Of course three of Europe's capital cities did exactly that so it's not without precedent
Why are some Motorways numbered similar to A roads the replaced and others not?
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Re: Why are some Motorways numbered similar to A roads the replaced and others not?
Re: Why are some Motorways numbered similar to A roads the replaced and others not?
Which capital cities are those?
Re: Why are some Motorways numbered similar to A roads the replaced and others not?
Budapest and Brussels are two, I'm not sure what the third is...
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Re: Why are some Motorways numbered similar to A roads the replaced and others not?
The original end of the M602 at J2 is close to what was the boundary between Eccles MB (which came under Lancashire CC) and Salford CB. That may have been a factor in ending it there for the time being. Other relevant factors may have been the tolerable quality of the A57 east of Eccles, and the fact that building the Eccles bypass first enabled the key interchanges in the motorway network to be completed.
The eastward extension came at a time when there was a government push to improve roads to ports - but also at a time when the Salford/Manchester docks were declining in importance, soon to be turned into Salford Quays.
Re: Why are some Motorways numbered similar to A roads the replaced and others not?
Bucharest. Disappointingly Belgrade, Berne and Berlin didn't follow the others' lead
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Re: Why are some Motorways numbered similar to A roads the replaced and others not?
Belgium gives ring roads "R" numbers regardless of standard, so some are full motorway and some are single-carriageway all-purpose affairs. Brussels' ring road is R0, most of it is motorway, however one part on the eastern side of the city appears to br AP DC according to my Michelin road atlas of Benelux.
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Re: Why are some Motorways numbered similar to A roads the replaced and others not?
The Czech Republic has a D0 motorway forming a partial ring road around Prague, similar to the M0 around Budapest in Hungary. So yes, it certainly wouldn’t be completely unprecedented to have an M0 around London. There are of course other examples throughout Europe of this sort of idea mentioned upthread. It seems to have more appeal in countries with a road system centralised around a capital which sits somewhere that is geographically convenient for the country as a whole.
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Re: Why are some Motorways numbered similar to A roads the replaced and others not?
The SE section of the R0 both in Flanders and Wallonia is not motorway.Chris Bertram wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:51Belgium gives ring roads "R" numbers regardless of standard, so some are full motorway and some are single-carriageway all-purpose affairs. Brussels' ring road is R0, most of it is motorway, however one part on the eastern side of the city appears to br AP DC according to my Michelin road atlas of Benelux.
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Re: Why are some Motorways numbered similar to A roads the replaced and others not?
It could be argued that the Péripherique doesn't really merit a number at all, because the highest speed that can be achieved is about walking pace.Chris Bertram wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 17:35 Let's look over the channel. The Paris outer orbital, La Francilienne, is A/N104, the ring road is A86, and the inner ring is simply the Boulevard Péripherique, and doesn't have a number at all.
Re: Why are some Motorways numbered similar to A roads the replaced and others not?
That might qualify it for a number in the GR series?Owain wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 07:15It could be argued that the Péripherique doesn't really merit a number at all, because the highest speed that can be achieved is about walking pace.Chris Bertram wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 17:35 Let's look over the channel. The Paris outer orbital, La Francilienne, is A/N104, the ring road is A86, and the inner ring is simply the Boulevard Péripherique, and doesn't have a number at all.
Chris
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Re: Why are some Motorways numbered similar to A roads the replaced and others not?
I should've known that on SABRE you'll always get an answer for everything, even before breakfast!Chris5156 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 07:43That might qualify it for a number in the GR series?Owain wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 07:15It could be argued that the Péripherique doesn't really merit a number at all, because the highest speed that can be achieved is about walking pace.Chris Bertram wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 17:35 Let's look over the channel. The Paris outer orbital, La Francilienne, is A/N104, the ring road is A86, and the inner ring is simply the Boulevard Péripherique, and doesn't have a number at all.
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Re: Why are some Motorways numbered similar to A roads the replaced and others not?
IMHO, the Péripherique has more in common with the North Circular (aka A405)/South Circular (aka A205) than with the M25.Owain wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 07:15It could be argued that the Péripherique doesn't really merit a number at all, because the highest speed that can be achieved is about walking pace.Chris Bertram wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 17:35 Let's look over the channel. The Paris outer orbital, La Francilienne, is A/N104, the ring road is A86, and the inner ring is simply the Boulevard Péripherique, and doesn't have a number at all.
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Re: Why are some Motorways numbered similar to A roads the replaced and others not?
So if we were to adopt that custom, the M25 would be the R0(M), the M60 would be the R1(M) and the M42/M6(toll)/A460/A449/A491/A38 would be the R2, R2(M) or R2(T) depending on the type of road.exiled wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 20:07The SE section of the R0 both in Flanders and Wallonia is not motorway.Chris Bertram wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:51Belgium gives ring roads "R" numbers regardless of standard, so some are full motorway and some are single-carriageway all-purpose affairs. Brussels' ring road is R0, most of it is motorway, however one part on the eastern side of the city appears to br AP DC according to my Michelin road atlas of Benelux.
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Re: Why are some Motorways numbered similar to A roads the replaced and others not?
Err, no. The M6/M5/M42 would be the route numbered around Birmingham because that's the box around the city.Vierwielen wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 09:47 the M42/M6(toll)/A460/A449/A491/A38 would be the R2, R2(M) or R2(T) depending on the type of road.
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Re: Why are some Motorways numbered similar to A roads the replaced and others not?
That depends whether we are talking about a route with the North/South Circular functionality of a route with the M25 functionality.Steven wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:07Err, no. The M6/M5/M42 would be the route numbered around Birmingham because that's the box around the city.Vierwielen wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 09:47 the M42/M6(toll)/A460/A449/A491/A38 would be the R2, R2(M) or R2(T) depending on the type of road.
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Re: Why are some Motorways numbered similar to A roads the replaced and others not?
Not really. It's making the classic error of including huge areas that are functionally separate - for example, you're choosing to go right through an important city centre!Vierwielen wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:17That depends whether we are talking about a route with the North/South Circular functionality of a route with the M25 functionality.Steven wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:07Err, no. The M6/M5/M42 would be the route numbered around Birmingham because that's the box around the city.Vierwielen wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 09:47 the M42/M6(toll)/A460/A449/A491/A38 would be the R2, R2(M) or R2(T) depending on the type of road.
The M42/M5/M6 box is the M25 equivalent, with the Circular equivalent being the A4540. The M5 is basically the western edge of where the influence of Birmingham fades out - only a tiny bit is even in the Birmingham Travel to Work Area; whilst the eastern side of the M42 is only just inside the TTWA. It's similar to how the majority of the M25 is within the London TTWA, and not miles outside.
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Re: Why are some Motorways numbered similar to A roads the replaced and others not?
The BP seems not to have a number because it appears to be sui generis, under its own rules, in the French Code de la Route, a Parisian boulevard with some motorway characteristics. The other Pérépheriques have mostly RN numbers with a few RD or A classifications.Owain wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 07:15It could be argued that the Péripherique doesn't really merit a number at all, because the highest speed that can be achieved is about walking pace.Chris Bertram wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 17:35 Let's look over the channel. The Paris outer orbital, La Francilienne, is A/N104, the ring road is A86, and the inner ring is simply the Boulevard Péripherique, and doesn't have a number at all.
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Re: Why are some Motorways numbered similar to A roads the replaced and others not?
In what world is that collection of roads considered to function as a single ring road?Vierwielen wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 09:47 So if we were to adopt that custom, the M25 would be the R0(M), the M60 would be the R1(M) and the M42/M6(toll)/A460/A449/A491/A38 would be the R2, R2(M) or R2(T) depending on the type of road.
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Re: Why are some Motorways numbered similar to A roads the replaced and others not?
It wouldn't. In Belgium R routes are often not full rings. Antwerp is a good example where R2 is a corner cut and nothing else.Chris5156 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 16:38In what world is that collection of roads considered to function as a single ring road?Vierwielen wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 09:47 So if we were to adopt that custom, the M25 would be the R0(M), the M60 would be the R1(M) and the M42/M6(toll)/A460/A449/A491/A38 would be the R2, R2(M) or R2(T) depending on the type of road.
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Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
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Re: Why are some Motorways numbered similar to A roads the replaced and others not?
And of course you also get the R9 in Charleroi that although a complete ring, is one way. The R roads of Belgium are basically what the old unitary state and now the three regions need them to be at any particular point on the space time continuum.Bryn666 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 17:09It wouldn't. In Belgium R routes are often not full rings. Antwerp is a good example where R2 is a corner cut and nothing else.Chris5156 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 16:38In what world is that collection of roads considered to function as a single ring road?Vierwielen wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 09:47 So if we were to adopt that custom, the M25 would be the R0(M), the M60 would be the R1(M) and the M42/M6(toll)/A460/A449/A491/A38 would be the R2, R2(M) or R2(T) depending on the type of road.
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