Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.

There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).

Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.

Moderator: Site Management Team

User avatar
RJDG14
Member
Posts: 8870
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 15:47
Location: Swindon
Contact:

Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

Post by RJDG14 »

I've regularly come across these yellow billingual English/French/German signs when I've been in the Republic of Ireland, and find that their placement can be a little weird. While it makes sense for them to be located outside port exits, I've never understood why they exist at many of the more major Irish border crossings from Northern Ireland, since Northern Ireland also drives on the left, and I've also encountered them at fairly random points such as past roundabouts in County Donegal or on N-roads 30 miles north of Dublin. Does anyone here know why they're quite common in Ireland compared with their UK counterpart, which is only generally found near ports and airports?
RJDG14

See my Geograph profile here - http://www.geograph.org.uk/profile/74193
The Swindon Files - Swindon's modern history - http://rjdg14.altervista.org/swindon/

----
If I break a policy designed only to protect me and nobody else, have I really broken anything?
User avatar
SouthWest Philip
Member
Posts: 3478
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2002 19:35
Location: Evesham, Worcestershire

Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

Post by SouthWest Philip »

They're quite common in the Scottish Highlands too where there is a problem with tourists stopping to admire the view then setting off, on quiet roads, on the wrong side.
User avatar
Conekicker
Member
Posts: 3754
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 22:32
Location: South Yorks

Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

Post by Conekicker »

SouthWest Philip wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:48 They're quite common in the Scottish Highlands too where there is a problem with tourists stopping to admire the view then setting off, on quiet roads, on the wrong side.
Got any examples please?
Patience is not a virtue - it's a concept invented by the dozy beggars who are unable to think quickly enough.
User avatar
trickstat
Member
Posts: 8738
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 14:06
Location: Letchworth Gdn City, Herts

Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

Post by trickstat »

Conekicker wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 12:46
SouthWest Philip wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:48 They're quite common in the Scottish Highlands too where there is a problem with tourists stopping to admire the view then setting off, on quiet roads, on the wrong side.
Got any examples please?
I've found this one at the exit from the Glencoe Visitor Centre:

https://www.google.com/maps/@56.6706078 ... 312!8i6656
User avatar
Conekicker
Member
Posts: 3754
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 22:32
Location: South Yorks

Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

Post by Conekicker »

trickstat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 13:22
Conekicker wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 12:46
SouthWest Philip wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:48 They're quite common in the Scottish Highlands too where there is a problem with tourists stopping to admire the view then setting off, on quiet roads, on the wrong side.
Got any examples please?
I've found this one at the exit from the Glencoe Visitor Centre:

https://www.google.com/maps/@56.6706078 ... 312!8i6656
Could they have made the 'x' height any smaller?! Not very legible from the other side of the road I think, especially when you're concentrating on pulling out of the junction.
Patience is not a virtue - it's a concept invented by the dozy beggars who are unable to think quickly enough.
User avatar
FosseWay
Assistant Site Manager
Posts: 19621
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 22:26
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

Post by FosseWay »

One reason for them at the NI border may be that tourists from right-side countries may have grasped that the UK drives on the left but not that the Republic also does. The thinking may be that such people may equate crossing an international border with a change of sides, especially since e.g. having speeds/distances in km may reinforce the impression that things are "back to normal" from the perspective of the overseas driver.
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
KrisW
Member
Posts: 163
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 16:02
Location: Ireland

Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

Post by KrisW »

The signs were always placed near popular tourist attractions in rural areas. Might that place "30 miles north of Dublin" have been near to the Brú na Bóinne complex that includes the Newgrange passage tomb?

Here’s the current guideline for the new, smaller, design of this sign: Traffic Signs Advice Note: Drive on Left Signs

Reading between the lines of that document, there may have previously been a directive that said the signs had to be located at entry points to the Republic, without excluding Northern Ireland from that rule. This did create some strange placements, which the document shows.

On a related note, when Cork Airport was redeveloped in the 2000s, just one of the many awful sign designs installed by the airport company included one erected just before the exit of the airport complex that read exactly as follows:
"Drive on the left
Conduire à droite
Links fahren"


It was patched a month or two later.
Herned
Member
Posts: 1363
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 09:15

Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

Post by Herned »

KrisW wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 15:47 On a related note, when Cork Airport was redeveloped in the 2000s, just one of the many awful sign designs installed by the airport company included one erected just before the exit of the airport complex that read exactly as follows:
"Drive on the left
Conduire à droite
Links fahren"


It was patched a month or two later.
Perhaps the writer didn't like the French?
User avatar
Glen
Social Media Admin
Posts: 5426
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 02:16
Location: Inbhir Pheofharain
Contact:

Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

Post by Glen »

Conekicker wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 12:46Got any examples please?
Image
WHBM
Member
Posts: 9707
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 18:01
Location: London

Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

Post by WHBM »

These signs are commonly placed where there is, or has been, an issue with visitors setting off on the wrong side. Contrary to some belief, this does not tend to happen immediately leaving the port, but maybe at the other end of the country.

Generally, but not always, due to having a European car driven from the opposite side. But the Avis manager at Heathrow told me that they get it on their cars too, obviously UK spec. He said the worst are Americans. They had even had wrong side collisions there inside their compound, before the renter had got out onto the roads. This does also explain why the signs are written in English as well, which I have heard questioned.
FosseWay wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 15:25 One reason for them at the NI border may be that tourists from right-side countries may have grasped that the UK drives on the left but not that the Republic also does. The thinking may be that such people may equate crossing an international border with a change of sides, especially since e.g. having speeds/distances in km may reinforce the impression that things are "back to normal" from the perspective of the overseas driver.
That might be the case except NI/RoI border is normally completely unmarked as such, and if it was marked likely the sign would be defaced within minutes.
User avatar
RJDG14
Member
Posts: 8870
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 15:47
Location: Swindon
Contact:

Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

Post by RJDG14 »

SouthWest Philip wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:48 They're quite common in the Scottish Highlands too where there is a problem with tourists stopping to admire the view then setting off, on quiet roads, on the wrong side.
I feel I may vaugley remember some when I was there in 2014.

I think areas like Donegal and Scotland are quite popular with German tourists.
RJDG14

See my Geograph profile here - http://www.geograph.org.uk/profile/74193
The Swindon Files - Swindon's modern history - http://rjdg14.altervista.org/swindon/

----
If I break a policy designed only to protect me and nobody else, have I really broken anything?
User avatar
bothar
Member
Posts: 4809
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 22:50
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

Post by bothar »

RJDG14 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:46 I've regularly come across these yellow billingual English/French/German signs when I've been in the Republic of Ireland, and find that their placement can be a little weird. While it makes sense for them to be located outside port exits, I've never understood why they exist at many of the more major Irish border crossings from Northern Ireland, since Northern Ireland also drives on the left, and I've also encountered them at fairly random points such as past roundabouts in County Donegal or on N-roads 30 miles north of Dublin. Does anyone here know why they're quite common in Ireland compared with their UK counterpart, which is only generally found near ports and airports?
I don't think they do generally exist at border crossings. Those examples that do are an example of Donegal County Council having a budget at some time in the past and putting some signs here and there.
As for the signs being common, in a normal year the west of Ireland has more motoring tourists as a percentage of traffic than most parts of the UK. Driving on the wrong side is much more likely on a quiet road than a busy one. That said, I'm not sure that the signs are actually any use. Sadly, there are accidents every year with this being a contributory cause.
Crossing to the wrong side to take in the view and then driving off on that side is indeed a most dangerous combination.
"I intend to always travel a different road"
Ibn Battuta 1304-1368
User avatar
RJDG14
Member
Posts: 8870
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 15:47
Location: Swindon
Contact:

Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

Post by RJDG14 »

WHBM wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 16:41 These signs are commonly placed where there is, or has been, an issue with visitors setting off on the wrong side. Contrary to some belief, this does not tend to happen immediately leaving the port, but maybe at the other end of the country.

Generally, but not always, due to having a European car driven from the opposite side. But the Avis manager at Heathrow told me that they get it on their cars too, obviously UK spec. He said the worst are Americans. They had even had wrong side collisions there inside their compound, before the renter had got out onto the roads. This does also explain why the signs are written in English as well, which I have heard questioned.
FosseWay wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 15:25 One reason for them at the NI border may be that tourists from right-side countries may have grasped that the UK drives on the left but not that the Republic also does. The thinking may be that such people may equate crossing an international border with a change of sides, especially since e.g. having speeds/distances in km may reinforce the impression that things are "back to normal" from the perspective of the overseas driver.
That might be the case except NI/RoI border is normally completely unmarked as such, and if it was marked likely the sign would be defaced within minutes.
There are a handful of border crossings which read "Welcome to Northern Ireland". In Nationalist border regions many of these have been defaced with "Northern" sprayed out, but you can still make out what's meant to be there. I can't think of any Republic of Ireland entry signs at the border that mention Ireland/Eire (and the Republic prefix is unofficial) - it will typically just be a km/h speed limit sign along with "Speed limits in km/h" and a change in the road markings, and in some cases a settlement sign or a "drive on left" sign (or both, in the case of Lifford).

I saw a couple of old pre-metrification mph speed limit signs on minor roads in Co. Mayo back in 2017.


Something else I find weird would be how the majority of visible intersections in Ireland, at least on major roads, have Stop signs instead of Yield ones, yet a majority of junctions in Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK have Give Way signs unless there are visibility issues, sometimes (especially in England) not having any sign at all. I'm guessing that the ROI's policy on signage placement is different to that of the UK, although I've found that in practice most vehicles in Ireland treat a stop sign at a visible junction very similarly to how people in the UK treat a give way sign.

It's also weird how you see warnings in Ireland about Japanese Knotweed whereas in the UK it's unmarked. I believe some other countries also warn about it.

I think I've also seen the Drive on Left signs on sections of the N1 and N2.
RJDG14

See my Geograph profile here - http://www.geograph.org.uk/profile/74193
The Swindon Files - Swindon's modern history - http://rjdg14.altervista.org/swindon/

----
If I break a policy designed only to protect me and nobody else, have I really broken anything?
WHBM
Member
Posts: 9707
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 18:01
Location: London

Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

Post by WHBM »

RJDG14 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 17:12
Something else I find weird would be how the majority of visible intersections in Ireland, at least on major roads, have Stop signs instead of Yield ones, yet a majority of junctions in Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK have Give Way signs unless there are visibility issues, sometimes (especially in England) not having any sign at all. I'm guessing that the ROI's policy on signage placement is different to that of the UK, although I've found that in practice most vehicles in Ireland treat a stop sign at a visible junction very similarly to how people in the UK treat a give way sign.
It certainly used to be the case that in the UK a STOP sign had to be authorised by the DfT, and was only allowed for specific hazardous situations only. Presumably Ireland had a different approach, tending to the USA style where a Stop sign is the norm, but is really treated as "Stop if necessary".

I'm aware of one junction in Birkenhead between minor streets which once had a notorious multi-fatality accident. Their Highways team rebuilt it with multiple signage and much channelisation, but it failed the criteria for a Stop instead of a Give Way.
User avatar
RJDG14
Member
Posts: 8870
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 15:47
Location: Swindon
Contact:

Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

Post by RJDG14 »

WHBM wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 17:44
RJDG14 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 17:12
Something else I find weird would be how the majority of visible intersections in Ireland, at least on major roads, have Stop signs instead of Yield ones, yet a majority of junctions in Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK have Give Way signs unless there are visibility issues, sometimes (especially in England) not having any sign at all. I'm guessing that the ROI's policy on signage placement is different to that of the UK, although I've found that in practice most vehicles in Ireland treat a stop sign at a visible junction very similarly to how people in the UK treat a give way sign.
It certainly used to be the case that in the UK a STOP sign had to be authorised by the DfT, and was only allowed for specific hazardous situations only. Presumably Ireland had a different approach, tending to the USA style where a Stop sign is the norm, but is really treated as "Stop if necessary".

I'm aware of one junction in Birkenhead between minor streets which once had a notorious multi-fatality accident. Their Highways team rebuilt it with multiple signage and much channelisation, but it failed the criteria for a Stop instead of a Give Way.
I believe in the US a driver can be given a ticket by the police for failing to stop completely at such a sign.

I think Stop signs are also the norm in some countries such as France and South Africa (I think most countries other than the US, Canada and South Africa are generally unenforcive of failing to stop completely), although countries such as the Netherlands along with the Scandinavian countries, most of Eastern Europe and Australia/New Zealand favour Yield/Give Way at most junctions. In theory not stopping completely is an offence in Ireland, though many people do so, even when the Gardai are visible:

https://www.theaa.ie/aa/motoring-advice ... oints.aspx

I know that jaywalking is also technically an offence in both Northern Ireland and the Republic, but everybody still does it like in England (where it's completely legal) and neither country has ever widely enforced their law on the matter to my knowledge.

Stop signs are slightly more common in Scotland and Northern Ireland than in England, which may indicate that it's still general guidance to use a Give Way sign at most junctions but a Stop sign may not require permission.
RJDG14

See my Geograph profile here - http://www.geograph.org.uk/profile/74193
The Swindon Files - Swindon's modern history - http://rjdg14.altervista.org/swindon/

----
If I break a policy designed only to protect me and nobody else, have I really broken anything?
User avatar
IAN
Member
Posts: 1494
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2001 19:07

Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

Post by IAN »

RJDG14 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 16:59
SouthWest Philip wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:48 They're quite common in the Scottish Highlands too where there is a problem with tourists stopping to admire the view then setting off, on quiet roads, on the wrong side.
I feel I may vaugley remember some when I was there in 2014.

I think areas like Donegal and Scotland are quite popular with German tourists.
There's also this unexpected warning sign near Altnaharra. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@58.24059 ... 312!8i6656
AKA M5 Driver
User avatar
RichardA626
Member
Posts: 7809
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 22:19
Location: Stockport
Contact:

Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

Post by RichardA626 »

RJDG14 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 17:12
It's also weird how you see warnings in Ireland about Japanese Knotweed whereas in the UK it's unmarked. I believe some other countries also warn about it.
Slightly OT but worth mentioning that my local tip has a sign telling you not to dump Japanese Knotweed in the garden waste container.
Beware of the trickster on the roof
User avatar
FosseWay
Assistant Site Manager
Posts: 19621
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 22:26
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

Post by FosseWay »

WHBM wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 16:41
FosseWay wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 15:25 One reason for them at the NI border may be that tourists from right-side countries may have grasped that the UK drives on the left but not that the Republic also does. The thinking may be that such people may equate crossing an international border with a change of sides, especially since e.g. having speeds/distances in km may reinforce the impression that things are "back to normal" from the perspective of the overseas driver.
That might be the case except NI/RoI border is normally completely unmarked as such, and if it was marked likely the sign would be defaced within minutes.
Politically unmarked it may be, but completely unmarked it isn't - the speed limit, road markings and other signs change. Apart from on the smallest roads, where the side of the road you're on is academic, there is IME always some form of evidence that you've crossed the border, and even if there happens to be no speed limit etc. at the border, there will be one within a few km as you drive further into the Republic.
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
WHBM
Member
Posts: 9707
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 18:01
Location: London

Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

Post by WHBM »

FosseWay wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 08:14 Politically unmarked it may be, but completely unmarked it isn't - the speed limit, road markings and other signs change. Apart from on the smallest roads, where the side of the road you're on is academic, there is IME always some form of evidence that you've crossed the border, and even if there happens to be no speed limit etc. at the border, there will be one within a few km as you drive further into the Republic.
Yes, the sort of things known to us lot (I always look for the point where the carriageway edge lines change from yellow to white). But the driver who understands these things is unlikely to be unaware that the traffic continues to drive on the left !

There are also, bizarrely, often large signs for places selling fireworks !

It used to be that the carriageway surface deteriorated within about a mile each side of the border, as if road rollers were not allowed there, even (in fact particularly) on the A1/N1 main route, pre-motorway. But those times have gone.
User avatar
Having a cuppa
Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2020 05:27
Location: North of Vice City

Re: Why does the Republic of Ireland have so many billingual "Drive on Left" signs?

Post by Having a cuppa »

RJDG14 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 17:12 I saw a couple of old pre-metrification mph speed limit signs on minor roads in Co. Mayo back in 2017.
Do you have any street view links of these remaining signs or at least remember the area?
My car gets 90 leagues to the firkin and that's the way I like it!
Post Reply