£40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

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Paul7755
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

Post by Paul7755 »

Debaser wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 19:03
Paul7755 wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 16:38 PS, does anyone know what PCF stands for in this context?
jackal wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 17:40 Project Control Framework. Basically the stages a scheme goes through, from a glimmer in a minister's eye to actual infrastructure.
Essentially, Stage 3 is preliminary design and Stage 5 is detailed design (although its officially called 'construction preparation'). Stage 6 is actual shovels in the ground construction.

https://assets.highwaysengland.co.uk/ro ... +2018_.pdf
Thanks for that, it sounds very like the railway GRIP stages, their stage 6 is also shovels in the ground.
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Tinpusher
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

Post by Tinpusher »

From experience. GRIP was a laborious process that people, who lacked the ability to think outside of the box, would stick to religiously. It slowed things down because you couldn't work iteratively or concurrently in the eyes of the control freaks.

It's been replaced with PACE. Standard is NR/L2/P3M/20, known as Project Acceleration in a Controlled Environment (PACE). Much more able to JFDI (just f**king do it) with PACE. Well, that's the theory anyway.
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RichardA35
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

Post by RichardA35 »

Tinpusher wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:06 From experience. GRIP was a laborious process that people, who lacked the ability to think outside of the box, would stick to religiously. It slowed things down because you couldn't work iteratively or concurrently in the eyes of the control freaks.

It's been replaced with PACE. Standard is NR/L2/P3M/20, known as Project Acceleration in a Controlled Environment (PACE). Much more able to JFDI (just f**king do it) with PACE. Well, that's the theory anyway.
Who mentioned the railways? PCF has been HE's way of doing things for a long time now whereas GRIP (Governance for Railway Investment Projects) was Network Rail's (the clue is in the definition of "R")
WHBM
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

Post by WHBM »

RichardA35 wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 13:50Who mentioned the railways? PCF has been HE's way of doing things for a long time now whereas GRIP (Governance for Railway Investment Projects) was Network Rail's (the clue is in the definition of "R")
Well sure. But both are about managing DfT's investment programmes, and both will be overseen and ultimately authorised by them.

One really would have thought that the DfT would have come up with a sensible approach by now for public funds investment in transport infrastructure (road, rail, air, active travel, etc). They've had long enough to do it, and honestly the parameters are not rocket science. Some of us were doing this stuff at university forty years or ... um ... err ... longer than that ago :)
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jackal
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

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I've prepared a simplified list from the DfT data that excludes complete, under construction or dubious (e.g., £443m Tilbury access) schemes, and with the Lower Thames Crossing contracts combined:

Scheme Value Of New Contract
1 Lower Thames Crossing £4,360,000,000
2 A1 Doncaster to Darrington £1,159,000,000
3 A66 Northern Trans-Pennine Project: Construction Contract- Design and Build Packages £773,000,000
4 A5 Hinkley to Tamworth £724,000,000
5 A120 Braintree to A12 £513,000,000
6 A27 Chichester £443,000,000
7 Package B18 - A46 Newark Northern Bypass £436,000,000
8 M1/M62 Lofthouse Junction £435,000,000
9 A2 Dover Access £427,000,000
10 Package B16 - A19 New Tees Crossing - Standalone £396,000,000
11 Package B11 - A5036 Princes Way - Access to Port of Liverpool £315,008,259
12 A12/A14 Copdock Interchange £293,000,000
13 M62 Junctions 20 to 25 Upgrade (Various contracts TBC) £283,200,000
14 A64 Hopgrove £250,000,000
15 Package B15 - A417 Missing Link at Air Balloon £238,511,565
16 M1 Leicseter Western Access £234,000,000
17 A27 Lewes to Polegate £227,000,000
18 A19 Junctions North of Newcastle £200,000,000
19 Manchester Northwest Quadrant – Technical Partner £150,000,000
20 A2 Brenley Corner £127,000,000
21 M1 Leeds Eastern Gateway £115,000,000
22 Package A3 - M3 JP Improvement £113,924,048
23 A404 Bisham Junction £100,000,000
24 A483 Pant-Llanymynech £93,000,000
25 A404/M40 Junction 4 High Wycombe £89,000,000
26 M6 Junction 22 £86,000,000
27 M60 South East Junctions Improvements £83,000,000
28 A11 Fiveways Junction £73,000,000
29 A38 Trerulefoot to Carkeel Safety Package £64,000,000
30 M6 Junction 15 Potteries Southern Access £48,000,000
31 Severn Resilience Package £41,000,000
32 M62 J25-30 Dynamic Hard Shoulder PCF Stages 4-7 Lot 3 £37,377,522
33 A47/A1101 Elm Road Junction £34,000,000
34 M27 Southmapton Access £34,000,000
35 M11 Junction 13 Cambridge West £31,000,000
36 M6 J4-5 Dynamic Hard Shoulder PCF Stages 4-7 Lot 3 £29,959,309
37 A3/A247 Ripley South £20,000,000
TOTAL £13,105,980,703

There is an "A303 Amesbury to Berwick Down - Mainworks" contract valued at only £125,000,000, which is an order of magnitude out from publicized costs, so I've excluded it.

The DfT list is far from complete, with many committed RIS2 schemes not listed:

A1 Morpeth to Ellingham
Mottram Moor Link Road and A57 link road
A38 Derby Junctions
M54 to M6 link road
M42 junctions 4 to 7 upgrade dynamic hard shoulder running to all lane running
M6 junction 5 to 8 upgrade dynamic hard shoulder running to all lane running
M6 junctions 8 to 10a upgrade dynamic hard shoulder running to all lane running
A47 Wansford to Sutton
A47 Great Yarmouth junctions
A47 Guyhirn junction
A47 north Tuddenham to Easton
A47 Thickthorn junction
A47 Blofield to north Burlingham
A428 Black Cat to Caxton Gibbet
M1 junctions 10 to 13 upgrade dynamic hard shoulder running to all lane running
M25 junction 28
M25 junctions 10 to 16
M25 junction 10
A27 Arundel bypass
A27 Worthing and Lancing improvements
M2 junction 5
A303 Sparkford to Ilchester
A358 Taunton to Southfields
M4 junctions 19 to 20 and M5 junctions 16 to 17 upgrade dynamic hard shoulder running to all lane running

Taking those two lists together it's quite noticeable how few new smart motorway schemes there are (i.e., if we exclude the relatively small DHS to ALR schemes). Nor is there any motorway widening, and only one scheme that might realistically involve new motorway. Going forward the programme is overwhelmingly improvements to junctions and A roads.
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

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A66 Northern Trans-Pennine Project: Construction Contract- Design and Build Packages £773,000,000!

I thought there were only 4 relativly short sections of dual carriageway to go & it was complete.

Maybe I picked the wrong career.
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danfw194
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

Post by danfw194 »

Took a quick glance at the list and was immediately drawn to the bottom and £2m for the Newark Bypass, felt like typing a rant but thankfully had a second look to see it also sitting further up the list with £436m.
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KeithW
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

Post by KeithW »

IanRB wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 16:23 A66 Northern Trans-Pennine Project: Construction Contract- Design and Build Packages £773,000,000!

I thought there were only 4 relativly short sections of dual carriageway to go & it was complete.

Maybe I picked the wrong career.
There is some pretty major work there including seven S2 sections being upgraded
https://highwaysengland.citizenspace.co ... s-pennine/
Herned
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

Post by Herned »

jackal wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 16:16 I've prepared a simplified list from the DfT data that excludes complete, under construction or dubious (e.g., £443m Tilbury access) schemes, and with the Lower Thames Crossing contracts combined: ....
Is there anything more about the A5 Hinckley to Tamworth - seems like enough money for full dualling so a major scheme but there doesn't seem to be much online.

Some of the ones you have listed as not included in the DfT list have already been contracted, so presumably that is why they aren't included
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jackal
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

Post by jackal »

Herned wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 16:51
jackal wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 16:16 I've prepared a simplified list from the DfT data that excludes complete, under construction or dubious (e.g., £443m Tilbury access) schemes, and with the Lower Thames Crossing contracts combined: ....
Is there anything more about the A5 Hinckley to Tamworth - seems like enough money for full dualling so a major scheme but there doesn't seem to be much online.
A few bits and pieces here:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=42743&p=1197739
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

Post by thatapanydude »

jackal wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 16:16 2 A1 Doncaster to Darrington £1,159,000,000
To be honest I would be a bit worried with that figure. Is £1.15bn enough for a D3(M) motorway with HS plus a free flow link for the M18 to A1(M) north and west? Anything short of this spec I would say is unacceptable.
A1/A1(M) >>> M1
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

Post by NICK 647063 »

IanRB wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 16:23 A66 Northern Trans-Pennine Project: Construction Contract- Design and Build Packages £773,000,000!

I thought there were only 4 relativly short sections of dual carriageway to go & it was complete.

Maybe I picked the wrong career.

It’s 6 separate sections being built to a higher standard than the last dualling including GSJ’s it was always described as a £1bn A66 upgrade so a bit cheaper…..
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

Post by NICK 647063 »

thatapanydude wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 17:54
jackal wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 16:16 2 A1 Doncaster to Darrington £1,159,000,000
To be honest I would be a bit worried with that figure. Is £1.15bn enough for a D3(M) motorway with HS plus a free flow link for the M18 to A1(M) north and west? Anything short of this spec I would say is unacceptable.
Do you not get the feeling it will be built the same as the A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon? Except it will be motorway, basically an ALR smart motorway, I can’t imagine them building a hard shoulder when they are converting most other motorways….
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

Post by Rillington »

Glenn A wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:35 Two good pieces of news, the A66 upgrade and the A1(M) from Darrington to Red House, two roads in the North that desperately need improvement. Last time I used the A66 from Scotch Corner to Penrith, I was stuck behind a tractor for 6 miles on the S2 section in North Yorkshire, then the road was at a standstill for 20 minutes on the S2 section near Center Parcs. Turning the A1 into a D3M from Darrington to Red House will improve this road, and replacing the elderly Doncaster by pass with a new motorway, will slash journey times north of Doncaster.
Agreed on both.

the A66 needs to be dualled fully between Penrith and Scotch Corner and the Darringto to Red house section really does need to become a motorway - it should have been done when the rest of the A1M north of Darrington was built.
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

Post by Rillington »

Good to see A64 Hop Grove listed. Therefore what will we get for the £250 million?
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KeithW
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

Post by KeithW »

NICK 647063 wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 18:58 Do you not get the feeling it will be built the same as the A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon? Except it will be motorway, basically an ALR smart motorway, I can’t imagine them building a hard shoulder when they are converting most other motorways….
Given that the rest of the A1(M) from Darrington to Scotch Corner is D3(M) they just might do it anyway.
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

Post by IanRB »

NICK 647063 wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 18:51
IanRB wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 16:23 A66 Northern Trans-Pennine Project: Construction Contract- Design and Build Packages £773,000,000!

I thought there were only 4 relativly short sections of dual carriageway to go & it was complete.

Maybe I picked the wrong career.

It’s 6 separate sections being built to a higher standard than the last dualling including GSJ’s it was always described as a £1bn A66 upgrade so a bit cheaper…..
I thought the underpass at Penrith had been dropped, but it's still in there, so I suspect that will soak up a good bit of the £773 Million.
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

Post by jackal »

Rillington wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 19:12 Good to see A64 Hop Grove listed. Therefore what will we get for the £250 million?
NICK 647063 wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 18:51
IanRB wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 16:23 A66 Northern Trans-Pennine Project: Construction Contract- Design and Build Packages £773,000,000!

I thought there were only 4 relativly short sections of dual carriageway to go & it was complete.

Maybe I picked the wrong career.

It’s 6 separate sections being built to a higher standard than the last dualling including GSJ’s it was always described as a £1bn A66 upgrade so a bit cheaper…..
thatapanydude wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 17:54
jackal wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 16:16 2 A1 Doncaster to Darrington £1,159,000,000
To be honest I would be a bit worried with that figure. Is £1.15bn enough for a D3(M) motorway with HS plus a free flow link for the M18 to A1(M) north and west? Anything short of this spec I would say is unacceptable.
The numbers in the list are for the contracts, which are generally design-build. Total scheme costs (including the usual 60 years maintenance) will be much higher.
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

Post by Rillington »

I realise that but given that this is on the list one presumes that they will have decided what the A64 Hop Grove scheme will consist of.
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Manchester Northwest Quadrant

Post by Rillington »

When reading through the list of contacts one entry was titled Manchester Northwest Quadrant.

This is not a title i've heard of so what does this scheme involve?
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