Largest settlement without any sort of bypass or relief road

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Glenn A
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Re: Largest settlement without any sort of bypass or relief road

Post by Glenn A »

Chris Bertram wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 17:54
Glenn A wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 17:29
Rob590 wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 21:57 (Not the biggest but a relatively large one:) Winderemere and Bowness are between them about 12,000 and the A roads through town follow their original routes.
I was driving from Kendal to Keswick yesterday and the road passes through every settlement like it would have done 50 years ago. By passing all these settlements would be very expensive and politically impossible due to the National Park. However, the ban on lorries above 7.5 tons has made some improvement to communities like Ambleside.
They're not banned from reaching Ambleside, are they? IIRC there's a ban from going over Dunmail Raise, therefore ruling it out as a through route to Keswick.
Sorry they can go as far as Ambleside town centre, but cannot proceed to Keswick. I believe this ban came in during the mid seventies when HGVs were encouraged to use the M6 over the A591 to reach Keswick and the west coast. Mind you, for all the scenery is beautiful, the A591 from Windermere to Grasmere is a complete drag to drive on.
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ajuk
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Re: Largest settlement without any sort of bypass or relief road

Post by ajuk »

I think a few of the examples given are through passes such as Sailsbury, the op asked about settlements without any sort of bypass, however I think I will give a pass if the main road has been redirected down an existing road to avoid a high street.
The A4 through Bath comes to mind, but the city is not one that does not have any sort of bypass.
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Re: Largest settlement without any sort of bypass or relief road

Post by jgharston »

Has Scarborough been mentioned? Every route between north/south, north/west requires you to go through town. Resident population about 60,000.
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multiraider2
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Re: Largest settlement without any sort of bypass or relief road

Post by multiraider2 »

Glenn A wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 18:23
Sorry they can go as far as Ambleside town centre, but cannot proceed to Keswick. I believe this ban came in during the mid seventies when HGVs were encouraged to use the M6 over the A591 to reach Keswick and the west coast. Mind you, for all the scenery is beautiful, the A591 from Windermere to Grasmere is a complete drag to drive on.
Agreed but at least after that you then have the prospect of an easy drag race up the wide S2 hill after that. Most tourists don't know what to do here and just dawdle in too-high a gear. Easy pickings.

Having said that, there were drain works south of Ambleside the last time I went in October with temporary traffic lights. I think I lost about half an hour in the queue there and traffic pushing in from the Troutbeck turn didn't help. Between the mountains and the lake there is just nowhere to divert to or build a road to and the queues for Ambleside will last until the end of humanity or at least currently allowed mobility.
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Re: Largest settlement without any sort of bypass or relief road

Post by mfmman »

ajuk wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 02:25
The A4 through Bath comes to mind, but the city is not one that does not have any sort of bypass.

Bath doesn't have a bypass in the truest sense of the word, the Batheaston bypass could take traffic away that might go along the edge of the city otherwise (A46 to A36) but none of that would be going through the centre of Bath, I'm not convinced of the reality of it though. I think long distance traffic is more likely to use the ever improving northern section of the A350 to get to Warminster and beyond.

Same area, Westbury (pop. 19,000). No bypass, main routes still through the town. The railway station has a bypass though!
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Re: Largest settlement without any sort of bypass or relief road

Post by Herned »

mfmman wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 19:18 Bath doesn't have a bypass in the truest sense of the word, the Bathampton bypass could take traffic away that might go along the edge of the city otherwise (A46 to A36) but none of that would be going through the centre of Bath, I'm not convinced of the reality of it though. I think long distance traffic is more likely to use the ever improving northern section of the A350 to get to Warminster and beyond.
The M4 is the bypass for Bath for long distance traffic
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trickstat
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Re: Largest settlement without any sort of bypass or relief road

Post by trickstat »

Herned wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 19:22
mfmman wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 19:18 Bath doesn't have a bypass in the truest sense of the word, the Bathampton bypass could take traffic away that might go along the edge of the city otherwise (A46 to A36) but none of that would be going through the centre of Bath, I'm not convinced of the reality of it though. I think long distance traffic is more likely to use the ever improving northern section of the A350 to get to Warminster and beyond.
The M4 is the bypass for Bath for long distance traffic
It is arguable that the M4 alone disqualifies Bath, as it bypasses the A4 that goes through the city, unlike, for example, the aforementioned Letchworth and Welwyn Garden Cities that were never on the A1/Great North Road.
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Re: Largest settlement without any sort of bypass or relief road

Post by SouthWest Philip »

trickstat wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 19:35 It is arguable that the M4 alone disqualifies Bath, as it bypasses the A4 that goes through the city, unlike, for example, the aforementioned Letchworth and Welwyn Garden Cities that were never on the A1/Great North Road.
Although the A420 always bypassed Bath and the A4 originally ended there.
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ajuk
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Re: Largest settlement without any sort of bypass or relief road

Post by ajuk »

SouthWest Philip wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 19:57
trickstat wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 19:35 It is arguable that the M4 alone disqualifies Bath, as it bypasses the A4 that goes through the city, unlike, for example, the aforementioned Letchworth and Welwyn Garden Cities that were never on the A1/Great North Road.
Although the A420 always bypassed Bath and the A4 originally ended there.
Yes, I never understood, why the A4 was the road that went on to Bath rather than the A420, I think that was always the main route to London at least since the turnpike era I think before that it went through Acton Turville and Upper Castle Coombe, I'm not sure.
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Re: Largest settlement without any sort of bypass or relief road

Post by millionmiledriver »

I would suggest Tunbridge Wells yes the A26 goes just north of the town centre and of course the A21 is some miles away It is a pig of a place if you are going east west
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Re: Largest settlement without any sort of bypass or relief road

Post by Glenn A »

owen b wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 21:11
Glenn A wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 20:20
Rob590 wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 21:57 (Not the biggest but a relatively large one:) Winderemere and Bowness are between them about 12,000 and the A roads through town follow their original routes.
No way anywhere on the A591 south of Keswick could be realistically by passed. I'm driving from Whitehaven to Kendal tomorrow to see my sister and I'm doing it the A66/M6/A6 route as this time of year, the A591 is torture.
Hansard says there was a Cumbria county council consultation on a proposed Ambleside bypass in 1992 : https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hans ... -ambleside and there was a SABRE thread entitled "Ambleside Relief Road" here : viewtopic.php?t=7758
Nice idea, but politically impossible in the Lake District. Also Bowness on Windermere would be a political no no.
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Re: Largest settlement without any sort of bypass or relief road

Post by ForestChav »

I'd argue if you are coming north on the A591 and turn left at Waterhead you're basically bypassing Ambleside anyway. Though you do eventually get pulled into the 1-way system around the A593, as you would anyway, at least last time I went that way...
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Re: Largest settlement without any sort of bypass or relief road

Post by owen b »

Glenn A wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 20:12
owen b wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 21:11
Glenn A wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 20:20
No way anywhere on the A591 south of Keswick could be realistically by passed. I'm driving from Whitehaven to Kendal tomorrow to see my sister and I'm doing it the A66/M6/A6 route as this time of year, the A591 is torture.
Hansard says there was a Cumbria county council consultation on a proposed Ambleside bypass in 1992 : https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hans ... -ambleside and there was a SABRE thread entitled "Ambleside Relief Road" here : viewtopic.php?t=7758
Nice idea, but politically impossible in the Lake District. Also Bowness on Windermere would be a political no no.
In 2021 yes, I agree, it is politically and environmentally a non-starter. In 1992, pre-Twyford Down Cumbria county council was clearly serious about it. Some extremely environmentally contentious roads were built in that era : A30 Okehampton bypass and Honiton-Exeter, M3 Twyford Down, A34 Newbury bypass to name three off the top of my head.
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Re: Largest settlement without any sort of bypass or relief road

Post by ChrisH »

For this thread I would have to suggest South London. The area from the A3 in the west to the A20 in the east, from the Inner Ring Road in the North to Croydon in the south (or even the M25) has virtually no modern roads in it, apart from very short stretches around Wandsworth. The centre of this area is 6-8 miles from a dual carriageway in any direction, which can take an hour at busy times.

Close to 2 million people live in this area which must be higher than every other place listed in this thread added together!
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Re: Largest settlement without any sort of bypass or relief road

Post by Glenn A »

ForestChav wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 22:29 I'd argue if you are coming north on the A591 and turn left at Waterhead you're basically bypassing Ambleside anyway. Though you do eventually get pulled into the 1-way system around the A593, as you would anyway, at least last time I went that way...
I was driving on there last week, and it is a by pass of sorts, but it is still painfully slow with all the tourist traffic and then is 20 mph in parts.
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Re: Largest settlement without any sort of bypass or relief road

Post by ForestChav »

Glenn A wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 20:09
ForestChav wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 22:29 I'd argue if you are coming north on the A591 and turn left at Waterhead you're basically bypassing Ambleside anyway. Though you do eventually get pulled into the 1-way system around the A593, as you would anyway, at least last time I went that way...
I was driving on there last week, and it is a by pass of sorts, but it is still painfully slow with all the tourist traffic and then is 20 mph in parts.
Yes, I've not been that way for a while (since I was a kid) but even then it wasn't ever really bypassing a lot. Just a slightly quicker way to the A593, which I'm not really convinced you'd be going to from much anyway which you wouldn't get to from other areas - from Windermere the ferry across to Coniston is possibly quicker - and then it puts you straight into the same 1-way system than if you'd stayed up the A591 anyway. And it's no good at all going the other way because that bit of A591 isn't worth going round to bypass.

The middle of the town is quite narrow isn't it, with the pavements not being particularly wide either, so really should be 20 and quite why it hasn't been bypassed, given that through traffic is such a bad idea for the town anyway, you'd have thought they'd be crying out for one. And it wouldn't be that much effort to carry straight on from the A593 junction skirting the church (I want to see that as it has a Hope-Jones organ in a relatively preserved state - not many of those left now) to the west, almost heading exactly north to the A591 again, wouldn't be too disruptive.
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Re: Largest settlement without any sort of bypass or relief road

Post by JackieRoads »

I will nominate the following:

- Trowbridge
It has no bypass or relief road.

- Billericay
Can't see any bypass nor relief road.

- Llanelli
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Glenn A
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Re: Largest settlement without any sort of bypass or relief road

Post by Glenn A »

How about Rhyl,the A548 goes right through the town, same as Prestatyn?
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Re: Largest settlement without any sort of bypass or relief road

Post by jgharston »

Northallerton. Not only does it have no bypass, it's in the middle of nowhere halfway between the A19 and the A1, and is the county town!
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Re: Largest settlement without any sort of bypass or relief road

Post by Rambo »

There are plenty of examples where roads have been moved or realigned to miss the town 'centre' as such. But may not technically constitute as a bypass. My home town Warrington technically has no bypass of the town (if you discount the m6/m62/m56 motorways). The A57 / A49 used to run straight through the town centre but have been altered several times over the years to skirt around it while still more or less being central through the town itself. I would say that the surrounding motorways, being close enough would constitute as a bypass in this case.
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