All Lane Running upgrades: Statutory Instrument consultation (ending the use of Dynamic Hard Shoulders)

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jackal
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All Lane Running upgrades: Statutory Instrument consultation (ending the use of Dynamic Hard Shoulders)

Post by jackal »

There is a live consultation on converting all existing dynamic hard shoulder schemes to all lane running. Upgrades are planned as follows:

M62 Junction 25-30 2022-23
M6 Junction 4-5 2022-23
M1 Junction 10-13 2023-24
M4/M5 Interchange 2023-24
M6 Junction 5-8 2024-25
M6 Junction 8-10a 2024-25
M42 Junction 3a-7 2024-25

These benefits are listed:

 making the road layout simpler and easier to understand, helping to improve safety by
giving drivers more confidence in their journeys.
 supporting a 70mph maximum speed limit in lane 1 rather than 60mph.
 reducing the time to detect a stopped vehicle on a live carriageway using the new
Stopped Vehicle Detection technology giving drivers more confidence and
reassurance.

https://highwaysengland.citizenspace.co ... sultation/
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Gav
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Re: All Lane Running upgrades: Statutory Instrument consultation (ending the use of Dynamic Hard Shoulders)

Post by Gav »

a shame indeed.

improvement on the dynamic hardshoulder but at the expense of losing the hard shoulder.

they need to rethink - need to look at putting in many more refuge bays to make up for the loss of the hard shoulder.
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Re: All Lane Running upgrades: Statutory Instrument consultation (ending the use of Dynamic Hard Shoulders)

Post by DB617 »

Looking forward to some incredibly cumbersome traffic management and dark red lines in all direction when they harden the shoulder at Almondsbury... Luckily I usually work in the southeast of the city.
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Re: All Lane Running upgrades: Statutory Instrument consultation (ending the use of Dynamic Hard Shoulders)

Post by Chris5156 »

jackal wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:11 There is a live consultation on converting all existing dynamic hard shoulder schemes to all lane running. Upgrades are planned as follows:

M62 Junction 25-30 2022-23
M6 Junction 4-5 2022-23
M1 Junction 10-13 2023-24
M4/M5 Interchange 2023-24
M6 Junction 5-8 2024-25
M6 Junction 8-10a 2024-25
M42 Junction 3a-7 2024-25
And about time too. The sooner DHSR is binned, and we have hard shoulders that are only hard shoulders, and running lanes that are only running lanes, the better.
Gav wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:39they need to rethink - need to look at putting in many more refuge bays to make up for the loss of the hard shoulder.
Installation of additional refuge areas is happening on several Smart Motorways as part of the stocktake that reported last year, and more are planned. There's funding set aside for this work.
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Re: All Lane Running upgrades: Statutory Instrument consultation (ending the use of Dynamic Hard Shoulders)

Post by Bryn666 »

M62 Junction 25-30 2022-23 - this one will be easy, and 25-26 has been ALR since day 1 so not like there's no precedent here.

M6 Junction 4-5 2022-23 - easy.

M1 Junction 10-13 2023-24 - M1 J10-13 is a major problem being DHSR between two sections of D4 either ALR or conventional D4M, this should have been resolved years ago so good.

M4/M5 Interchange 2023-24 - this is a complete disaster at the moment so solving this is overdue.

M6 Junction 5-8 2024-25 - the viaducts are going to be a nightmare to provide any kind of ERAs along, indeed the only two between 5 and 6 are conveniently placed where a railway line passes under at a skew at Bromford. This is going to be a frequent trouble site with stopped vehicles causing mayhem, be intrigued how they're going to manage this one.

M6 Junction 8-10a 2024-25 - same issues as 5-8

M42 Junction 3a-7 2024-25 - easy, and they'll have had 19 years out of this one so not too bad a hit rate I guess. That's quite a scary thought that it's nearly two decades since ATM was first introduced...
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Re: All Lane Running upgrades: Statutory Instrument consultation (ending the use of Dynamic Hard Shoulders)

Post by Chris5156 »

Bryn666 wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:59M1 Junction 10-13 2023-24 - M1 J10-13 is a major problem being DHSR between two sections of D4 either ALR or conventional D4M, this should have been resolved years ago so good.
Bit of a shame this scheme won’t start sooner, because it’s arguably one of the most urgent to convert to ALR on safety grounds, but I guess the timing is about phasing the work to start after the J13-16 ALR scheme finishes.
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Re: All Lane Running upgrades: Statutory Instrument consultation (ending the use of Dynamic Hard Shoulders)

Post by Bryn666 »

Chris5156 wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 13:40
Bryn666 wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:59M1 Junction 10-13 2023-24 - M1 J10-13 is a major problem being DHSR between two sections of D4 either ALR or conventional D4M, this should have been resolved years ago so good.
Bit of a shame this scheme won’t start sooner, because it’s arguably one of the most urgent to convert to ALR on safety grounds, but I guess the timing is about phasing the work to start after the J13-16 ALR scheme finishes.
Yes, most likely, but as you say this should be an accelerated scheme ideally.
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Re: All Lane Running upgrades: Statutory Instrument consultation (ending the use of Dynamic Hard Shoulders)

Post by Herned »

DB617 wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:57 Looking forward to some incredibly cumbersome traffic management and dark red lines in all direction when they harden the shoulder at Almondsbury... Luckily I usually work in the southeast of the city.
Didn't they do that when the dynamic hard shoulder running was put in? They spent ages digging it up, or at least appearing to
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Re: All Lane Running upgrades: Statutory Instrument consultation (ending the use of Dynamic Hard Shoulders)

Post by jervi »

I'll be glad to see the back of the DHSR SMs and these upgrades being compliant to the newest ALR standards.

By the looks of it, those years are the completion year (April-March), not start of construction. DHSR -> ALR entails nearly as much work as Conventional -> ALR, so can't see these schemes being much quicker. The M23 ALR scheme which is 11 miles took nearly 2 years to complete, so the 15 mile M1 DHSR -> ALR scheme may take roughly the same time period (hopefully less though), which would mean it would start construction between April 2021 & March 2022 - so that's pretty imminent.

Also someone needs to tell whoever produced this consultation document that M1 J10a is not a thing no more - it appears on the illustration map.
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Re: All Lane Running upgrades: Statutory Instrument consultation (ending the use of Dynamic Hard Shoulders)

Post by jackal »

The DHSR sections mostly have quite generous provision of ERAs, as spacing guidance was more stringent in those days. The M6 viaduct sections are an exception for obvious reasons. I'm not convinced there will be much ERA work with the conversion schemes.

The existing ALR sections need more attention in that respect. Some of the newly designed ALR schemes are quite inadequate, e.g.: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=42057&p=1170553
jervi wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 15:16 By the looks of it, those years are the completion year (April-March), not start of construction. DHSR -> ALR entails nearly as much work as Conventional -> ALR, so can't see these schemes being much quicker. The M23 ALR scheme which is 11 miles took nearly 2 years to complete, so the 15 mile M1 DHSR -> ALR scheme may take roughly the same time period (hopefully less though), which would mean it would start construction between April 2021 & March 2022 - so that's pretty imminent.
The M23 was not a conversion from DHSR so they did a full job including rebuilding the hard shoulders, earthworks etc (in fact they probably did more than necessary but that's a different story). Much less is needed for DHSR>ALR.
Last edited by jackal on Mon Aug 16, 2021 15:49, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: All Lane Running upgrades: Statutory Instrument consultation (ending the use of Dynamic Hard Shoulders)

Post by DB617 »

Herned wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 15:04
DB617 wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:57 Looking forward to some incredibly cumbersome traffic management and dark red lines in all direction when they harden the shoulder at Almondsbury... Luckily I usually work in the southeast of the city.
Didn't they do that when the dynamic hard shoulder running was put in? They spent ages digging it up, or at least appearing to
As evident above I'm not sure, but someone with more insight into that particular HE Area might have the answer. Though I wouldn't be surprised if the work was mainly to do with installing ERAs and the unbelievable amount of VRS that hems in drivers on all smart motorways.

Anecdotally from my own experience it seems like the hard shoulders are pretty wide, at least. It never feels too tight when dashing down between the M32 and M5 in the 'only for jct' section.
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Re: All Lane Running upgrades: Statutory Instrument consultation (ending the use of Dynamic Hard Shoulders)

Post by brummie_rob »

It would be beneficial for the M6 scheme to look at J8 to improve the merge from NB M5. Maybe the ALR will help the merge be more free flow but then will they have through lanes at J9 or leave it as it is currently?
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Re: All Lane Running upgrades: Statutory Instrument consultation (ending the use of Dynamic Hard Shoulders)

Post by Steven »

brummie_rob wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 22:35 It would be beneficial for the M6 scheme to look at J8 to improve the merge from NB M5. Maybe the ALR will help the merge be more free flow but then will they have through lanes at J9 or leave it as it is currently?
There isn't space to do anything with J9 without serious work on the viaducts - the merge spaces are utterly tiny as it is, so ALR through it is just a non-starter without closing the junction, or accepting high accident rates.
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Re: All Lane Running upgrades: Statutory Instrument consultation (ending the use of Dynamic Hard Shoulders)

Post by Gav »

Yup J9

the proverbial fly in the ointment - although the slips from the M5 join the M6 and its not on viaducts right after the merge - would be room to increase the road space to add in lanes. but that j 9 how would that be solved - a bit of braiding ?
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Re: All Lane Running upgrades: Statutory Instrument consultation (ending the use of Dynamic Hard Shoulders)

Post by brummie_rob »

Steven wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 07:13
brummie_rob wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 22:35 It would be beneficial for the M6 scheme to look at J8 to improve the merge from NB M5. Maybe the ALR will help the merge be more free flow but then will they have through lanes at J9 or leave it as it is currently?
There isn't space to do anything with J9 without serious work on the viaducts - the merge spaces are utterly tiny as it is, so ALR through it is just a non-starter without closing the junction, or accepting high accident rates.
Selfishly, I'd say just close the junction or make it limited access by closing the NB exit and SB entry slips. That'd keep some local traffic off but of course there are loads of distribution centres such as Lidl right off the junction now.
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Re: All Lane Running upgrades: Statutory Instrument consultation (ending the use of Dynamic Hard Shoulders)

Post by Truvelo »

brummie_rob wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:48
Steven wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 07:13
brummie_rob wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 22:35 It would be beneficial for the M6 scheme to look at J8 to improve the merge from NB M5. Maybe the ALR will help the merge be more free flow but then will they have through lanes at J9 or leave it as it is currently?
There isn't space to do anything with J9 without serious work on the viaducts - the merge spaces are utterly tiny as it is, so ALR through it is just a non-starter without closing the junction, or accepting high accident rates.
Selfishly, I'd say just close the junction or make it limited access by closing the NB exit and SB entry slips. That'd keep some local traffic off but of course there are loads of distribution centres such as Lidl right off the junction now.
I've been playing with this junction for years and the only workable solution I've come up with other than to close the south facing J9 slips is to extend the NB exit slip so traffic leaves for J9 before the M5/M6 merge. Land is a available and requires a slight diversion of the river. Southbound is more tricky as there are buildings close to the M6 and congestion is never as bad as northbound.

Cost is going to be the main issue and this will mean it will never be done so five lanes into three it will have to remain.
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Re: All Lane Running upgrades: Statutory Instrument consultation (ending the use of Dynamic Hard Shoulders)

Post by Steven »

brummie_rob wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:48
Steven wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 07:13
brummie_rob wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 22:35 It would be beneficial for the M6 scheme to look at J8 to improve the merge from NB M5. Maybe the ALR will help the merge be more free flow but then will they have through lanes at J9 or leave it as it is currently?
There isn't space to do anything with J9 without serious work on the viaducts - the merge spaces are utterly tiny as it is, so ALR through it is just a non-starter without closing the junction, or accepting high accident rates.
Selfishly, I'd say just close the junction or make it limited access by closing the NB exit and SB entry slips. That'd keep some local traffic off but of course there are loads of distribution centres such as Lidl right off the junction now.
I'm not entirely sure that Wednesbury IKEA would be terribly impressed at the suggestion! :laugh:
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Re: All Lane Running upgrades: Statutory Instrument consultation (ending the use of Dynamic Hard Shoulders)

Post by jackal »

Here's my suggestion for M6 J7-9:

M5 M6 - Copy.jpg

C/D lanes connect J7 to J8 and J8 to J9. J7 and J9 can only directly access the M5. However, you also have a new pair of slip roads connecting the two branches of the M5, with the right turn going under the viaducts at Ray Hall. This allows J7 and J9 to access the M6 via the M5 branches.

It's a bit of a BOGOF as you deal with the J7-8 issues as well as J8-9. Effectively you have a fully grade separated bypass for local traffic between J7 and J9. The only slips on the M6 would be to/from the M5, removing all weaving issues. Local movements are relocated to the M5 branches, which can better cope with them, and as they have hard shoulders they could be ALRed if necessary.
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Re: All Lane Running upgrades: Statutory Instrument consultation (ending the use of Dynamic Hard Shoulders)

Post by ABB125 »

jackal wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 13:44 Here's my suggestion for M6 J7-9:


M5 M6 - Copy.jpg


C/D lanes connect J7 to J8 and J8 to J9. J7 and J9 can only directly access the M5. However, you also have a new pair of slip roads connecting the two branches of the M5, with the right turn going under the viaducts at Ray Hall. This allows J7 and J9 to access the M6 via the M5 branches.

It's a bit of a BOGOF as you deal with the J7-8 issues as well as J8-9. Effectively you have a fully grade separated bypass for local traffic between J7 and J9. The only slips on the M6 would be to/from the M5, removing all weaving issues. Local movements are relocated to the M5 branches, which can better cope with them, and as they have hard shoulders they could be ALRed if necessary.
I like that, it's very innovative. So of course it'll never happen!
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Re: All Lane Running upgrades: Statutory Instrument consultation (ending the use of Dynamic Hard Shoulders)

Post by Stevie D »

Excellent news, and long overdue. It has long been apparent that DHSR was just a recipe for disaster, by introducing confusion among drivers and creating ambiguous road layouts.
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