HE just don’t compare.
Oh, and I don't like Glasgow motorways - too much weaving needed for non-locals - basically the junctions are too close together, very noticeable when driving something with low acceleration.
Lifelong motorhead
Re: Pedestrians on Motorways
This entire thread has got to be a wind up.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
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Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: Pedestrians on Motorways
Nearly all the rural M74 / A74(M) has a parallel route, following almost the same line, specifically designed for walkers, cycling etc, so the question is more why provide 2 routes when segregation by speed is possible.DanT97 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 22:06 I have read your interesting points. I wish to note that walking on a verge would be laughably easy for me, since I go hillwalking sometimes. I also walk 10 miles for fun so, I’m pretty damn fit. Also I fail to see the logic in applying these rules to extremely rural motorways in Scotland, where there can be found miles of room. Obviously you guys are thinking of your English “smart” motorways with all their bells and whistles. I’m talking about the rural M74 with miles of hills and valleys.
Re: Pedestrians on Motorways
Well the A74(M)/M74 certainly has a parallel route - B7076 but for the most part its the original A74 and was definitely not designed for walkers and cyclists.
Re: Pedestrians on Motorways
Of course. Such is the inability of the average British engineer to design properly for walking and cycling, that even here, defeat is snatched from the jaws of victory. Try getting a laden touring bike (presumably the user group the designers had in mind) through that gap.
- FosseWay
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Re: Pedestrians on Motorways
Debaser wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 19:03 Of course. Such is the inability of the average British engineer to design properly for walking and cycling, that even here, defeat is snatched from the jaws of victory. Try getting a laden touring bike (presumably the user group the designers had in mind) through that gap.
For a start, the cycle path should have priority over turning traffic, like in civilised countries.
But even leaving aside that general point - and I realise you can't necessarily apply a different priority here when everywhere else in the UK has something else - those barriers are unnecessary. What in the name of all that is holy is wrong with a give way sign and appropriate road markings? What is that side road anyway? It doesn't look like a through road to anywhere. What is the usage level of the junction for motor vehicles?
They're unnecessary. But they are also dangerous, as evidenced by the aftermarket application of black and yellow tape. When you're driving along in a car on a normal highway, you do not expect your way to be physically blocked by solid metal bars that will put you in hospital if you hit them. Indeed, we go out of our way to ensure that objects erected *off* the roadway are as forgiving as possible if hit by errant vehicles. But we stick iron piping just at handlebar height across cycle paths. Huh?
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Re: Pedestrians on Motorways
In some parts of Scotland, a road is called "the motorway" if it has a dashed line down the middleConekicker wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 23:24Following the wilderness argument to it's logical(?) conclusion, if there's so much wilderness to walk in, there's no need for pedestrians to walk along the motorway surely?
Re: Pedestrians on Motorways
It's actually worse than that. Streetview hasn't been updated for a while, but since it last was an access to a windfarm has been created south of that access, which places two small (600mm-ish) black bollards directly in the middle of the two marked lanes on the cycle track. To ensure absolute safety, the one on the northbound lane (i.e. heading towards the access) has a cute little give-way sign mounted on it. Easily the smallest give-way sign I've ever seen. The Stage 3 road safety audit did point out that this layout was absurd and a collision risk. However, this was the highway authority's standard layout - god help them - so it stayed in.FosseWay wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 19:17Debaser wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 19:03 Of course. Such is the inability of the average British engineer to design properly for walking and cycling, that even here, defeat is snatched from the jaws of victory. Try getting a laden touring bike (presumably the user group the designers had in mind) through that gap.
For a start, the cycle path should have priority over turning traffic, like in civilised countries.
But even leaving aside that general point - and I realise you can't necessarily apply a different priority here when everywhere else in the UK has something else - those barriers are unnecessary. What in the name of all that is holy is wrong with a give way sign and appropriate road markings? What is that side road anyway? It doesn't look like a through road to anywhere. What is the usage level of the junction for motor vehicles?
They're unnecessary. But they are also dangerous, as evidenced by the aftermarket application of black and yellow tape. When you're driving along in a car on a normal highway, you do not expect your way to be physically blocked by solid metal bars that will put you in hospital if you hit them. Indeed, we go out of our way to ensure that objects erected *off* the roadway are as forgiving as possible if hit by errant vehicles. But we stick iron piping just at handlebar height across cycle paths. Huh?
Re: Pedestrians on Motorways
If anything is a wind up, it is the “smart” motorways nonsense. Besides, where I come from we appreciate nature and like to have plenty of it.
T97 - Glencoe to Connell
The artist formerly known as Penguin2014
The artist formerly known as Penguin2014
Re: Pedestrians on Motorways
You are talking about a road that was designed by Thomas Telford in the 19th-century as coaching route between Glasgow and Carlisle. It was designed it 1814-15 and opened in 1825, it may have been remiss of him not to cater for bicycles but he assuredly knew about pedestriansDebaser wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 19:03
Of course. Such is the inability of the average British engineer to design properly for walking and cycling, that even here, defeat is snatched from the jaws of victory. Try getting a laden touring bike (presumably the user group the designers had in mind) through that gap.
- Conekicker
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Re: Pedestrians on Motorways
So why walk along a motorway then?
Patience is not a virtue - it's a concept invented by the dozy beggars who are unable to think quickly enough.
Re: Pedestrians on Motorways
Its a good job you don't have any Smart Motorways then isn't it. I am sure if you asked that nice Ms Sturgeon she would plough up the M77 for you.
Re: Pedestrians on Motorways
Where I come from we know that arrogance won’t endear you to anyone.
Chris
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- Conekicker
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Re: Pedestrians on Motorways
For some reason I can't quite put my finger on ( ) the word "troll" comes to mind.
Patience is not a virtue - it's a concept invented by the dozy beggars who are unable to think quickly enough.
Re: Pedestrians on Motorways
Wow...
Reading this thread is making my brain hurt.
I would say it was the massive overrun last night making my mind play tricks, but I saw some of this thread before then.
Reading this thread is making my brain hurt.
I would say it was the massive overrun last night making my mind play tricks, but I saw some of this thread before then.