Wikipedia has incorrect figure for UK Expressway length

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Bryn666
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Re: Wikipedia has incorrect figure for UK Expressway length

Post by Bryn666 »

JohnnyMo wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 19:36
Herned wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 18:48
JohnnyMo wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 14:59 Picnic area
How many others of those are there on British dual carriageways - I can't think of any off the top of my head
The one I showed on the A120 is the only one (pair?) I know about signed as Rest Area
It looks like the A120 pre-dated HE's "expressway" no-show propaganda by about 20 years. What an excellent piece of infrastructure.
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Re: Wikipedia has incorrect figure for UK Expressway length

Post by jervi »

Herned wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 18:48
JohnnyMo wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 14:59 Picnic area
How many others of those are there on British dual carriageways - I can't think of any off the top of my head
Although not quite up to "rest area" credentials, the ones on the A46 Brough Bypass are fairly substantial. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.11789 ... a=!3m1!1e3
Fully setback from the carriageway, and allows parking on either side of the layby. Also has benches in the grassy area. Maybe these were some sort of pilot into rest areas on HQDC, but was never really followed through on? The rest of the A46 upgrade between Newark and Lincoln is very sub-par for being built post 2000, except these laybys it seems.
If our Trunk Road network (inc motorways) had these every 10-15 minutes/miles it would be very nice, providing limited facilities such as water, telephones/wifi & vending machines & maybe toilets too. And then have a full MSA every 4th one (i.e. 40-60 mins/miles)
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Re: Wikipedia has incorrect figure for UK Expressway length

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JohnnyMo wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 19:42
JRN wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 18:39
The French one is so much better TBH. Ideally we would get rid of traditional laybys and replace them with these off-carriageway rest areas with proper facilities.
Note that in the French example you gave, the Expressway restrictions are explicitly cancelled as you enter it, then re-instated before traffic re-enters the road, just like in a Motorway service area.
Whereas on the example you gave on the A120, even though that section has a TRO in place banning cyclists etc., there is no explicit signing of where the TRO restrictions end and start.
Motorway's have no stopping except in an emergency, TRO have no such restrictions, so nothing to suspend.
I guess what I was thinking was (and yes I know this is a bit of a ridiculous "what if" scenario) if 2 people in a car with a bicycle on a bicycle rack pulled into the rest area, and then one of them decided to use the bike and cycle on - how would he know he was breaking the law? Since there is no sign to signal "end of TRO restriction"...
  • MSAs have Motorway signs before you re-enter the Motorway.
  • The French Expressway example had the Expressway "car" sign.
  • Non-motorway special roads like the A720 Edinburgh don't have traditional laybys AFAIK
  • Normal AP roads it doesn't matter.
IDK it probably doesn't really matter but I'd prefer having a dedicated Expressway sign that could be cancelled then started again like on a Motorway.
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Re: Wikipedia has incorrect figure for UK Expressway length

Post by JohnnyMo »

Bryn666 wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 19:51
JohnnyMo wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 19:36
Herned wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 18:48
How many others of those are there on British dual carriageways - I can't think of any off the top of my head
The one I showed on the A120 is the only one (pair?) I know about signed as Rest Area
It looks like the A120 pre-dated HE's "expressway" no-show propaganda by about 20 years. What an excellent piece of infrastructure.
I didn't think it was that old as I remember crawling along the old A120 to the zoo when my daughter were younger. I think the road was part financed by Stanstead Airport to allow it to expand.
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Re: Wikipedia has incorrect figure for UK Expressway length

Post by Bryn666 »

JohnnyMo wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 21:38
Bryn666 wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 19:51
JohnnyMo wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 19:36
The one I showed on the A120 is the only one (pair?) I know about signed as Rest Area
It looks like the A120 pre-dated HE's "expressway" no-show propaganda by about 20 years. What an excellent piece of infrastructure.
I didn't think it was that old as I remember crawling along the old A120 to the zoo when my daughter were younger. I think the road was part financed by Stanstead Airport to allow it to expand.
It was planned in the late 90s and opened around 2003 along with the new M11 junction.

The DMRB made provision for proper picnic areas like these around that time, the idea being that laybys weren't deemed safe enough for high volume routes and would not be used by people in the same way as a fully off-carriageway facility would.
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Re: Wikipedia has incorrect figure for UK Expressway length

Post by Herned »

jervi wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 21:34 Although not quite up to "rest area" credentials, the ones on the A46 Brough Bypass are fairly substantial.
That is quite a good one, we really should have more like that
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Re: Wikipedia has incorrect figure for UK Expressway length

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Bryn666 wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 19:51It looks like the A120 pre-dated HE's "expressway" no-show propaganda by about 20 years. What an excellent piece of infrastructure.
I don’t think it’s a well known bit of road outside that part of the south east, but the A120 between the M11 and Braintree is an astonishingly good bit of road - extraordinarily well specified, seems adequate for the traffic it carries, has rest areas and junctions that would put most trunk roads to shame, and a proper free-flowing connection to the M11 at the end. It’s a well kept secret.
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Re: Wikipedia has incorrect figure for UK Expressway length

Post by Bryn666 »

Chris5156 wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:17
Bryn666 wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 19:51It looks like the A120 pre-dated HE's "expressway" no-show propaganda by about 20 years. What an excellent piece of infrastructure.
I don’t think it’s a well known bit of road outside that part of the south east, but the A120 between the M11 and Braintree is an astonishingly good bit of road - extraordinarily well specified, seems adequate for the traffic it carries, has rest areas and junctions that would put most trunk roads to shame, and a proper free-flowing connection to the M11 at the end. It’s a well kept secret.
Essex pulling a Brittany there I think. Their network of HQDCs seems to put the trunk network to shame.
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Re: Wikipedia has incorrect figure for UK Expressway length

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Chris5156 wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:17
Bryn666 wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 19:51It looks like the A120 pre-dated HE's "expressway" no-show propaganda by about 20 years. What an excellent piece of infrastructure.
I don’t think it’s a well known bit of road outside that part of the south east, but the A120 between the M11 and Braintree is an astonishingly good bit of road - extraordinarily well specified, seems adequate for the traffic it carries, has rest areas and junctions that would put most trunk roads to shame, and a proper free-flowing connection to the M11 at the end. It’s a well kept secret.
I was a regular user of the A120 as a passenger and later a driver from about 83 when we moved to near the western end onwards, and progressive improvements to the route have been excellent. The only two criticisms I've got of the road, are at both ends of it - mixing airport traffic with any other traffic is never good, and Birchanger Green interchange is a dreadful example of how not to do something - allowing planning for both an offline MSA, local accesses to industrial areas and an international airport, coupled with large amounts of commuter and of course regionally strategic routes all around the same access. Sure, the free flow slips and roundabout cut through, and widening of access approaches progressively over the years have helped... but I wouldn't say that it's a good junction!

Then, the other end, where the road just gives up at Braintree, and again, at a location where they've put a shopping centre, and a load of fast food and other eateries again has ended up being flooded with traffic. And I know that when it was all built, there was just a bypass around Braintree and Rayne, but the extension to the A12 has been a long time coming... And a change in circumstances means that I don't go that way very often any more to enjoy it when it eventually is resolved! Ah well..
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Re: Wikipedia has incorrect figure for UK Expressway length

Post by Herned »

Bryn666 wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:30 Essex pulling a Brittany there I think. Their network of HQDCs seems to put the trunk network to shame.
Yes, and how did they get the A130 built as D3?

Minus points for still not having sorted out the nonsense at Laindon though
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Re: Wikipedia has incorrect figure for UK Expressway length

Post by JRN »

Bryn666 wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:30
Chris5156 wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:17
Bryn666 wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 19:51It looks like the A120 pre-dated HE's "expressway" no-show propaganda by about 20 years. What an excellent piece of infrastructure.
I don’t think it’s a well known bit of road outside that part of the south east, but the A120 between the M11 and Braintree is an astonishingly good bit of road - extraordinarily well specified, seems adequate for the traffic it carries, has rest areas and junctions that would put most trunk roads to shame, and a proper free-flowing connection to the M11 at the end. It’s a well kept secret.
Essex pulling a Brittany there I think. Their network of HQDCs seems to put the trunk network to shame.
This kind of thing really ought to have been the standard for all new roads, at least once it became clear that very little if any new D2M would be built.
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Re: Wikipedia has incorrect figure for UK Expressway length

Post by Chris Bertram »

Herned wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:51
Bryn666 wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:30 Essex pulling a Brittany there I think. Their network of HQDCs seems to put the trunk network to shame.
Yes, and how did they get the A130 built as D3?

Minus points for still not having sorted out the nonsense at Laindon though
The Fortunes of War junction? That is dreadful.
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Re: Wikipedia has incorrect figure for UK Expressway length

Post by solocle »

jervi wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 21:34
Herned wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 18:48
JohnnyMo wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 14:59 Picnic area
How many others of those are there on British dual carriageways - I can't think of any off the top of my head
Although not quite up to "rest area" credentials, the ones on the A46 Brough Bypass are fairly substantial. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.11789 ... a=!3m1!1e3
Fully setback from the carriageway, and allows parking on either side of the layby. Also has benches in the grassy area. Maybe these were some sort of pilot into rest areas on HQDC, but was never really followed through on? The rest of the A46 upgrade between Newark and Lincoln is very sub-par for being built post 2000, except these laybys it seems.
If our Trunk Road network (inc motorways) had these every 10-15 minutes/miles it would be very nice, providing limited facilities such as water, telephones/wifi & vending machines & maybe toilets too. And then have a full MSA every 4th one (i.e. 40-60 mins/miles)
A303 Cartgate Roundabout has one - Google Maps
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Re: Wikipedia has incorrect figure for UK Expressway length

Post by havaska_uk »

JohnnyMo wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:19 Michelin has a defn of expressway on their maps, as you see some parts of the A1 & A14 are shown as dual carriageway and other parts as ExpressWay
Sabre Express.jpg

Likewise A3 & A303 are shown as a mixture
They’ve got a few things wrong though; they don’t show the A666 Bolton as expressway despite the fact it clearly is (pedestrians and cyclists are prohibited.).
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