Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?
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Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?
I've regularly come across these yellow billingual English/French/German signs when I've been in the Republic of Ireland, and find that their placement can be a little weird. While it makes sense for them to be located outside port exits, I've never understood why they exist at many of the more major Irish border crossings from Northern Ireland, since Northern Ireland also drives on the left, and I've also encountered them at fairly random points such as past roundabouts in County Donegal or on N-roads 30 miles north of Dublin. Does anyone here know why they're quite common in Ireland compared with their UK counterpart, which is only generally found near ports and airports?
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- SouthWest Philip
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?
They're quite common in the Scottish Highlands too where there is a problem with tourists stopping to admire the view then setting off, on quiet roads, on the wrong side.
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?
Got any examples please?SouthWest Philip wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 11:48 They're quite common in the Scottish Highlands too where there is a problem with tourists stopping to admire the view then setting off, on quiet roads, on the wrong side.
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?
I've found this one at the exit from the Glencoe Visitor Centre:Conekicker wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 12:46Got any examples please?SouthWest Philip wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 11:48 They're quite common in the Scottish Highlands too where there is a problem with tourists stopping to admire the view then setting off, on quiet roads, on the wrong side.
https://www.google.com/maps/@56.6706078 ... 312!8i6656
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?
Could they have made the 'x' height any smaller?! Not very legible from the other side of the road I think, especially when you're concentrating on pulling out of the junction.trickstat wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 13:22I've found this one at the exit from the Glencoe Visitor Centre:Conekicker wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 12:46Got any examples please?SouthWest Philip wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 11:48 They're quite common in the Scottish Highlands too where there is a problem with tourists stopping to admire the view then setting off, on quiet roads, on the wrong side.
https://www.google.com/maps/@56.6706078 ... 312!8i6656
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?
One reason for them at the NI border may be that tourists from right-side countries may have grasped that the UK drives on the left but not that the Republic also does. The thinking may be that such people may equate crossing an international border with a change of sides, especially since e.g. having speeds/distances in km may reinforce the impression that things are "back to normal" from the perspective of the overseas driver.
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?
The signs were always placed near popular tourist attractions in rural areas. Might that place "30 miles north of Dublin" have been near to the Brú na Bóinne complex that includes the Newgrange passage tomb?
Here’s the current guideline for the new, smaller, design of this sign: Traffic Signs Advice Note: Drive on Left Signs
Reading between the lines of that document, there may have previously been a directive that said the signs had to be located at entry points to the Republic, without excluding Northern Ireland from that rule. This did create some strange placements, which the document shows.
On a related note, when Cork Airport was redeveloped in the 2000s, just one of the many awful sign designs installed by the airport company included one erected just before the exit of the airport complex that read exactly as follows:
"Drive on the left
Conduire à droite
Links fahren"
It was patched a month or two later.
Here’s the current guideline for the new, smaller, design of this sign: Traffic Signs Advice Note: Drive on Left Signs
Reading between the lines of that document, there may have previously been a directive that said the signs had to be located at entry points to the Republic, without excluding Northern Ireland from that rule. This did create some strange placements, which the document shows.
On a related note, when Cork Airport was redeveloped in the 2000s, just one of the many awful sign designs installed by the airport company included one erected just before the exit of the airport complex that read exactly as follows:
"Drive on the left
Conduire à droite
Links fahren"
It was patched a month or two later.
Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?
Perhaps the writer didn't like the French?KrisW wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 15:47 On a related note, when Cork Airport was redeveloped in the 2000s, just one of the many awful sign designs installed by the airport company included one erected just before the exit of the airport complex that read exactly as follows:
"Drive on the left
Conduire à droite
Links fahren"
It was patched a month or two later.
Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?
These signs are commonly placed where there is, or has been, an issue with visitors setting off on the wrong side. Contrary to some belief, this does not tend to happen immediately leaving the port, but maybe at the other end of the country.
Generally, but not always, due to having a European car driven from the opposite side. But the Avis manager at Heathrow told me that they get it on their cars too, obviously UK spec. He said the worst are Americans. They had even had wrong side collisions there inside their compound, before the renter had got out onto the roads. This does also explain why the signs are written in English as well, which I have heard questioned.
Generally, but not always, due to having a European car driven from the opposite side. But the Avis manager at Heathrow told me that they get it on their cars too, obviously UK spec. He said the worst are Americans. They had even had wrong side collisions there inside their compound, before the renter had got out onto the roads. This does also explain why the signs are written in English as well, which I have heard questioned.
That might be the case except NI/RoI border is normally completely unmarked as such, and if it was marked likely the sign would be defaced within minutes.FosseWay wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 15:25 One reason for them at the NI border may be that tourists from right-side countries may have grasped that the UK drives on the left but not that the Republic also does. The thinking may be that such people may equate crossing an international border with a change of sides, especially since e.g. having speeds/distances in km may reinforce the impression that things are "back to normal" from the perspective of the overseas driver.
Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?
I feel I may vaugley remember some when I was there in 2014.SouthWest Philip wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 11:48 They're quite common in the Scottish Highlands too where there is a problem with tourists stopping to admire the view then setting off, on quiet roads, on the wrong side.
I think areas like Donegal and Scotland are quite popular with German tourists.
RJDG14
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If I break a policy designed only to protect me and nobody else, have I really broken anything?
Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?
I don't think they do generally exist at border crossings. Those examples that do are an example of Donegal County Council having a budget at some time in the past and putting some signs here and there.RJDG14 wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 11:46 I've regularly come across these yellow billingual English/French/German signs when I've been in the Republic of Ireland, and find that their placement can be a little weird. While it makes sense for them to be located outside port exits, I've never understood why they exist at many of the more major Irish border crossings from Northern Ireland, since Northern Ireland also drives on the left, and I've also encountered them at fairly random points such as past roundabouts in County Donegal or on N-roads 30 miles north of Dublin. Does anyone here know why they're quite common in Ireland compared with their UK counterpart, which is only generally found near ports and airports?
As for the signs being common, in a normal year the west of Ireland has more motoring tourists as a percentage of traffic than most parts of the UK. Driving on the wrong side is much more likely on a quiet road than a busy one. That said, I'm not sure that the signs are actually any use. Sadly, there are accidents every year with this being a contributory cause.
Crossing to the wrong side to take in the view and then driving off on that side is indeed a most dangerous combination.
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?
There are a handful of border crossings which read "Welcome to Northern Ireland". In Nationalist border regions many of these have been defaced with "Northern" sprayed out, but you can still make out what's meant to be there. I can't think of any Republic of Ireland entry signs at the border that mention Ireland/Eire (and the Republic prefix is unofficial) - it will typically just be a km/h speed limit sign along with "Speed limits in km/h" and a change in the road markings, and in some cases a settlement sign or a "drive on left" sign (or both, in the case of Lifford).WHBM wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 16:41 These signs are commonly placed where there is, or has been, an issue with visitors setting off on the wrong side. Contrary to some belief, this does not tend to happen immediately leaving the port, but maybe at the other end of the country.
Generally, but not always, due to having a European car driven from the opposite side. But the Avis manager at Heathrow told me that they get it on their cars too, obviously UK spec. He said the worst are Americans. They had even had wrong side collisions there inside their compound, before the renter had got out onto the roads. This does also explain why the signs are written in English as well, which I have heard questioned.
That might be the case except NI/RoI border is normally completely unmarked as such, and if it was marked likely the sign would be defaced within minutes.FosseWay wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 15:25 One reason for them at the NI border may be that tourists from right-side countries may have grasped that the UK drives on the left but not that the Republic also does. The thinking may be that such people may equate crossing an international border with a change of sides, especially since e.g. having speeds/distances in km may reinforce the impression that things are "back to normal" from the perspective of the overseas driver.
I saw a couple of old pre-metrification mph speed limit signs on minor roads in Co. Mayo back in 2017.
Something else I find weird would be how the majority of visible intersections in Ireland, at least on major roads, have Stop signs instead of Yield ones, yet a majority of junctions in Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK have Give Way signs unless there are visibility issues, sometimes (especially in England) not having any sign at all. I'm guessing that the ROI's policy on signage placement is different to that of the UK, although I've found that in practice most vehicles in Ireland treat a stop sign at a visible junction very similarly to how people in the UK treat a give way sign.
It's also weird how you see warnings in Ireland about Japanese Knotweed whereas in the UK it's unmarked. I believe some other countries also warn about it.
I think I've also seen the Drive on Left signs on sections of the N1 and N2.
RJDG14
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If I break a policy designed only to protect me and nobody else, have I really broken anything?
See my Geograph profile here - http://www.geograph.org.uk/profile/74193
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?
It certainly used to be the case that in the UK a STOP sign had to be authorised by the DfT, and was only allowed for specific hazardous situations only. Presumably Ireland had a different approach, tending to the USA style where a Stop sign is the norm, but is really treated as "Stop if necessary".RJDG14 wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 17:12
Something else I find weird would be how the majority of visible intersections in Ireland, at least on major roads, have Stop signs instead of Yield ones, yet a majority of junctions in Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK have Give Way signs unless there are visibility issues, sometimes (especially in England) not having any sign at all. I'm guessing that the ROI's policy on signage placement is different to that of the UK, although I've found that in practice most vehicles in Ireland treat a stop sign at a visible junction very similarly to how people in the UK treat a give way sign.
I'm aware of one junction in Birkenhead between minor streets which once had a notorious multi-fatality accident. Their Highways team rebuilt it with multiple signage and much channelisation, but it failed the criteria for a Stop instead of a Give Way.
Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?
I believe in the US a driver can be given a ticket by the police for failing to stop completely at such a sign.WHBM wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 17:44It certainly used to be the case that in the UK a STOP sign had to be authorised by the DfT, and was only allowed for specific hazardous situations only. Presumably Ireland had a different approach, tending to the USA style where a Stop sign is the norm, but is really treated as "Stop if necessary".RJDG14 wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 17:12
Something else I find weird would be how the majority of visible intersections in Ireland, at least on major roads, have Stop signs instead of Yield ones, yet a majority of junctions in Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK have Give Way signs unless there are visibility issues, sometimes (especially in England) not having any sign at all. I'm guessing that the ROI's policy on signage placement is different to that of the UK, although I've found that in practice most vehicles in Ireland treat a stop sign at a visible junction very similarly to how people in the UK treat a give way sign.
I'm aware of one junction in Birkenhead between minor streets which once had a notorious multi-fatality accident. Their Highways team rebuilt it with multiple signage and much channelisation, but it failed the criteria for a Stop instead of a Give Way.
I think Stop signs are also the norm in some countries such as France and South Africa (I think most countries other than the US, Canada and South Africa are generally unenforcive of failing to stop completely), although countries such as the Netherlands along with the Scandinavian countries, most of Eastern Europe and Australia/New Zealand favour Yield/Give Way at most junctions. In theory not stopping completely is an offence in Ireland, though many people do so, even when the Gardai are visible:
https://www.theaa.ie/aa/motoring-advice ... oints.aspx
I know that jaywalking is also technically an offence in both Northern Ireland and the Republic, but everybody still does it like in England (where it's completely legal) and neither country has ever widely enforced their law on the matter to my knowledge.
Stop signs are slightly more common in Scotland and Northern Ireland than in England, which may indicate that it's still general guidance to use a Give Way sign at most junctions but a Stop sign may not require permission.
RJDG14
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If I break a policy designed only to protect me and nobody else, have I really broken anything?
See my Geograph profile here - http://www.geograph.org.uk/profile/74193
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If I break a policy designed only to protect me and nobody else, have I really broken anything?
Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?
There's also this unexpected warning sign near Altnaharra. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@58.24059 ... 312!8i6656RJDG14 wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 16:59I feel I may vaugley remember some when I was there in 2014.SouthWest Philip wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 11:48 They're quite common in the Scottish Highlands too where there is a problem with tourists stopping to admire the view then setting off, on quiet roads, on the wrong side.
I think areas like Donegal and Scotland are quite popular with German tourists.
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?
Slightly OT but worth mentioning that my local tip has a sign telling you not to dump Japanese Knotweed in the garden waste container.
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?
Politically unmarked it may be, but completely unmarked it isn't - the speed limit, road markings and other signs change. Apart from on the smallest roads, where the side of the road you're on is academic, there is IME always some form of evidence that you've crossed the border, and even if there happens to be no speed limit etc. at the border, there will be one within a few km as you drive further into the Republic.WHBM wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 16:41That might be the case except NI/RoI border is normally completely unmarked as such, and if it was marked likely the sign would be defaced within minutes.FosseWay wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 15:25 One reason for them at the NI border may be that tourists from right-side countries may have grasped that the UK drives on the left but not that the Republic also does. The thinking may be that such people may equate crossing an international border with a change of sides, especially since e.g. having speeds/distances in km may reinforce the impression that things are "back to normal" from the perspective of the overseas driver.
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?
Yes, the sort of things known to us lot (I always look for the point where the carriageway edge lines change from yellow to white). But the driver who understands these things is unlikely to be unaware that the traffic continues to drive on the left !FosseWay wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 08:14 Politically unmarked it may be, but completely unmarked it isn't - the speed limit, road markings and other signs change. Apart from on the smallest roads, where the side of the road you're on is academic, there is IME always some form of evidence that you've crossed the border, and even if there happens to be no speed limit etc. at the border, there will be one within a few km as you drive further into the Republic.
There are also, bizarrely, often large signs for places selling fireworks !
It used to be that the carriageway surface deteriorated within about a mile each side of the border, as if road rollers were not allowed there, even (in fact particularly) on the A1/N1 main route, pre-motorway. But those times have gone.
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?
Do you have any street view links of these remaining signs or at least remember the area?
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