£40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

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Rillington
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M1 Leeds Eastern Gateway

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M1 Leeds Eastern Gateway is another scheme mentioned in the contacts list. What does the M1 Leeds Eastern Gateway project consist of?
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the cheesecake man
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Re: Manchester Northwest Quadrant

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Manchester
I'm assuming it's a revival of the M62 Relief Road ie a new bit of M62 parallel to the M60 multiplex to provide extra capacity where the current road is overloaded by having two functions. Maybe demolishing Bury will be less unpopular this time.

Leeds
Somehow the name suggest more unsustainable development rather than anything useful. The new ring road is coming and there's already the newish A63. Another decent new highway in the area seems unlikely to this cynic.

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Re: M1 Leeds Eastern Gateway

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Rillington wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 19:25 M1 Leeds Eastern Gateway is another scheme mentioned in the contacts list. What does the M1 Leeds Eastern Gateway project consist of?
I did some digging a few weeks ago and it’s basically a junction improvement at J46 to create a better access as with the new ring road that junction is expected to be a bottleneck, obviously loads of development happening here.
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

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Rillington wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 19:12 Good to see A64 Hop Grove listed. Therefore what will we get for the £250 million?
It’s basically dualling Hopgrove to Barton, it’s apparently getting done to a high standard with GSJ’s along it and no at grade crossings for side roads, a study showed how much traffic an upgraded A64 is likely to attract after doing surveys on local roads nearby it was realised how much traffic is actually avoiding the A64 so if it’s upgraded this traffic is likely to be back on it, hence needing the higher standard, the hopgrove itself is basically still going to be signalised, although this will take more traffic with North Lane closing with the dualling.
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c2R
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Re: M1 Leeds Eastern Gateway

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NICK 647063 wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 20:18
Rillington wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 19:25 M1 Leeds Eastern Gateway is another scheme mentioned in the contacts list. What does the M1 Leeds Eastern Gateway project consist of?
I did some digging a few weeks ago and it’s basically a junction improvement at J46 to create a better access as with the new ring road that junction is expected to be a bottleneck, obviously loads of development happening here.
Excellent - that'll be the fourth redesign of J46 then!
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Re: Manchester Northwest Quadrant

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the cheesecake man wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 19:52Manchester
I'm assuming it's a revival of the M62 Relief Road ie a new bit of M62 parallel to the M60 multiplex to provide extra capacity where the current road is overloaded by having two functions. Maybe demolishing Bury will be less unpopular this time.
This scheme will be the outcome of the Manchester North West Quadrant Study, which did indeed recommend bringing back the old M62 Relief Road idea and bypassing the M60 with a new motorway. At present UK National English Highways Agency for England are still examining options and haven't announced what's going to happen - still on the table (last I heard) were the M60 J12-18 bypass, junction improvements J12-15, "capacity improvements" J17-18, and a new junction on the M62 between 11 and 12 with a link road to the A57.

There's a thread on it here.
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

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Rillington wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 19:11
Glenn A wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:35 Two good pieces of news, the A66 upgrade and the A1(M) from Darrington to Red House, two roads in the North that desperately need improvement. Last time I used the A66 from Scotch Corner to Penrith, I was stuck behind a tractor for 6 miles on the S2 section in North Yorkshire, then the road was at a standstill for 20 minutes on the S2 section near Center Parcs. Turning the A1 into a D3M from Darrington to Red House will improve this road, and replacing the elderly Doncaster by pass with a new motorway, will slash journey times north of Doncaster.
Agreed on both.

the A66 needs to be dualled fully between Penrith and Scotch Corner and the Darringto to Red house section really does need to become a motorway - it should have been done when the rest of the A1M north of Darrington was built.
Yes, I agree completely, but there are also sections of the A66 west of Penrith that need improvement. In particular there is the section where the A66 multiplexes with the A595, and has seen several serious accidents in recent years, that was highlighted by Cumbria County Council in the noughties for dualling. Then there is the narrowed westbound carriageway at Bassenthwaite which needs to be extensively modified with two lanes again.
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

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I think there's a reasonable case for dualling all of the A66 west of Cockermouth.
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

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KeithW wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 19:46
NICK 647063 wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 18:58 Do you not get the feeling it will be built the same as the A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon? Except it will be motorway, basically an ALR smart motorway, I can’t imagine them building a hard shoulder when they are converting most other motorways….
Given that the rest of the A1(M) from Darrington to Scotch Corner is D3(M) they just might do it anyway.
Thats irrelevant!

National Highways that only operates in England (or whatever Boris has decided they must be called it this week) made it VERY CLEAR a few years ago that they were NEVER going to build another motorway with hard shoulders again. It makes sod all difference what the rest of the A1(M) has - what you will get should spades ever hit the ground is a D3 like the new A14 with 'smart' technology and maybe, just maybe a motorway classification.
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

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Phil wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 21:25
KeithW wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 19:46
NICK 647063 wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 18:58 Do you not get the feeling it will be built the same as the A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon? Except it will be motorway, basically an ALR smart motorway, I can’t imagine them building a hard shoulder when they are converting most other motorways….
Given that the rest of the A1(M) from Darrington to Scotch Corner is D3(M) they just might do it anyway.
Thats irrelevant!

National Highways that only operates in England (or whatever Boris has decided they must be called it this week) made it VERY CLEAR a few years ago that they were NEVER going to build another motorway with hard shoulders again.
[Citation needed]
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

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Phil wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 21:25 Thats irrelevant!

National Highways that only operates in England (or whatever Boris has decided they must be called it this week) made it VERY CLEAR a few years ago that they were NEVER going to build another motorway with hard shoulders again. It makes sod all difference what the rest of the A1(M) has - what you will get should spades ever hit the ground is a D3 like the new A14 with 'smart' technology and maybe, just maybe a motorway classification.
Governments and the policies of their departments change. In the 1980's it was the received wisdom that railways were in terminal decline and the idea of building a new high speed line between London , Birmingham and Manchester would have been unthinkable. Since 2000 rail traffic has been rising rapidly and the number of passengers per year is now higher than its peak in the 1920's. As the old adage has it 'never say never'

Last time I checked the Secretary of State for Transport was Grant Shapps and he certainly is not a great proponent of the idea of conventional motorways. But if in a few years time we get a new government peddling the road safety line anything is possible.

Now the most likely outcome for the A1(M) Doncaster Bypass upgrade is indeed ALR but between Darrington and Redhouse dualling online would be a problem, at the very least new bridges at Wentbridge and Darrington would be needed. The dualling of this section of A1 was a rather nasty job done on the cheap with narrow lanes and a poor alignment. I remember that before the Darrington viaduct was built in the late 1970's you had to drive down the hill and go past the hotel. There was an at grade crossroads at the bottom.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.67380 ... 8192?hl=en


My expectation is that a new offline road will be built to motorway standard to the east of the current route at Darrington and west of the A1 between Skelbrooke and Skellow. The length of the new road will be only 8 miles or so and it would be relatively cheap and easy to use the old A1 as a LAR and renumber it as happened between Darrington and Hook Moor.
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

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I notice that one of the items in RIS 3 is 31 million for upgrades to the M11 J13, does anyone know what is planned here ?

A north facing set of slips would be a good start.
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

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On the face of it, it looks like a very welcome and rather more ambitious programme than the previous plans announced for England and Wales roads over the past decade. The A1(M) rebuild at Doncaster looks like it might be a completely new offline project as opppsed to an online widening of the existing early 1960s D2M road.

It also looks like the proposed new Thames crossing in East London will be the big priority. :D So very badly needed. I see it will be a tunnel as opposed to a bridge - would that be a cut and cover immersed tube tunnel or a deep bored one? Very little detail here. The budget for the new crossing is a whopper - and I presume much of these costs will be going into land and property acquisition, legal costs and the approach roads.

Where is the M4 Newport Southern by-pass in this new announcement? Has that scheme been canned indefinitely?
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

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Enceladus wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 17:51 On the face of it, it looks like a very welcome and rather more ambitious programme than the previous plans announced for England and Wales roads over the past decade. The A1(M) rebuild at Doncaster looks like it might be a completely new offline project as opppsed to an online widening of the existing early 1960s D2M road.

It also looks like the proposed new Thames crossing in East London will be the big priority. :D So very badly needed. I see it will be a tunnel as opposed to a bridge - would that be a cut and cover immersed tube tunnel or a deep bored one? Very little detail here. The budget for the new crossing is a whopper - and I presume much of these costs will be going into land and property acquisition, legal costs and the approach roads.

Where is the M4 Newport Southern by-pass in this new announcement? Has that scheme been canned indefinitely?

According to the HE website its a bored tunnel.
https://highwaysengland.co.uk/our-work/lower-thames-crossing/design-and-build/ wrote: It is likely to take around six years to build the tunnel and the road inside the tunnel. This project is an enormous undertaking using the most sophisticated tunnelling techniques in the world.

Operation of the tunnel boring machines would take place 24-hours-a-day throughout. This would be confined to the tunnel entrances and within the tunnel, and we would put in place noise and light mitigation.
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

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Enceladus wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 17:51 Where is the M4 Newport Southern by-pass in this new announcement? Has that scheme been canned indefinitely?
It is in Wales and therefore outside the responsibility of the Department for Transport, and so would not have appeared in this list even if it hadn't been cancelled. The Welsh government has definitively cancelled it. There have been reports that Johnson wants to get it built regardless but that would force a constitutional crisis.
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

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Phil wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 21:25
KeithW wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 19:46
NICK 647063 wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 18:58 Do you not get the feeling it will be built the same as the A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon? Except it will be motorway, basically an ALR smart motorway, I can’t imagine them building a hard shoulder when they are converting most other motorways….
Given that the rest of the A1(M) from Darrington to Scotch Corner is D3(M) they just might do it anyway.
Thats irrelevant!

National Highways that only operates in England (or whatever Boris has decided they must be called it this week) made it VERY CLEAR a few years ago that they were NEVER going to build another motorway with hard shoulders again. It makes sod all difference what the rest of the A1(M) has - what you will get should spades ever hit the ground is a D3 like the new A14 with 'smart' technology and maybe, just maybe a motorway classification.
I think it’s 100% motorway as it’s an obvious 8 miles gap in the motorway network and as mentioned before this part is to form the “Yorkshire Bypass” or whatever it was described as!

Personally I think an offline option will be the plan, it’s a hell of a job trying to build alongside an existing road with so many challenges, the Doncaster bypass is too narrow anyway……. My thoughts are they will go totally offline and it’s not crazy to think it could be 4 lanes each way, surely if they are not building with hard shoulders anymore then it’s the same width needed as a D3M but with 4 lanes running as a smart motorway…..

I live at Skellow which is literally the houses you see against the southbound carriageway prior to Redhouse, the existing A1 here is a nightmare it was closed 3 times on Wednesday with one closure going on for 6 hours after accidents, today another 2 that I know of, the traffic is more often stationary than moving, as residents from the bit of feedback we have had I’m thinking it’s offline with the old A1 past our houses as a LAR which for us is the very best option….
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

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NICK 647063 wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 22:46

I think it’s 100% motorway as it’s an obvious 8 miles gap in the motorway network and as mentioned before this part is to form the “Yorkshire Bypass” or whatever it was described as!

Personally I think an offline option will be the plan, it’s a hell of a job trying to build alongside an existing road with so many challenges, the Doncaster bypass is too narrow anyway……. My thoughts are they will go totally offline and it’s not crazy to think it could be 4 lanes each way, surely if they are not building with hard shoulders anymore then it’s the same width needed as a D3M but with 4 lanes running as a smart motorway…..

I live at Skellow which is literally the houses you see against the southbound carriageway prior to Redhouse, the existing A1 here is a nightmare it was closed 3 times on Wednesday with one closure going on for 6 hours after accidents, today another 2 that I know of, the traffic is more often stationary than moving, as residents from the bit of feedback we have had I’m thinking it’s offline with the old A1 past our houses as a LAR which for us is the very best option….
The problem is Darrington to the M18 is 16 miles and the budget is as I recall around £1.2 billion. The A14 upgrade had a similar scope and the cost of that with 3 lane ALR was around 1.5 billion. While land is more expensive in Cambridgeshire the terrain is easier for road building so I think the whole A1/A1(M) upgrade offline within the allocated budget is problematic. It seems more likely to me that a second bridge will be built over the Don alongside the present structure and the route will be widened to D3 ALR. This is pretty much what is happening on the A19 Norton to Wynard section as we speak. For the A19 Tees crossing the plan is to build another viaduct alongside it for local traffic and widen the existing viaduct to D3. This will have an additional benefit of separating Strategic and local traffic.

Yes Skellow must be bypassed but that is pretty much what I would expect as A1(M) north of Darrington was built offline and the old A! reclassified as A162.
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

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As well as ALR or a full outer Doncaster bypass, another option would be a two lane corner cut from the M18 near Clifton, rejoining the A1(M) near Sprotbrough. This route is significantly more direct than M18+A1(M). There have been rumblings about such a route for years, with the odd 'high level' map showing it.

A full bypass for A1(M) to A1(M) traffic would be much longer than the existing route so what's the point? The existing bypass should cope fine with the M18 traffic taken off it. And of course, the cost and environmental impact of a 2 lane corner cut would be far less (half?) that of a longer, wider bypass.

I still think ALR is more likely for cost and environmental reasons, but the corner cut has a few advantages compared to that - it removes the need for an expensive upgrade at the M18/A1(M) interchange and would significantly reduce volumes along the current bypass, improving journey times, safety, noise and air quality.

So ALR is most likely, then the corner cut, with the full bypass unlikely.

PS - I expect the A1(M) would be offline at Skellow regardless of the option for the Doncaster bypass.
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

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jackal wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:54 As well as ALR or a full outer Doncaster bypass, another option would be a two lane corner cut from the M18 near Clifton, rejoining the A1(M) near Sprotbrough. This route is significantly more direct than M18+A1(M). There have been rumblings about such a route for years, with the odd 'high level' map showing it.
Some design and scoping was carried out on the M18-A1(M) shortcut route, because a SABRE member (who may or may not still be with us) messaged me about it perhaps six or seven years back. At that time the Highways Agency were looking at options for the Doncaster Bypass and the corner cut was looking promising.

But of course lots more work will have happened since then, and project managers will have come and gone, so who knows what the favoured option might be now.

FWIW I’m with you and still think it’s a sensible plan, not least because it would allow a new crossing of the Don Valley offline that would save anything having to be done to widen the existing bridge.
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Re: £40bn roads pipeline unveiled for next 10 years

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jackal wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:54 As well as ALR or a full outer Doncaster bypass, another option would be a two lane corner cut from the M18 near Clifton, rejoining the A1(M) near Sprotbrough. This route is significantly more direct than M18+A1(M). There have been rumblings about such a route for years, with the odd 'high level' map showing it.

A full bypass for A1(M) to A1(M) traffic would be much longer than the existing route so what's the point? The existing bypass should cope fine with the M18 traffic taken off it. And of course, the cost and environmental impact of a 2 lane corner cut would be far less (half?) that of a longer, wider bypass.

I still think ALR is more likely for cost and environmental reasons, but the corner cut has a few advantages compared to that - it removes the need for an expensive upgrade at the M18/A1(M) interchange and would significantly reduce volumes along the current bypass, improving journey times, safety, noise and air quality.

So ALR is most likely, then the corner cut, with the full bypass unlikely.

PS - I expect the A1(M) would be offline at Skellow regardless of the option for the Doncaster bypass.
This possibility was mentioned in another thread and in general I dont have a problem but there are some specific problems due to terrain. Between Sprotborough and Conisborough there is a significant escarpment on the North Bank of the Don and the area is heavily wooded.

The best viewpoint for that is here.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.48814 ... !1e4?hl=en

Given the allocated budget I suspect the cost would be excessive and every environmental activist in South Yorkshire would be on your case.
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