How does a town become a village?

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Chris Bertram
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Re: How does a town become a village?

Post by Chris Bertram »

Norfolktolancashire wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:53
Vierwielen wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 21:14
Norfolktolancashire wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 22:20 Well my village doesn't have a Wetherspoons :)
Doesn't have a Wetherspoons or doesn't have a pub? I checked St Merryn (population 1060) where my father was based in 1946 when he met my mother to see what the norm was for Cornwall. The internet told me - 2 pubs.
I was being a bit tongue in cheek regarding being a pub that covers all four of those "ations"!

Cornwall of course has many villages with pubs, even some not owned by celebrity cooks!
I'd have loved to have visited the Maltster's in Tuckenhay, Devon, when it was owned by Keith Floyd and known as Floyd's Inn. Floyd was a fantastic chef but a poor business manager, and the standard of service apparently depended on what mood he was in, which probably depended on how much he'd had to drink. It went out of business and reverted to its former name. RIP nevertheless, a great character.
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Lonewolf
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Re: How does a town become a village?

Post by Lonewolf »

Funnily enough I've been discussing this with my g/f just recently. It could depend on your perspective too.

I live in a definite village in rural North Yorkshire, its been here forever and has a pub, church and around 600 inhabitants, thats about it.

My gf lives in a 'village' in Co Durham which didn't exist much over 150 years since. Its one of those places which grew up around a coal mine. It doesn't look like a village to me, the buildings are brick and Victorian at the oldest. Its got a few shops, a takeaway or two, a petrol station and is much larger than my village. However she insists its a village not a town.

I'd call it a town probably because it doesn't fit with my picture of a 'proper' old agricultural village but on the parameters of needing a market she's probably right.
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Vierwielen
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Re: How does a town become a village?

Post by Vierwielen »

The Voneus Village Cup is a village cricket knock-out cup. Their definition of a "village" can be found here.

The important clause is Clause 4 which states "A village shall be deemed to be a rural community consisting of not more than 10,000 inhabitants. Exceptions can be made. Please contact The Cricketer for clarification. Note: county council figures cannot in all cases be said to represent the population, since often other villages and hamlets are put together for council purposes. When in doubt, the organisers should be consulted, including decisions about mergers. Market towns are not eligible, regardless of the population figure."
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Lonewolf
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Re: How does a town become a village?

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10.000??! Thats a city! By far the biggest town round here has 12,000 folk and its the biggest place for miles around.
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the cheesecake man
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Re: How does a town become a village?

Post by the cheesecake man »

Random thought I had in the bath yesterday.

I would like to nominate Caistor as a town that is currently becoming village.

Here's the market square. There's not many shops left.
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Re: How does a town become a village?

Post by Rob590 »

the cheesecake man wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:52 Here's the market square. There's not many shops left.
Some good pre-Worboys signs though!
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KeithW
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Re: How does a town become a village?

Post by KeithW »

the cheesecake man wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:52 Random thought I had in the bath yesterday.

I would like to nominate Caistor as a town that is currently becoming village.

Here's the market square. There's not many shops left.
The status of town is a result of having a market square, in terms of population and facilities its really a medium size village. As such it does better than most settlements of its size with a coop food store, bank, post office, hair dressers, estate agents and a couple of takeaways.
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Re: How does a town become a village?

Post by Alderpoint »

KeithW wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:41 I can say there is no Wetherspoons in Middlesbrough, the nearest are in Norton and Billingham north of the Tees and in Great Broughton south of the Tees.
Wetherspoons say they currently have two pubs in Middlesborough:
- The Swatters Carr on Linthorpe Road
- The Resolution on Newport Crescent

They also used to have the Isaac Wilson too.
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Re: How does a town become a village?

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KeithW wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:41
Norfolktolancashire wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 22:20 Well my village doesn't have a Wetherspoons :)
I can say there is no Wetherspoons in Middlesbrough, the nearest are in Norton and Billingham north of the Tees and in Great Broughton south of the Tees. Locally in Marton we have 3 pubs, The Rudds Arms (Greene King), the Southern Cross (Greene King) and the Brunton Arms (Sam Smiths)

In North Yorkshire we have one rather well known Pub that is several miles from the nearest settlement, the Lion Inn on Blakey Ridge. Great place for Sunday lunch but booking ahead was advisable even before Covid-19. Considering it is at an elevation of over 1300 ft above sea level on an unclassified road and rather remote they must be doing something right.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.38842 ... 6656?hl=en
Theres a Wetherspoons in Gt Broughton??? Where?

Lion at Blakey is hardly on an unclassified road, its on the main road from Kirkby to Castleton (and about 7 miles from me lol)
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KeithW
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Re: How does a town become a village?

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Lonewolf wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 16:48
KeithW wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:41
Norfolktolancashire wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 22:20 Well my village doesn't have a Wetherspoons :)
I can say there is no Wetherspoons in Middlesbrough, the nearest are in Norton and Billingham north of the Tees and in Great Broughton south of the Tees. Locally in Marton we have 3 pubs, The Rudds Arms (Greene King), the Southern Cross (Greene King) and the Brunton Arms (Sam Smiths)

In North Yorkshire we have one rather well known Pub that is several miles from the nearest settlement, the Lion Inn on Blakey Ridge. Great place for Sunday lunch but booking ahead was advisable even before Covid-19. Considering it is at an elevation of over 1300 ft above sea level on an unclassified road and rather remote they must be doing something right.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.38842 ... 6656?hl=en
Theres a Wetherspoons in Gt Broughton??? Where?

Lion at Blakey is hardly on an unclassified road, its on the main road from Kirkby to Castleton (and about 7 miles from me lol)
It come up in a web search but now seems to have disappeared, serves me right for trusting Google. As I recall it was claiming that the Bay Horse had been acquired by Wetherspoons which I am pleased to say seems to have been fake news.

As for the Lion it is indeed on the main road from Kirkby To Castleton but it is not shown as classified on any maps including the OS map and the Definitive Rights of way map held by the County Council. As further evidence I give you this sign. I live a little farther away than you (20 miles) but I know it well. Not it may be one of those C Class roads without an allocated number but that hardly helps.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.40830 ... 6656?hl=en

In fact weather permitting I will be taking my favourite autumn circular drive this coming weekend

Marton to Stokesley - A172
Stokesley to Great Broughton and Helmsley - B1257
Helmsley to Kirby Mills - A170
Kirkby Mills to Hutton Le Hole and Blakey
Lunch at the Lion - if I can get a booking
Blakey to Marton via Westerdale, Kildale and Great Ayton
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Re: How does a town become a village?

Post by Lonewolf »

KeithW wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 21:20

In fact weather permitting I will be taking my favourite autumn circular drive this coming weekend

Marton to Stokesley - A172
Stokesley to Great Broughton and Helmsley - B1257
Helmsley to Kirby Mills - A170
Kirkby Mills to Hutton Le Hole and Blakey
Lunch at the Lion - if I can get a booking
Blakey to Marton via Westerdale, Kildale and Great Ayton
Nice drive. If I could recommend a small change....

At Hutton le Hole take the right turn at the top of the village (signposted Lastingham) and then the first left. This will bring you down the famous Chimney Bank into Rosedale. Turn left at the bottom and it brings you back out on the Castleton road about half a mile from the Lion.

The B1257 between Helmsley and Stokesley is known locally as the Helmsley TT :D
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Re: How does a town become a village?

Post by KeithW »

Lonewolf wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 07:28
KeithW wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 21:20

In fact weather permitting I will be taking my favourite autumn circular drive this coming weekend

Marton to Stokesley - A172
Stokesley to Great Broughton and Helmsley - B1257
Helmsley to Kirby Mills - A170
Kirkby Mills to Hutton Le Hole and Blakey
Lunch at the Lion - if I can get a booking
Blakey to Marton via Westerdale, Kildale and Great Ayton
Nice drive. If I could recommend a small change....

At Hutton le Hole take the right turn at the top of the village (signposted Lastingham) and then the first left. This will bring you down the famous Chimney Bank into Rosedale. Turn left at the bottom and it brings you back out on the Castleton road about half a mile from the Lion.

The B1257 between Helmsley and Stokesley is known locally as the Helmsley TT :D
I know Rosedale well, my Aunt used to have holiday cottage there , any wimp can drive down Chimney Bank , going up it is the challenge :) An interesting place to stop and take a walk is the car park near where the chimney was. You can take a short walk to the Kilns or for the more adventurous all the way up the incline to the Lion, that said its been over 20 years since I was fit enough to consider doing that, old age and arthritis take their toll. The B1257 seems to have somewhat fallen out of favour of late with bilers, partly down to the police campaign to reduce casualties (lots of talivans in summer) but mainly due to poor maintenance I think. Last time I drove it the surface was not that good. It had been dressed with loose chippings and tar and looked to this old biker as being rather easy to lose control on. You really don't want to come off and hit a dry stone wall, it rarely ends well.

Then there was the RTC in 2014 where the police ascertained that the biker was doing 129 mph when he hit a car on Newgate Bank killing the driver and himself. As I recall the bike went through the car windscreen killing the driver instantly. The end result is Newgate bank is now double white lined for the entire length and is a favourite haunt of the dreaded talivan not to mention the speed cameras.
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Lonewolf
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Re: How does a town become a village?

Post by Lonewolf »

I went down Chimney Bank last December and it was sheet ice :shock: I definitely slid down some of it lol.

I'm a photographer by hobby, took this earlier this year.

Rosedale Chimney Bank 10 x 8.jpg
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KeithW
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Re: How does a town become a village?

Post by KeithW »

Lonewolf wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 18:02 I went down Chimney Bank last December and it was sheet ice :shock: I definitely slid down some of it lol.

I'm a photographer by hobby, took this earlier this year.


Rosedale Chimney Bank 10 x 8.jpg
You are a braver man than me, I wouldnt even think about tackling it in December unless I had studded tyres fitted.

Nice photo by the way.
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Re: How does a town become a village?

Post by trickstat »

It appears that The Hairy Bikers are in the Helmsley area on their show that is on at 8 on BBC2 this evening (for those watching "live" television).
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Re: How does a town become a village?

Post by the cheesecake man »

Fluid Dynamics wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 22:32 The other strange example is Rochester that used to be a city until 1998 when it became part of Medway unitary authority, and lost is status due to an administrative error.
Intriguingly this recent YouTube video has uncovered council minutes that reveal the council didn't forget to appoint charter trustees, they chose not to do so:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBaLb1C4WAg
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