Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

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Truvelo
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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by Truvelo »

Bryn666 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 13:21
gepree68 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:53
Bryn666 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:29 I doubt it, it's built to the same spec as the A470 which is also all-purpose.
But A470 has NO hard shoulder (between M4 J32 and Gabalfa).

A48 does have a hard shoulder between Gabalfa and M4 J29A (except for the bit I mentioned that was turned into a bus lane).
Northern Avenue isn't a high speed dual carriageway. I was referring to the A470 between Coryton and Pontypridd, which is built to the same spec as the A48 Eastern Avenue. Both roads were designed under the auspices of the former Glamorgan County Council - it is unlikely any of Cardiff and its environs motorway plans were actually motorways, just GSJed dual carriageways in the mould of these two and arguably also the later A4232.
Northern Avenue was going to be replaced with a grade separated route to the same standard as that north of Coryton although there is no mention of it being motorway. The only new section of motorway would have been the Llantrisant Radial.

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How would you like your grade separations, Sir?
Big and complex.
mattling
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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by mattling »

This extra wide railway bridge on Earlsdon Avenue North perhaps hints at a wider road planned. This road forms part of Coventry's informal middle-ring, but this wasn't part of Coventry's urban motorway plans. https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4016383 ... a=!3m1!1e3
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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by DB617 »

Truvelo wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 18:51
Bryn666 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 13:21
gepree68 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:53
But A470 has NO hard shoulder (between M4 J32 and Gabalfa).

A48 does have a hard shoulder between Gabalfa and M4 J29A (except for the bit I mentioned that was turned into a bus lane).
Northern Avenue isn't a high speed dual carriageway. I was referring to the A470 between Coryton and Pontypridd, which is built to the same spec as the A48 Eastern Avenue. Both roads were designed under the auspices of the former Glamorgan County Council - it is unlikely any of Cardiff and its environs motorway plans were actually motorways, just GSJed dual carriageways in the mould of these two and arguably also the later A4232.
Northern Avenue was going to be replaced with a grade separated route to the same standard as that north of Coryton although there is no mention of it being motorway. The only new section of motorway would have been the Llantrisant Radial.

Image
What a mess. I really dread to think what some of the lovely old suburbs of Cardiff north would have looked like being surrounded by high speed DCs.
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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by Sunil_of_Yoxley »

SBRoxMan wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 02:22 Whilst I'm very interested in roads, one topic that has always fascinated me is learning about the roads we could've had if things went differently, such as the M64 or the M50-M42 link motorway. I'm curious about how many visual hints we have today of the roads that were never built, some current examples I know of include:

- The M11's bridge over nothing where the M12 was expected to diverge
- The M53's half-built junction where both carriageways split
- The A5052 at the Liverpool Docks is very wide, clearly using the space intended for the Liverpool Urban Motorway

What examples can you all think of?
Don't forget the OTHER M11 bridge over nothing where the M11 would have continued as a D3M towards Leytonstone!

Image

I would also add Hackney Wick, incomplete junction between M11 (now A12), East Cross Route and North Cross Route plus A12 Eastern Avenue Extension.

The A13 Beckton junction with the A406, wide flared carriageways on A406 for the flyover leading to East London River Crossing that was never built.
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Fluid Dynamics
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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by Fluid Dynamics »

jervi wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:51
SBRoxMan wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:23
jervi wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:00 https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.84450 ... a=!3m1!1e3 - The A27 at Crossbush
Considering the M27 was meant to end at Chichester, what was the original plan here?
Crossbush bypass which was built in the 1990s was designed with the Arundel Bypass in mind, in fact an Arundel Bypass was in development while the Crossbush one was being constructed. This is why the GSJ was basically complete with the overbridge and carriageways below. The eastern part of the gyratory was added later (not sure how much later) as a temp embankment to make the gyratory better, although a few years back it had some strengthening works done on it.
https://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/ar ... t_1994.pdf - there are some drawings on the last few pages of this report showing how it was meant to be.
The Arundel Bypass is due to be built sometime in the next few years (although that has been said for the past 30 years) https://highwaysengland.co.uk/our-work/ ... el-bypass/

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37891 - thread on the current bypass scheme

Unfortunately there has never been a plan to extend the M27 beyond Chichester as far as I am aware.
I can recall the road being built and cannot remember a time when the eastern part of the gyrator wasn't there. The junction has been tinkered with, especially the westbound A27 approach, but as I recall it, it pretty much opened as is. As others have said the Arundel bypass was supposed to follow soon afterwards and should have been open for over 20 years.
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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by Herned »

Fluid Dynamics wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 15:28 I can recall the road being built and cannot remember a time when the eastern part of the gyrator wasn't there. The junction has been tinkered with, especially the westbound A27 approach, but as I recall it, it pretty much opened as is. As others have said the Arundel bypass was supposed to follow soon afterwards and should have been open for over 20 years.
I agree, it opened with the "temporary" section across the carriageways. It looked much more ridiculous and temporary before the trees grew up... which also shows how long it has been like it
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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by M4Simon »

Chris5156 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 21:56
someone wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 21:41 I assume the A414s west-facing slip roads onto a green lane to the east of Hoddesdon would have been paired with the east-facing ones onto the B181 as part of an M11 junction when that was originally planned to go around the west and north of Harlow?

https://goo.gl/maps/urUYz5MmjTWFunuo9
No, that's more than a mile north west of the M11's original line - there would have been no connection to the motorway there, and in any case the A414 Stanstead Abbots bypass came many years after the M11 had been rerouted east of Harlow. It's just a weird little junction.
I only ever remember it as a works access, presumably as a turn around for vehicles working on the Stanstead Abbotts viaduct. The geometry is substandard for anything else, and it has never had anything to do with the B181 junction.

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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by SBRoxMan »

Anyone know what this unfinished sliproad was meant to lead to off the A494? Despite it clearly being a sliproad, I can't see what it could've lead to due to its proximity to the River Dee and how built up the area already is

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2112048 ... 384!8i8192
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Truvelo
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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by Truvelo »

SBRoxMan wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 01:07 Anyone know what this unfinished sliproad was meant to lead to off the A494? Despite it clearly being a sliproad, I can't see what it could've lead to due to its proximity to the River Dee and how built up the area already is

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2112048 ... 384!8i8192
That was for another bridge alongside the existing one.
How would you like your grade separations, Sir?
Big and complex.
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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by M4Simon »

I'm going to cite a 'completed section road' as a visual clue of a road that never happened, namely the Dinant Link Road from the A10 into Hoddesdon, which is a very small part of the otherwise unbuilt North Orbital Road from Hatfield towards Harlow and beyond. roads.org.uk has a good article here: https://www.roads.org.uk/index.php/ring ... bital-road

The link road connects into a half built 3 level roundabout junction with the A10. The link road itself has been modified by the addition of a dumbell roundabout as a development access east of the A10 junction and is now very unlikely to form a connection with a Hertford Southern Bypass if such a scheme ever sees the light of day.

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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by KeithW »

Truvelo wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:09
SBRoxMan wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 01:07 Anyone know what this unfinished sliproad was meant to lead to off the A494? Despite it clearly being a sliproad, I can't see what it could've lead to due to its proximity to the River Dee and how built up the area already is

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2112048 ... 384!8i8192
That was for another bridge alongside the existing one.

Which may come in useful.
https://gov.wales/a494-river-dee-bridge-overview wrote: Project status: considering
Region/county: Flintshire

We, alongside the North and Mid Wales Trunk Road Agent have commissioned Mott MacDonald and their partners Richards, Morehead & Laing to look at options for this Bridge.

Why we are doing it
The A494 existing river bridge is in a poor structural condition and we need to look at options to replace it.

River Dee bridge

Current progress
We have considered:

improving journey time
reducing congestion
pedestrians and cyclists
impact of construction and
environmental impact
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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by Scratchwood »

A slightly different category perhaps, as a small scale road which might be completed, but I was intrigued by this stub road I walked past yesterday on Silver Street in Herts near the M25

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.7031297 ... 384!8i8192

On the other side is a cemetery, so maybe it's part of a new access road, but it's weird to have such a finished stub when the rest of the route has barely started! The google image is from 2018, 3 years later the vegetation has grown back up again and the road is fenced off to stop fly tipping...
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