Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

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RJDG14
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

Post by RJDG14 »

Having a cuppa wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 03:31
RJDG14 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 17:12 I saw a couple of old pre-metrification mph speed limit signs on minor roads in Co. Mayo back in 2017.
Do you have any street view links of these remaining signs or at least remember the area?
I'm afraid I don't remember the exact location. It was in either Crossmolina or another nearby village such as Laharduan (not Knockmore or Ballina, the second of which is a town). I seem to remember my mum having to briefly go into a corner shop (I think a Centra in this case but it could have been another chain common in Ireland such as Spar) to buy something while we were driving through the area, and saw the sign somewhere at (I think) a turnoff) either just before we parked, while waiting or just after.

Crossmolina doesn't really resemble the village I recall seeing it in or near, while Laharduan does, however I was unable to find the sign on the 2019 Street View imagery which was taken 2 years after I visited the area. I was also unable to find the sign on the 2009 imagery, so it must have been somewhere else (I did notice that the R-road road north of Laharduan has been upgraded since 2009).
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

Post by Having a cuppa »

RJDG14 wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 07:55
Having a cuppa wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 03:31
RJDG14 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 17:12 I saw a couple of old pre-metrification mph speed limit signs on minor roads in Co. Mayo back in 2017.
Do you have any street view links of these remaining signs or at least remember the area?
I'm afraid I don't remember the exact location. It was in either Crossmolina or another nearby village such as Laharduan (not Knockmore or Ballina, the second of which is a town). I seem to remember my mum having to briefly go into a corner shop (I think a Centra in this case but it could have been another chain common in Ireland such as Spar) to buy something while we were driving through the area, and saw the sign somewhere at (I think) a turnoff) either just before we parked, while waiting or just after.

Crossmolina doesn't really resemble the village I recall seeing it in or near, while Laharduan does, however I was unable to find the sign on the 2019 Street View imagery which was taken 2 years after I visited the area. I was also unable to find the sign on the 2009 imagery, so it must have been somewhere else (I did notice that the R-road road north of Laharduan has been upgraded since 2009).
Thanks for letting me know. Apart from the old fingerposts and height restriction signs, Ireland has really rid itself of any imperial signage, unlike Canada for instance, where old imperial signage is still dotted around the country.
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

Post by RJDG14 »

Having a cuppa wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 15:22
RJDG14 wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 07:55
Having a cuppa wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 03:31

Do you have any street view links of these remaining signs or at least remember the area?
I'm afraid I don't remember the exact location. It was in either Crossmolina or another nearby village such as Laharduan (not Knockmore or Ballina, the second of which is a town). I seem to remember my mum having to briefly go into a corner shop (I think a Centra in this case but it could have been another chain common in Ireland such as Spar) to buy something while we were driving through the area, and saw the sign somewhere at (I think) a turnoff) either just before we parked, while waiting or just after.

Crossmolina doesn't really resemble the village I recall seeing it in or near, while Laharduan does, however I was unable to find the sign on the 2019 Street View imagery which was taken 2 years after I visited the area. I was also unable to find the sign on the 2009 imagery, so it must have been somewhere else (I did notice that the R-road road north of Laharduan has been upgraded since 2009).
Thanks for letting me know. Apart from the old fingerposts and height restriction signs, Ireland has really rid itself of any imperial signage, unlike Canada for instance, where old imperial signage is still dotted around the country.
I did definitely see such a sign, it's just that I don't know quite where I saw it, though it was definitely in or near a village in Co. Mayo. It's possible that I came across it in a different village on the way back from a daytrip with my parents and sister to Achill Island, which I had wanted to visit for several years prior.
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

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WHBM wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 16:41 These signs are commonly placed where there is, or has been, an issue with visitors setting off on the wrong side. Contrary to some belief, this does not tend to happen immediately leaving the port, but maybe at the other end of the country.

Generally, but not always, due to having a European car driven from the opposite side. But the Avis manager at Heathrow told me that they get it on their cars too, obviously UK spec. He said the worst are Americans. They had even had wrong side collisions there inside their compound, before the renter had got out onto the roads. This does also explain why the signs are written in English as well, which I have heard questioned.
FosseWay wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 15:25 One reason for them at the NI border may be that tourists from right-side countries may have grasped that the UK drives on the left but not that the Republic also does. The thinking may be that such people may equate crossing an international border with a change of sides, especially since e.g. having speeds/distances in km may reinforce the impression that things are "back to normal" from the perspective of the overseas driver.
That might be the case except NI/RoI border is normally completely unmarked as such, and if it was marked likely the sign would be defaced within minutes.
The NI/RoI borders are quite clearly marked, as any Sabristi will know - the white edge marking change to yellow as you cross the border. There are also a few other highly visible markers such as speed limits changing. :D
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

Post by WHBM »

A further Ireland border sign is traditionally two petrol station sites, one each side; one is abandoned while the other operates, the operating one rolls back and forth depending on the fuel taxes and exchange rates at the time. Commonly both sites are owned by the same person.
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

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I have also been told that another common sign of the border is a barn that appear to be half in one property and half in the other.
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

Post by Cian »

There was an mp/h sign on Arranmore Island in Donegal for many, many years after the changeover. The Streetview is Summer 2010 but it was there after that. Can't confirm its still there.

This was from some half-arsed attempt at signing a 30mp/h limit for the village areas on the island, which was never done coherently, and that's likely why it got forgotten!

There is very little official road signage on the entire island - a handful of stop and géill slí signs only really. There's this inconsistent sign/marking setup at least.
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

Post by Having a cuppa »

Cian wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 18:25 There was an mp/h sign on Arranmore Island in Donegal for many, many years after the changeover. The Streetview is Summer 2010 but it was there after that. Can't confirm its still there.
Thanks for posting this. What I find interesting about the old Irish mph signs is the typeface didn't seem to have been standardized. From the pictures I've seen, all Irish 30 mph signs had a flat top variant of the number three, however some use a typeface similar to Ministry https://www.roads.org.uk/index.php/fonts, while others look like this: https://www.alamy.com/april-2001-a-30mp ... 38147.html.
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

Post by Owain »

FosseWay wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 08:14
WHBM wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 16:41
FosseWay wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 15:25 One reason for them at the NI border may be that tourists from right-side countries may have grasped that the UK drives on the left but not that the Republic also does. The thinking may be that such people may equate crossing an international border with a change of sides, especially since e.g. having speeds/distances in km may reinforce the impression that things are "back to normal" from the perspective of the overseas driver.
That might be the case except NI/RoI border is normally completely unmarked as such, and if it was marked likely the sign would be defaced within minutes.
Politically unmarked it may be, but completely unmarked it isn't - the speed limit, road markings and other signs change. Apart from on the smallest roads, where the side of the road you're on is academic, there is IME always some form of evidence that you've crossed the border, and even if there happens to be no speed limit etc. at the border, there will be one within a few km as you drive further into the Republic.
Even if there tends not to be any acknowledgement of the fact that you have entered a different state, it is quite common that on the major routes you will be notified of the fact that you have entered a different county. For example:

Monaghan / Tyrone
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

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Owain wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 16:08 Even if there tends not to be any acknowledgement of the fact that you have entered a different state, it is quite common that on the major routes you will be notified of the fact that you have entered a different county. For example:

Monaghan / Tyrone
My experience was that the border is better marked than some frontiers between other countries, such as Belgium's borders with its neighbours. The only big difference is that with the exception of a few 'Welcome to Northern Ireland' signs there is no acknowledgment of the change of the state you are in.
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

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exiled wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:34
Owain wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 16:08 Even if there tends not to be any acknowledgement of the fact that you have entered a different state, it is quite common that on the major routes you will be notified of the fact that you have entered a different county. For example:

Monaghan / Tyrone
My experience was that the border is better marked than some frontiers between other countries, such as Belgium's borders with its neighbours. The only big difference is that with the exception of a few 'Welcome to Northern Ireland' signs there is no acknowledgment of the change of the state you are in.
This looks like a pretty well-marked border to me.
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

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Owain wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 16:08 Monaghan/Tyrone
I wonder how many from outside Ireland could say which country those two are in :)

I wonder why in the Gaelic areas (and in Scotland) the "Drive on the left" signs are not in Gaelic as well. What do they do with them in Wales ?

And while we are pondering, why are cars supplied in N Ireland required to have speedometers calibrated in both mph and kmph, whereas those supplied just across the border in Ireland are not dual calibrated (I know it's different legislation; I just wonder why).
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

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Chris Bertram wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 13:20
exiled wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:34
Owain wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 16:08 Even if there tends not to be any acknowledgement of the fact that you have entered a different state, it is quite common that on the major routes you will be notified of the fact that you have entered a different county. For example:

Monaghan / Tyrone
My experience was that the border is better marked than some frontiers between other countries, such as Belgium's borders with its neighbours. The only big difference is that with the exception of a few 'Welcome to Northern Ireland' signs there is no acknowledgment of the change of the state you are in.
This looks like a pretty well-marked border to me.
Ah, Baarle Hartog/Nassau. Some places are marked, some are not if out of the centre. The actual road signage seems to be Dutch rather than Belgian standards.
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

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WHBM wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 13:21 And while we are pondering, why are cars supplied in N Ireland required to have speedometers calibrated in both mph and kmph, whereas those supplied just across the border in Ireland are not dual calibrated (I know it's different legislation; I just wonder why).
Other than in Canada there isn't a source for KmH speedometers with a minor scale in MPH.
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

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WHBM wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 13:21
Owain wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 16:08 Monaghan/Tyrone
I wonder how many from outside Ireland could say which country those two are in :)

I wonder why in the Gaelic areas (and in Scotland) the "Drive on the left" signs are not in Gaelic as well. What do they do with them in Wales ?

And while we are pondering, why are cars supplied in N Ireland required to have speedometers calibrated in both mph and kmph, whereas those supplied just across the border in Ireland are not dual calibrated (I know it's different legislation; I just wonder why).
Why is it not in Irish, or in Gaelic in Scotland? As the Irish sign advice about them says.
Since Sign W 169 is intended for foreign drivers
whose primary language is not English, there is no
need for an Irish version, even in Gaeltacht areas.
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

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Cian wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 18:25 There was an mp/h sign on Arranmore Island in Donegal for many, many years after the changeover. The Streetview is Summer 2010 but it was there after that. Can't confirm its still there.
It was there in the summer of 2011. Unfortunately haven't been back to Ireland, with the exception of a flying visit to Dublin, since then (more of a pain to get there from here than from the UK).
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

Post by WHBM »

Since Sign W 169 is intended for foreign drivers
whose primary language is not English, there is no
need for an Irish version, even in Gaeltacht areas
As we know from a recent well-publicised accident in Oxfordshire, some of the "wrong siders" are very much English speakers. The same as described to me and quoted above by a Heathrow rental car manager.
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

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WHBM wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 17:14
Since Sign W 169 is intended for foreign drivers
whose primary language is not English, there is no
need for an Irish version, even in Gaeltacht areas
As we know from a recent well-publicised accident in Oxfordshire, some of the "wrong siders" are very much English speakers. The same as described to me and quoted above by a Heathrow rental car manager.
The sign in Ireland is in English, French, and German.
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

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exiled wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 18:12
WHBM wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 17:14
Since Sign W 169 is intended for foreign drivers
whose primary language is not English, there is no
need for an Irish version, even in Gaeltacht areas
As we know from a recent well-publicised accident in Oxfordshire, some of the "wrong siders" are very much English speakers. The same as described to me and quoted above by a Heathrow rental car manager.
The sign in Ireland is in English, French, and German.
As there will be a fair number of American visitors researching their distant family ancestry, having the sign in English seems like a worthwhile precaution. Though you might have thought that using a RHD hire car might have been a clue ...
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Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

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Chris Bertram wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 18:58As there will be a fair number of American visitors researching their distant family ancestry, having the sign in English seems like a worthwhile precaution. Though you might have thought that using a RHD hire car might have been a clue ...
Plenty of British and Irish tourists have done the same in reverse. Even with the wheel in the right place for the rule of the road, custom takes over.
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