Welsh government to suspend all future road-building plans

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jackal
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Welsh government to suspend all future road-building plans

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The Labour-led Welsh government is to freeze new road-building projects as part of its plans to tackle the climate emergency, and an external panel will review all proposed schemes.

...

The announcement means plans for a third Anglesey crossing will be put on hold. However, projects that are under way, such as the Heads of the Valleys road in south Wales, are expected to continue.

The full terms of reference for the review will be published in due course.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ding-plans
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Re: Welsh government to suspend all future road-building plans

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jackal wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 14:12 The Labour-led Welsh government is to freeze new road-building projects as part of its plans to tackle the climate emergency, and an external panel will review all proposed schemes.

...

The announcement means plans for a third Anglesey crossing will be put on hold. However, projects that are under way, such as the Heads of the Valleys road in south Wales, are expected to continue.

The full terms of reference for the review will be published in due course.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ding-plans
Over on Twitter the phrase used was unless there is a safety or connectivity reason, the presumption is no new roads, so the A465 is guaranteed to completed because a S2+1 is dangerous given the volumes using it, whereas the Anglesey New Bridge is probably much more borderline now.

I imagine the A470 being brought up to a decent spec where practical will be the Welsh Government's main road priority for the next 30 years, not much else.
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Re: Welsh government to suspend all future road-building plans

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It will be interesting to see whether Johnson sees this as an opportunity to start bumbling on about UK sponsored/funded schemes in Wales again.
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Re: Welsh government to suspend all future road-building plans

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roadtester wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 14:58 It will be interesting to see whether Johnson sees this as an opportunity to start bumbling on about UK sponsored/funded schemes in Wales again.
I suspect the WG, knowing Johnson keeps acting up about the M4... probably as another 30 mile long tunnel... is why they've declared this policy.
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Re: Welsh government to suspend all future road-building plans

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The money is definitely needed elsewhere if the Metro is to be a functional Metro and not some piddly Bristol-style CNG buses.
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Re: Welsh government to suspend all future road-building plans

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maybe they’d get more people using public transport if they ended the current obscene pricing?
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Re: Welsh government to suspend all future road-building plans

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Roavin wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 19:54 maybe they’d get more people using public transport if they ended the current obscene pricing?
True in every corner of the nation, unfortunately. The current model of for-profit public transport operation is very, very far gone. TfW (and GB Railways, for what it might be worth) need to be given and use the power to restore heavy subsidies to public transport infrastructure. The problem for a very long time has been that the powers that be do not understand the holistic high level principles of a 'public' transport system such as the fact that most nonetheless important routes are doomed to never make a profit but that doesn't make them valueless.

I suspect that a fiendishly difficult part of cost-benefit analysis is estimating how improving, for example, a local commuter rail line's usage by reducing ticket prices might create soft benefits like improved social mobility, reduced unemployment, reduced environmental damage and congestion from people leaving their cars. And, since civil servants and politicians alike have an unhealthy attraction to easy to understand facts and figures, the car just continues to win while the train in particular has the knife pushed further in at every inevitable yearly price hike.
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Re: Welsh government to suspend all future road-building plans

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To stop road building for global climate issues is just plan stupid.
Wales's road transport probably accounts for less than 0.01% of Global emissions, failure to build better newer roads will see a very small reduction in journeys over the next 20-30 years, and in 15-20 years time the majority of vehicles on the road will be electric anyway.
So what impact will this have to the global climate? I guess negligible, if not making it worse. What is the impact to Wales and to extent the UK? Pretty hefty economical impact, avoidable deaths and much of the road construction industry out of jobs (clap clap labour).
So I see it as Wales shooting themselves in the feet for no good reason. However I do hope the money they don't spend on road infrastructure will be spent on other infrastructure such as renewable power generation.
Also I guess you do need Labour to make a big doodoo which will make people vote right, and then the conservatives will then fix the issues.
*Rant over*
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Re: Welsh government to suspend all future road-building plans

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jervi wrote:To stop road building for global climate issues is just plan stupid.
Wales's road transport probably accounts for less than 0.01% of Global emissions, failure to build better newer roads will see a very small reduction in journeys over the next 20-30 years, and in 15-20 years time the majority of vehicles on the road will be electric anyway.
So what impact will this have to the global climate? I guess negligible, if not making it worse. What is the impact to Wales and to extent the UK? Pretty hefty economical impact, avoidable deaths and much of the road construction industry out of jobs (clap clap labour).
So I see it as Wales shooting themselves in the feet for no good reason. However I do hope the money they don't spend on road infrastructure will be spent on other infrastructure such as renewable power generation.
Also I guess you do need Labour to make a big doodoo which will make people vote right, and then the conservatives will then fix the issues.
*Rant over*
Indeed. Most of the life of road schemes in planning now will see a majority electric vehicle usage.

All the same all cars even electric are inefficient transport modes. But as ever alternatives need to be available and convenient. Just cancelling roads and walking away isn't the answer either.
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Re: Welsh government to suspend all future road-building plans

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Mark Hewitt wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 21:09
jervi wrote:To stop road building for global climate issues is just plan stupid.
Wales's road transport probably accounts for less than 0.01% of Global emissions, failure to build better newer roads will see a very small reduction in journeys over the next 20-30 years, and in 15-20 years time the majority of vehicles on the road will be electric anyway.
So what impact will this have to the global climate? I guess negligible, if not making it worse. What is the impact to Wales and to extent the UK? Pretty hefty economical impact, avoidable deaths and much of the road construction industry out of jobs (clap clap labour).
So I see it as Wales shooting themselves in the feet for no good reason. However I do hope the money they don't spend on road infrastructure will be spent on other infrastructure such as renewable power generation.
Also I guess you do need Labour to make a big doodoo which will make people vote right, and then the conservatives will then fix the issues.
*Rant over*
Indeed. Most of the life of road schemes in planning now will see a majority electric vehicle usage.

All the same all cars even electric are inefficient transport modes. But as ever alternatives need to be available and convenient. Just cancelling roads and walking away isn't the answer either.
In all fairness, I don't think that is the intention, but most in North Wales may argue that they will lose out on balance. As I alluded to above, the funds for the SW Metro have to come from somewhere and the plans have always been really ambitious.

On second thoughts I am also very glad that Traffic Wales were able to get the A40 past Llandewi Velfrey before this happened, as no amount of trains is going to alleviate holiday traffic to Pembrokeshire and HGVs to Fishguard. I wonder how many other straightening and improvement schemes will sneak through, as this whole thing seems to be aimed at killing off major newbuilds like the M4 even further.
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Re: Welsh government to suspend all future road-building plans

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This isn't exactly a surprise following Labour's very strong showing at the recent Senedd elections, as historically roads projects outside Labour's heartlands have always been part of coalition or budget passing agreements between Labour and Plaid Cymru or the Lib Dems. Fortunately most of our local projects (Dyfi Bridge replacement, A494 rebuild at Llanycil) are already underway so should be finished off.
Mark Hewitt wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 21:09 Indeed. Most of the life of road schemes in planning now will see a majority electric vehicle usage.

All the same all cars even electric are inefficient transport modes. But as ever alternatives need to be available and convenient. Just cancelling roads and walking away isn't the answer either.
The issue is that areas outside of the M4/A465/A55 corridors have such low population density as to make public transport a very expensive proposition. That said sorting out the Cardiff/South Wales metro will help issues there, its not really workable to apply the same concepts to areas like Powys and Gwynedd.
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Re: Welsh government to suspend all future road-building plans

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rhyds wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:59 The issue is that areas outside of the M4/A465/A55 corridors have such low population density as to make public transport a very expensive proposition. That said sorting out the Cardiff/South Wales metro will help issues there, its not really workable to apply the same concepts to areas like Powys and Gwynedd.
It's not just the expense but the massive journey times where you have to change between multiple buses or trains. Take a look at the Metro map:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... _Metro.png

There's only really two or three stops in Newport, so you're very likely to have a local bus ride on the end of your 'metro' journey (which itself quite likely has a change or two). Not to mention you probably have a significant walk at one end or the other. And that's Newport - best of luck in the Valleys.

Bridgend to Chepstow is forty miles, much wider than Greater London for instance. It's heavily populated by Welsh standards but nowhere near the density where public transport provision could make significant inroads to car use. You would need >£100bn to build a network that was dense enough to really make a difference, which is not credible at all.

I'm all in favour of the Metro but it's laughable to imagine it could replace the road network, especially the strategic road network. And this doctrinaire approach is even more comical in Mid and North Wales - or would be if it didn't make commuting a misery and drag down industry and tourism.

The reality of it is that, much as I agree with them on many other things, Labour have never really got their heads around transport in the UK, not since the 70s at least. They look at everything from a London-centric perspective, where the public transport network is largely already there and is a viable option for the majority (at least in Inner London). That leaves them unwilling to seriously invest either in roads or public transport, so they just end up cancelling and dilly dallying while uttering soothing mantras about the environment.
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Re: Welsh government to suspend all future road-building plans

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My main issue with the Welsh policy is the lack of joined up thinking. Why build new noddy box low density suburbs on green belts like in Creigiau and put on some token bus routes while also insisting that car use needs to be reduced? If there is to be any serious change in the way people travel, there needs to be change in the way people live. That means increased density and real transit oriented development. The UK (and US) are uniquely terrible at creating places where people can live and work without having to go out of their way.
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Re: Welsh government to suspend all future road-building plans

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rhyds wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:59
The issue is that areas outside of the M4/A465/A55 corridors have such low population density as to make public transport a very expensive proposition. That said sorting out the Cardiff/South Wales metro will help issues there, its not really workable to apply the same concepts to areas like Powys and Gwynedd.
Then it's also probably hard to justify building roads, it suggests that the existing ones should be able to handle the traffic.
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Re: Welsh government to suspend all future road-building plans

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DB617 wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 13:35The UK (and US) are uniquely terrible at creating places where people can live and work without having to go out of their way.
Have you been to, say, Canada, Australia, South Africa, the Middle East? It's a global issue.
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Re: Welsh government to suspend all future road-building plans

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Helvellyn wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 14:01
rhyds wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:59
The issue is that areas outside of the M4/A465/A55 corridors have such low population density as to make public transport a very expensive proposition. That said sorting out the Cardiff/South Wales metro will help issues there, its not really workable to apply the same concepts to areas like Powys and Gwynedd.
Then it's also probably hard to justify building roads, it suggests that the existing ones should be able to handle the traffic.
Most of the upgrades in the area have been sorting pinch points in specific towns such as Porthmadog and Newtown, where a bypass really makes a difference to the town and the trunk road that previously went through it.
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Re: Welsh government to suspend all future road-building plans

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You do have to wonder if further improvements to the existing north south network would actually reduce pollution, given that to get from Newport or Cadrdiff to Holyhead, Llandudno, or Conway is faster to travel via England than it is to crawl the 194 miles in a shade under five hours taking the direct route through Wales itself....
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Re: Welsh government to suspend all future road-building plans

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c2R wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 15:32 You do have to wonder if further improvements to the existing north south network would actually reduce pollution, given that to get from Newport or Cadrdiff to Holyhead, Llandudno, or Conway is faster to travel via England than it is to crawl the 194 miles in a shade under five hours taking the direct route through Wales itself....
Not really, as there is next to no traffic from north to south in Wales. The enormous majority of improvements have been on east-west routes for a reason
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Re: Welsh government to suspend all future road-building plans

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Herned wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 15:50
c2R wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 15:32 You do have to wonder if further improvements to the existing north south network would actually reduce pollution, given that to get from Newport or Cadrdiff to Holyhead, Llandudno, or Conway is faster to travel via England than it is to crawl the 194 miles in a shade under five hours taking the direct route through Wales itself....
Not really, as there is next to no traffic from north to south in Wales. The enormous majority of improvements have been on east-west routes for a reason
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Re: Welsh government to suspend all future road-building plans

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Herned wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 15:50
c2R wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 15:32 You do have to wonder if further improvements to the existing north south network would actually reduce pollution, given that to get from Newport or Cadrdiff to Holyhead, Llandudno, or Conway is faster to travel via England than it is to crawl the 194 miles in a shade under five hours taking the direct route through Wales itself....
Not really, as there is next to no traffic from north to south in Wales. The enormous majority of improvements have been on east-west routes for a reason
It doesn't seem that way when I get off the boat at Holyhead needing to get to Cardiff or Swansea! I'm generally stuck behind freight trying to move around..... and yes I know that Fishguard would be a better bet, but the times of the boats to Pembroke or Fishguard don't always suit...
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