Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.

There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).

Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.

Moderator: Site Management Team

User avatar
SBRoxMan
Member
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2021 15:20

Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by SBRoxMan »

Whilst I'm very interested in roads, one topic that has always fascinated me is learning about the roads we could've had if things went differently, such as the M64 or the M50-M42 link motorway. I'm curious about how many visual hints we have today of the roads that were never built, some current examples I know of include:

- The M11's bridge over nothing where the M12 was expected to diverge
- The M53's half-built junction where both carriageways split
- The A5052 at the Liverpool Docks is very wide, clearly using the space intended for the Liverpool Urban Motorway

What examples can you all think of?
User avatar
jgharston
Member
Posts: 2437
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 18:06
Location: Sheffield/Whitby

Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by jgharston »

It's clear that Stanton Way was supposed to continue over the railway line north of Gypsy Lane.
User avatar
Steven
SABRE Maps Coordinator
Posts: 19168
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 20:39
Location: Wolverhampton, Staffordshire
Contact:

Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by Steven »

There's a whole pile of them all over the place - and the best places to start to learn how to spot them are usually New Towns.

For example, there will be roads where only one half of a dual carriageway is completed, and there's a huge verge on one side only, and streetlights down the opposite side, like this one in Telford, where a cycle path has been placed in the land reserved for the other carriageway. There's also its cousin, the kind of half-built dual that meanders from side to side across the reserved line of the route, again, with large verges and over-wide overbridges.

There's oddly sized or placed roundabouts, again suggesting that something else should have happened here. Here's another example from Telford, or this one in Skelmersdale.

Then there's blatantly unfinished junctions, such as this one on the M69. Or you could just look through the M8 Glasgow Inner Ring Road - there's loads of them in that short stretch!
Last edited by Steven on Mon Jun 14, 2021 08:14, edited 3 times in total.
Steven
Motorway Historian

Founder Member, SABRE ex-Presidents' Corner

Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!

User avatar
trickstat
Member
Posts: 8737
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 14:06
Location: Letchworth Gdn City, Herts

Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by trickstat »

Steven wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 07:50 There's a whole pile of them all over the place - and the best places to start to learn how to spot them are usually New Towns.

For example, there will be roads where only one half of a dual carriageway is completed, and there's a huge verge on one side only, and streetlights down the opposite side, like this one in Telford, where a cycle path has been placed in the land reserved for the other carriageway. There's also its cousin, the kind of half-built dual that meanders from side to side across the reserved line of the route, again, with large verges and over-wide overbridges.

There's oddly sized or placed roundabouts, again suggesting that something else should have happened here. Here's another example from Telford, or this one in Skelmersdale.

Then there's blatantly unfinished junctions, such as [url=https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/maps/ind ... archmap=M1 J21&gr=52.59851,-1.20710&map=OSMMap&zoom=16&layer=0]this one on the M69. Or you could just look through the M8 Glasgow Inner Ring Road - there's loads of them in that short stretch!


Another New Town example is this former roundabout to nowhere in Stevenage:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Steve ... d-0.196612
User avatar
M4Simon
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 10121
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2002 22:35
Location: WGC, Herts
Contact:

Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by M4Simon »

trickstat wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 08:09 Another New Town example is this former roundabout to nowhere in Stevenage:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Steve ... d-0.196612
I remember that one being taken out - would have been 20 years ago, I think.

South Way, Hatfield would qualify.

Have a look at the access roads to Stansted's main terminal. There is a roundabout designed for future grade separation, which I doubt will ever be grade separated now.

Simon
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!

Please contact me if you want to know more
User avatar
KeithW
Member
Posts: 19201
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 13:25
Location: Marton-In-Cleveland North Yorks

Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by KeithW »

jgharston wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 04:05 It's clear that Stanton Way was supposed to continue over the railway line north of Gypsy Lane.
Sort of. This is the area I grew up in. Gypsy Lane predates Stainton Way by many years. I the 1960's it was already developed for housing east of the railway line but Stainton Way wasnt even a line on a planners map. In the 1970's there was a plan for a Middlesbrough Eastern Bypass which would have followed the Esk Valley railway line down to the A66, the southern end was actually built here.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.56939 ... authuser=0

Before petering out here.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Gyp ... authuser=0

Stainton Way would have passed SE of Gypsy Lane an plugged in to a link road between the Middlesbrough Eastern Bypass and the A171 to Guisbotough and East Cleveland. The scheme collapsed when Cleveland County Council was abolished and control passed to the unitary authorities of Redcar&East Cleveland and Middlesbrough. Redcar&Cleveland were and remain dead against it and there is now no realistic chance of it being built as they have allowed housing to be built on the land earmarked for the route. Realistically there was no chance of it being built during the economic crisis of the 1970's. The money was just not available from either local or national government.

Another problem which may have been a showstopper is that part of the route would have crossed National Trust property which is inalienable although its possible that a deal may have been doable as it is along the western edge of the NT land of low quality. There was talk of the council ceding land to the NT along the Tees in return for being allowed to build the road.

See
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/tees ... ng-9735957
User avatar
multiraider2
Member
Posts: 3698
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2004 17:42
Location: London, SE

Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by multiraider2 »

Of course the obvious top of the M23 and its numbering

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.2775489 ... a=!3m1!1e3.
User avatar
trickstat
Member
Posts: 8737
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 14:06
Location: Letchworth Gdn City, Herts

Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by trickstat »

M4Simon wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 08:35
trickstat wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 08:09 Another New Town example is this former roundabout to nowhere in Stevenage:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Steve ... d-0.196612
I remember that one being taken out - would have been 20 years ago, I think.
Probably about that. I can remember it still being available for what were effectively u-turns. Occasionally it was used after that for additional parking for the football ground before they expanded the one at the end of the adjacent showground.
User avatar
jervi
Member
Posts: 1596
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 16:29
Location: West Sussex

Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by jervi »

User avatar
SBRoxMan
Member
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2021 15:20

Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by SBRoxMan »

jervi wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:00 https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.84450 ... a=!3m1!1e3 - The A27 at Crossbush
Considering the M27 was meant to end at Chichester, what was the original plan here?
User avatar
Chris Bertram
Member
Posts: 15744
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by Chris Bertram »

There's loads of unfinished business around Birmingham, with odd sections of dualling that just peter out, or turn into S2 + service road, or S2 plus very wide verge. Many of these are associated with the A4040, the former Outer Ring Road, no longer designated as such since the completion of the motorway ring around Birmingham, but still forming a complete circuit of the city. But for another example, I suggest you look at Quinton Road and Quinton Road West. They're both wide and part-dualled, but don't join up, though they clearly point at each other. So what's stopping them from joining up? Harborne Golf Club, that's what. Golf Clubs are very protective of their land, and have an above-average rate of success in preventing development that would affect their courses. So the two roads will be forever separated by the 7th and 14th fairways and will remain minor roads with odd bits of dualling rather than the link road to/from the west that they were clearly intended to be.
“The quality of any advice anybody has to offer has to be judged against the quality of life they actually lead.” - Douglas Adams.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
User avatar
Brenley Corner
Member
Posts: 3853
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 19:28
Location: nr. Canterbury, Kent

Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by Brenley Corner »

SBRoxMan wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:23
jervi wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:00 https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.84450 ... a=!3m1!1e3 - The A27 at Crossbush
Considering the M27 was meant to end at Chichester, what was the original plan here?
It would have been the A27 Arundel Bypass which has been on again and off again ever since that "temporary" layout was built.

Currently it is back on again: https://highwaysengland.co.uk/our-work/ ... el-bypass/

Tony
Brenley Corner: congesting traffic since 1963; discussing roads since 2002
User avatar
jervi
Member
Posts: 1596
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 16:29
Location: West Sussex

Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by jervi »

SBRoxMan wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:23
jervi wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:00 https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.84450 ... a=!3m1!1e3 - The A27 at Crossbush
Considering the M27 was meant to end at Chichester, what was the original plan here?
Crossbush bypass which was built in the 1990s was designed with the Arundel Bypass in mind, in fact an Arundel Bypass was in development while the Crossbush one was being constructed. This is why the GSJ was basically complete with the overbridge and carriageways below. The eastern part of the gyratory was added later (not sure how much later) as a temp embankment to make the gyratory better, although a few years back it had some strengthening works done on it.
https://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/ar ... t_1994.pdf - there are some drawings on the last few pages of this report showing how it was meant to be.
The Arundel Bypass is due to be built sometime in the next few years (although that has been said for the past 30 years) https://highwaysengland.co.uk/our-work/ ... el-bypass/

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37891 - thread on the current bypass scheme

Unfortunately there has never been a plan to extend the M27 beyond Chichester as far as I am aware.
User avatar
Chris Bertram
Member
Posts: 15744
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by Chris Bertram »

SBRoxMan wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:23
jervi wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:00 https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.84450 ... a=!3m1!1e3 - The A27 at Crossbush
Considering the M27 was meant to end at Chichester, what was the original plan here?
Arundel by-pass. Contracts have been let for this, but it will take a few years to build. As ever, the "not one tree" wing of the environmental movement held things up.
“The quality of any advice anybody has to offer has to be judged against the quality of life they actually lead.” - Douglas Adams.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
ABB125
Member
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2020 19:58

Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by ABB125 »

On the M5 to the west of Cheltenham, between junctions 10 and 11, there are what look like slip-road stubs. Was a junction or service area ever planned here? This link should take you to the southern set of stubs - go northwards and you'll soon see the northern pair. https://www.google.com/maps/@51.9104732 ... a=!3m1!1e3
User avatar
Steven
SABRE Maps Coordinator
Posts: 19168
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 20:39
Location: Wolverhampton, Staffordshire
Contact:

Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by Steven »

ABB125 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 13:08 On the M5 to the west of Cheltenham, between junctions 10 and 11, there are what look like slip-road stubs. Was a junction or service area ever planned here? This link should take you to the southern set of stubs - go northwards and you'll soon see the northern pair. https://www.google.com/maps/@51.9104732 ... a=!3m1!1e3
Yep, that's the remains of Staverton services, whilst 12 miles away are Moreton Valence services. There's loads of them dotted around the older parts of the network, although there was a phase in the 1970s of them being completed.

As ever the SABRE Wiki is the place to start.
Steven
Motorway Historian

Founder Member, SABRE ex-Presidents' Corner

Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!


From the SABRE Wiki: Staverton services :


Staverton services is an unbuilt motorway service area on the M5 in Gloucestershire, between junctions 10 and 11.

Although the services were never completed, short stubs of slip roads are visible at the location.

... Read More
xfield
Member
Posts: 183
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:53
Location: Stockport

Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by xfield »

Either end of the M67, at the Denton roundabout the motorway heads up the "ski jump" ready to hit a flyover over the roundabout, but instead just drops back to the roundabout. At Mottram the motorway widens ready to veer off left, instead it continues and joins the roundabout.

M60 at Bredbury, the infamous right-hand join of the slip road anti-clockwise occurs because the slip is supposed to join the end of the A6(M), which then would have merged with the M60. This is why the railway bridge here is so big, it was to make way for the four or six lanes that weren't built.
User avatar
Chris Bertram
Member
Posts: 15744
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by Chris Bertram »

And of course there's the Scratchwood Link, which should have connected M1 at the never-completed J3, to A1 Barnet Way. Hey, is that a golf course that I see directly in the way? Yes, it certainly is!
“The quality of any advice anybody has to offer has to be judged against the quality of life they actually lead.” - Douglas Adams.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
User avatar
vlad
Member
Posts: 2586
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 16:20
Location: Near the northern end of the A34

Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by vlad »

What sort of thing do you want - bearing in mind this thread could last for years? :)

This roundabout in Skem was obviously meant to be a grade-separated dumbbell.
This road is the eastbound offslip off the A511, which should have continued under the bridge just visible.
Some clues are more subtle. St Saviour's Church here was demolished to make way for the Manchester inner ring road, which was never built.
"If you expect nothing from somebody you are never disappointed." - Sylvia Plath
Rambo
Member
Posts: 1056
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 19:56
Contact:

Re: Visual Clues Of Roads That Never Happened

Post by Rambo »

There is one here https://www.google.com/maps/place/Calla ... -2.6168389 a missing arm off the A574 in my home town which is now a footpath but was clearly reserved for something else. Perhaps in the new town plans. We all know the eastern section of the A574 Birchwood way was to continue west using the old railway trackbed which never happened so perhaps these two would have linked somewhere around the A49. Sadly i've never come across any plans to find out where these unbuilt sections would have gone.
Post Reply