Motorway Bus Lanes

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A303Chris
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Re: Motorway Bus Lanes

Post by A303Chris »

WHBM wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 20:00
For me the thing that symbolised it most was being stopped in a queue one evening on the remaining two lanes and having Tony Blair, as PM, blast past at full speed in it in his escorted limo. Talk about "Zil lanes".
That was a very common occurrence for Government and overseas officials , to use the bus lanes and stop all traffic just before the elevated section to obtain a clear run.

During Theresa Mays leadership, we witness many times the A4 closed and her entourage going the wrong way around roundabouts to get to her house in Sonning. Give her due she still went to church, shopped, ate locally. It is bizarre when you were in an aisle at Waitrose in Twyford and suddenly two bodyguards appeared at either end of the aisle, you knew coming around the corner was the PM. I actually had a chat with her waiting at the fresh meat counter.

Even funnier was when she used The Bull or French Horn in Sonning. You would be at the bar drinking and there would be a chap at the bar, in a suit drinking a soft drink, with a gun down his trousers, trying to act normal when you all knew why he was there.
The M25 - The road to nowhere
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RichardA35
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Re: Motorway Bus Lanes

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Steven wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:58
RichardA35 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:50 My only slight quibble is that according to my last info (2017) the A5103 from the north end of the north slip roads is under the control of HE all the way through to the M56. So who maintans the cycleways and bus lanes is an interesting question.HE maint limits.png
Unfortunately that map is incorrect, and if it's the one I'm thinking of has a number of errors on it, such as claiming the A460 is partially Trunk (which it isn't).
Without wishing to fall out, the documentary evidence points to the A5103 being a trunk road.
The map cannot be the one as it does not claim the A460 is trunk. It is the HE NMM dated 2017 with similar limits to the GIS based map linked by another user with limits of HA/HE responsibility marked.
Steven wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:58The NSG is as good as it gets for accuracy as to maintenance, and it clearly shows that the A5103 is entirely under the control of Manchester CC, and the HE responsibility starts at the motorway start.

Bus lane.JPG
Unfortunately the NSG has obvious errors. On projects I have been involved in it misrepresents the relationship between trunk roads and local roads and I was party to either seeing the orders or proposing the maintenance boundaries. I counted 6 errors on 3 projects. It would appear to be less accurate than claimed and I would prefer to go with the other evidence and the claims of the parties involved.
1. HE claim the A5103 on their mapping - both the 2017 map I linked and the more recent GIS based mapping
2. Orders under RTRA for the A5103 are in the London Gazette and refer to it as a trunk road and are promoted by the SoS.
3. TfGM network map refers to it as a trunk road
4. TfGM shade it as purple as a HE asset hence excluded from the proposed Manchester Clean Air Zone
Mcr_KRN_map.png
MCR_clean_air_zone.png
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Steven
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Re: Motorway Bus Lanes

Post by Steven »

RichardA35 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 14:41 Without wishing to fall out, the documentary evidence points to the A5103 being a trunk road.
There's no danger of that! :D

I'm quite happy to accept alternative evidence, and go with the weight of it, and in this case it's suggesting that the NSG is incorrect in this case at least and that section of A5103 is indeed a Trunk Road.

I will say one thing about one item in the listed evidence though:
2. Orders under RTRA for the A5103 are in the London Gazette and refer to it as a trunk road and are promoted by the SoS.
We need to be careful about this one, as that just means that it was Trunk at the time of raising those orders, not necessarily that it is. You can find orders of a similar nature for, say, the A4123 in the Gazette from prior the detrunking of the final Trunk sections in late 2008.
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RichardA35
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Re: Motorway Bus Lanes

Post by RichardA35 »

Steven wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 15:01
RichardA35 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 14:41 Without wishing to fall out, the documentary evidence points to the A5103 being a trunk road.
There's no danger of that! :D

I'm quite happy to accept alternative evidence, and go with the weight of it, and in this case it's suggesting that the NSG is incorrect in this case at least and that section of A5103 is indeed a Trunk Road.

I will say one thing about one item in the listed evidence though:
2. Orders under RTRA for the A5103 are in the London Gazette and refer to it as a trunk road and are promoted by the SoS.
We need to be careful about this one, as that just means that it was Trunk at the time of raising those orders, not necessarily that it is. You can find orders of a similar nature for, say, the A4123 in the Gazette from prior the detrunking of the final Trunk sections in late 2008.
Agreed - the last one was a few years ago but I did search extensively for "detrunking" before committing to that one - it is a key motorway to motorway link providing resilience to the M62 - M6 - M56 route so sits well with HE, but it is several years since I went that close to Manchester :lol:
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Bryn666
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Re: Motorway Bus Lanes

Post by Bryn666 »

RichardA35 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 15:23
Steven wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 15:01
RichardA35 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 14:41 Without wishing to fall out, the documentary evidence points to the A5103 being a trunk road.
There's no danger of that! :D

I'm quite happy to accept alternative evidence, and go with the weight of it, and in this case it's suggesting that the NSG is incorrect in this case at least and that section of A5103 is indeed a Trunk Road.

I will say one thing about one item in the listed evidence though:
2. Orders under RTRA for the A5103 are in the London Gazette and refer to it as a trunk road and are promoted by the SoS.
We need to be careful about this one, as that just means that it was Trunk at the time of raising those orders, not necessarily that it is. You can find orders of a similar nature for, say, the A4123 in the Gazette from prior the detrunking of the final Trunk sections in late 2008.
Agreed - the last one was a few years ago but I did search extensively for "detrunking" before committing to that one - it is a key motorway to motorway link providing resilience to the M62 - M6 - M56 route so sits well with HE, but it is several years since I went that close to Manchester :lol:
Given they have just done a huge amount of maintenance, including placing non-passive 168mm diameter lighting columns on giant concrete plinths above ground level adjacent to a 50mph carriageway with no safety fencing, I would posit that if detrunking was on the cards I'd refuse to sign off on it on the basis of "this is an embarrassment to your organisation".

I think my views on HE are well documented by now.
Bryn
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