Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

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someone
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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by someone »

I assume the A414s west-facing slip roads onto a green lane to the east of Hoddesdon would have been paired with the east-facing ones onto the B181 as part of an M11 junction when that was originally planned to go around the west and north of Harlow?

https://goo.gl/maps/urUYz5MmjTWFunuo9
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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

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someone wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 21:41 I assume the A414s west-facing slip roads onto a green lane to the east of Hoddesdon would have been paired with the east-facing ones onto the B181 as part of an M11 junction when that was originally planned to go around the west and north of Harlow?

https://goo.gl/maps/urUYz5MmjTWFunuo9
No, that's more than a mile north west of the M11's original line - there would have been no connection to the motorway there, and in any case the A414 Stanstead Abbots bypass came many years after the M11 had been rerouted east of Harlow. It's just a weird little junction.
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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by DB617 »

Here is one I once frequently passed.

The splayed carriageways here on the A48 were designed to accommodate the slip roads for the Llantrisant Radial in the Buchanan Plan for Cardiff - the first stretch of which probably would have prevented the construction of Gabalfa.
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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by someone »

Chris5156 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 21:56
someone wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 21:41 I assume the A414s west-facing slip roads onto a green lane to the east of Hoddesdon would have been paired with the east-facing ones onto the B181 as part of an M11 junction when that was originally planned to go around the west and north of Harlow?

https://goo.gl/maps/urUYz5MmjTWFunuo9
No, that's more than a mile north west of the M11's original line - there would have been no connection to the motorway there, and in any case the A414 Stanstead Abbots bypass came many years after the M11 had been rerouted east of Harlow. It's just a weird little junction.
It seems to be on a good alignment for a branch from the original M11 route to join the A10 after passing Ware to the east, but as you say the timing rules out anything like that. There must have been a reason for them, though.
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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by M4 Cardiff »

Could the area north east of Hoddesdon / north of Roydon have been earmarked for a major urban expansion / new town type development, that ultimately never happened?
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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

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Chris Bertram wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 13:36 And of course there's the Scratchwood Link, which should have connected M1 at the never-completed J3, to A1 Barnet Way. Hey, is that a golf course that I see directly in the way? Yes, it certainly is!
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5731526 ... a=!3m1!1e3
Or indeed J1 of the M1, where the mainline should have continued over the roundabout...

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6856606 ... a=!3m1!1e3
While the carriageway of the M25 separate here as it (Ringway 3) would have continued straight onwards, south of South Mimms
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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by WHBM »

Here's one I was involved in at Glasgow

https://www.google.com/maps/@55.8520299 ... 384!8i8192

40 years later the intended overall route was built on a (not too different) alignment, so these were wasted.
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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by Phil »

How about a stoking great big cutting dug out for a road but never used.

I give you the A801 in Scotland with what might at first look like a disused railway heading north from the roundabout towards the River Avon. Constructed at the same time as the new build section south towards the M8, the lack of any earthworks on the north side of the river makes it a bit reminiscent of some of the Nazi Autobahns were construction started but were just abandoned in WW2 with only preliminary earthworks done.

https://www.google.com/maps/@55.9365532 ... a=!3m1!1e3
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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by Skipsy »

North end of the Westway Roundabout has these 2 'nubs' which are where the slip roads leading on and off the never built West Cross Route would have been:
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5159872 ... 384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5160381 ... 384!8i8192
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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by RichardA626 »

Chris5156 has documented the missing bits in Warrington New Town, especially along Birch Way which should have had flyovers at most of the roundabouts.
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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by JohnnyMo »

trickstat wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 08:09

Another New Town example is this former roundabout to nowhere in Stevenage:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Steve ... d-0.196612
I find it better where you can find more than one clue such as this short section of dual carriageway which would have linked up with the roundabout.
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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by Chris Bertram »

Truvelo has also detailed the missing roads of Redditch, and his findings are on SABRE Maps so I'll not give any spoilers here.

And let's not forget the list of unbuilt motorways on Pathetic Motorways, some more evident on the ground than others.
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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by Truvelo »

DB617 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 21:59 Here is one I once frequently passed.

The splayed carriageways here on the A48 were designed to accommodate the slip roads for the Llantrisant Radial in the Buchanan Plan for Cardiff - the first stretch of which probably would have prevented the construction of Gabalfa.
Yes, this is how it would have looked.

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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by Bryn666 »

Phil wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 09:39 How about a stoking great big cutting dug out for a road but never used.

I give you the A801 in Scotland with what might at first look like a disused railway heading north from the roundabout towards the River Avon. Constructed at the same time as the new build section south towards the M8, the lack of any earthworks on the north side of the river makes it a bit reminiscent of some of the Nazi Autobahns were construction started but were just abandoned in WW2 with only preliminary earthworks done.

https://www.google.com/maps/@55.9365532 ... a=!3m1!1e3
This one is weird because that cutting looks like the hardest bit so the rest of the road not being linked to the new build south from the M9 is insane.
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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by wrinkly »

Bryn666 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:26
Phil wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 09:39 How about a stoking great big cutting dug out for a road but never used.

I give you the A801 in Scotland with what might at first look like a disused railway heading north from the roundabout towards the River Avon. Constructed at the same time as the new build section south towards the M8, the lack of any earthworks on the north side of the river makes it a bit reminiscent of some of the Nazi Autobahns were construction started but were just abandoned in WW2 with only preliminary earthworks done.

https://www.google.com/maps/@55.9365532 ... a=!3m1!1e3
This one is weird because that cutting looks like the hardest bit so the rest of the road not being linked to the new build south from the M9 is insane.
Surely the missing majorish river bridge is the hardest and most expensive bit.

The likely explanation is that the contractor building the next section to the south needed some extra fill, so took it from the line of the future section. It may even have been part of the client's design.

Similarly when the A74(M) was built southwards from J16, material was taken from the hill to the north where a later section was due to go through.
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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by gepree68 »

Truvelo wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 22:11
DB617 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 21:59 Here is one I once frequently passed.

The splayed carriageways here on the A48 were designed to accommodate the slip roads for the Llantrisant Radial in the Buchanan Plan for Cardiff - the first stretch of which probably would have prevented the construction of Gabalfa.
Yes, this is how it would have looked.
Did we ever work out whether A48 from Gabalfa Interchange then east to A48(M) (M4 J29A) was ever intended to be a motorway?

It has hard shoulders (*), so at the very least could have been a D2M A48(M) all the way from Gabalfa Interchange east to today's A48(M).

(*) apart from a section where the hard shoulders were converted to bus lanes in 200x
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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by Bryn666 »

gepree68 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:03
Truvelo wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 22:11
DB617 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 21:59 Here is one I once frequently passed.

The splayed carriageways here on the A48 were designed to accommodate the slip roads for the Llantrisant Radial in the Buchanan Plan for Cardiff - the first stretch of which probably would have prevented the construction of Gabalfa.
Yes, this is how it would have looked.
Did we ever work out whether A48 from Gabalfa Interchange then east to A48(M) (M4 J29A) was ever intended to be a motorway?

It has hard shoulders (*), so at the very least could have been a D2M A48(M) all the way from Gabalfa Interchange east to today's A48(M).

(*) apart from a section where the hard shoulders were converted to bus lanes in 200x
I doubt it, it's built to the same spec as the A470 which is also all-purpose.
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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by gepree68 »

Bryn666 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:29 I doubt it, it's built to the same spec as the A470 which is also all-purpose.
But A470 has NO hard shoulder (between M4 J32 and Gabalfa).

A48 does have a hard shoulder between Gabalfa and M4 J29A (except for the bit I mentioned that was turned into a bus lane).
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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

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gepree68 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:53
Bryn666 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:29 I doubt it, it's built to the same spec as the A470 which is also all-purpose.
But A470 has NO hard shoulder (between M4 J32 and Gabalfa).

A48 does have a hard shoulder between Gabalfa and M4 J29A (except for the bit I mentioned that was turned into a bus lane).
Northern Avenue isn't a high speed dual carriageway. I was referring to the A470 between Coryton and Pontypridd, which is built to the same spec as the A48 Eastern Avenue. Both roads were designed under the auspices of the former Glamorgan County Council - it is unlikely any of Cardiff and its environs motorway plans were actually motorways, just GSJed dual carriageways in the mould of these two and arguably also the later A4232.
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Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by Big Nick »

Chris5156 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 21:56
someone wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 21:41 I assume the A414s west-facing slip roads onto a green lane to the east of Hoddesdon would have been paired with the east-facing ones onto the B181 as part of an M11 junction when that was originally planned to go around the west and north of Harlow?

https://goo.gl/maps/urUYz5MmjTWFunuo9
No, that's more than a mile north west of the M11's original line - there would have been no connection to the motorway there, and in any case the A414 Stanstead Abbots bypass came many years after the M11 had been rerouted east of Harlow. It's just a weird little junction.
I do know that these slips were used for access to the quarries on either side between Rye Road and Netherfield Lane. It might have been why the slips were built. You could see the big yellow gantries down there when I started driving 20 years ago. The quarries closed some years ago and were allowed to flood for fishing lakes.

If the new super quarry is allowed to go ahead then these slips will be back in use. http://www.stopthequarry.site/
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