Roller shutter expansion joints
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Roller shutter expansion joints
Good evening, a few days ago I was having a close look at the roller shutter expansion joints on the Humber bridge. There are two such joints up there, one under each tower and each is responsible for dealing with the expansion of half the main span and the approach span meaning the south joint has to deal with the expansion and contraction of around 1250 meters of steel bridge deck, which I believe is more than any other joint in the whole country.
I was wondering if anyone knows where I can see other Roller shutter expansion joints in the UK. Roller shutter joints seem to be very rare.
So far I have been able to find out that such joints also exist on:
Fourth road bridge (4 joints)
Avonmouth Viaduct (1 joint)
A40 Westway (1 joint, this joint deals with the expansion and contraction of around 1100 meters of concrete bridge deck and is due to replacement, there is currently a 30mph speed limit in force to protect this joint, 10 comb/tooth joints also need replacing)
Also are these joints found much overseas?
I was wondering if anyone knows where I can see other Roller shutter expansion joints in the UK. Roller shutter joints seem to be very rare.
So far I have been able to find out that such joints also exist on:
Fourth road bridge (4 joints)
Avonmouth Viaduct (1 joint)
A40 Westway (1 joint, this joint deals with the expansion and contraction of around 1100 meters of concrete bridge deck and is due to replacement, there is currently a 30mph speed limit in force to protect this joint, 10 comb/tooth joints also need replacing)
Also are these joints found much overseas?
The A180(T) is one of the noisiest roads in the country
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Re: Roller shutter expansion joints
Here is a close up view of one of the roller shutter joints on the Humber BR (Toll).
Looks like someone has stuck anti-pigeon spikes on the sides of the individual sections at some point though most have now fell off.
The hinged/articulated plates are attached to the main span to the left of the picture, and as the bridge expands the sections are "subducted" under the approach span to the right.
Looks like someone has stuck anti-pigeon spikes on the sides of the individual sections at some point though most have now fell off.
The hinged/articulated plates are attached to the main span to the left of the picture, and as the bridge expands the sections are "subducted" under the approach span to the right.
The A180(T) is one of the noisiest roads in the country
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Re: Roller shutter expansion joints
Here are two videos on the expansion joints on the Forth Road Bridge.
https://www.facebook.com/theforthbridge ... 838094846/
https://www.facebook.com/theforthbridge ... 329746501/
https://www.facebook.com/theforthbridge ... 838094846/
https://www.facebook.com/theforthbridge ... 329746501/
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Re: Roller shutter expansion joints
Not that I was a bridge engineer (TF) but Tinsley Viaduct:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.41383 ... 8192?hl=en
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.41384 ... 8192?hl=en
Note also the joint on the safety barrier.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.41383 ... 8192?hl=en
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.41384 ... 8192?hl=en
Note also the joint on the safety barrier.
Patience is not a virtue - it's a concept invented by the dozy beggars who are unable to think quickly enough.
Re: Roller shutter expansion joints
I never knew these existed, so I have learned something new here and I’m delighted! How incredibly clever.
The Westway joint I’m very familiar with as I’ve been commuting over it for most of the last two years, though I use it much less now. It initially had an isolated 30 limit on the approach in each direction, but that was then extended to cover a longer length of road before the whole Westway became a 30 limit.
The yellow A-frame signs put up back in early 2020 are still there and say the bridge joint needs replacing. They also say the work will begin in December 2020, which never happened - does anyone know whether there’s a date for the work to start?
The Westway joint I’m very familiar with as I’ve been commuting over it for most of the last two years, though I use it much less now. It initially had an isolated 30 limit on the approach in each direction, but that was then extended to cover a longer length of road before the whole Westway became a 30 limit.
The yellow A-frame signs put up back in early 2020 are still there and say the bridge joint needs replacing. They also say the work will begin in December 2020, which never happened - does anyone know whether there’s a date for the work to start?
Chris
Roads.org.uk
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Re: Roller shutter expansion joints
According to this article: https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest ... 5-10-2021/ , the Westway roller shutter joint is being replaced right now although I drove over it on the 17th Oct and there was no evidence of any work on site. Perhaps they mean that the replacement joint is being fabricated at a factory.
I believe the fourth road bridge joints were made by Demag in Germany although no idea if they also made the Westway joint or any other UK roller shutter joints.
I believe the fourth road bridge joints were made by Demag in Germany although no idea if they also made the Westway joint or any other UK roller shutter joints.
The A180(T) is one of the noisiest roads in the country
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Re: Roller shutter expansion joints
I do wonder why they are known as "roller shutter" joints as the sections do not roll up. I would have thought a "sectional joint" or "subduction joint" would be more descriptive.
The A180(T) is one of the noisiest roads in the country
Re: Roller shutter expansion joints
Yes, there was no work happening on site - other than the cones and narrowed lanes that have been in place since February 2020, and are increasingly scattered haphazardly on the hard shoulder - when I passed on Wednesday morning last week. I haven’t used the Westway since then. But it’s good to know something is in progress!A180(T) wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 21:05 According to this article: https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest ... 5-10-2021/ , the Westway roller shutter joint is being replaced right now although I drove over it on the 17th Oct and there was no evidence of any work on site. Perhaps they mean that the replacement joint is being fabricated at a factory.
I believe the fourth road bridge joints were made by Demag in Germany although no idea if they also made the Westway joint or any other UK roller shutter joints.
Without wanting to take the thread off topic, I’m interested to see that parapet renewals are on the cards for the Westway. The existing signs, lights and gantries almost all stand on the parapets so that could mean the removal of a lot of original design features and a very different looking road.
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
Re: Roller shutter expansion joints
It looks like work will be starting on site later this month. TfL-controlled VMS across London are now displaying messages suggesting the Westway will be closed for the whole weekend, every weekend, from late November through to July next year.A180(T) wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 21:05According to this article: https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest ... 5-10-2021/ , the Westway roller shutter joint is being replaced right now although I drove over it on the 17th Oct and there was no evidence of any work on site. Perhaps they mean that the replacement joint is being fabricated at a factory.
The VMS all seem to indicate the closure will be eastbound only, but there's also a new fixed sign at the start of the Paddington Flyover westbound that suggests the road will be closed there for weekends between now and July. That strongly suggests the closure will actually cover both directions.
Either way it's going to be a lot of fun* for anyone who has to drive that way at the weekend. The Bayswater Road in particular is going to be horrendous.
I might try to find some time to make a trip to London so I can take some more photos of the Westway in its current state, in case those weekend closures involve replacement of parapets and other original features. It could be a very different looking road in a year's time, and it will be a shame if more of its original features vanish, but I don't think TfL have much interest in preserving them.
* fun not included
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
Re: Roller shutter expansion joints
Definitely do. If you don't I will have to do it, and then I'll have to whinge on twitter for months about having to do it.Chris5156 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 18:18 I might try to find some time to make a trip to London so I can take some more photos of the Westway in its current state, in case those weekend closures involve replacement of parapets and other original features. It could be a very different looking road in a year's time, and it will be a shame if more of its original features vanish, but I don't think TfL have much interest in preserving them.
* fun not included
It'll be interesting to see what happens as the concrete wall parapets down there are seemingly an integral part of the structure so if they move towards more conventional beam and post solutions - and presumably the lighting is not coming back either - this will definitely be a different road entirely.
I do wish they'd reinstate the 40 limit though as the 30 is just bonkers.
Bryn
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She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
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Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
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Re: Roller shutter expansion joints
I don't see how they can, but equally I'm not sure what the other options might be. The lower part of the parapet wall is concrete formed along with the bridge deck, I think, but it's faced with fibreglass, and then has a custom-made post and rail on top to bring it up to full height. I wonder if they're planning to discard the fibreglass cladding to make the concrete easier to maintain, and perhaps shotcrete it to give it a new weatherproof surface. A new post and rail could then go on top.Bryn666 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 18:39It'll be interesting to see what happens as the concrete wall parapets down there are seemingly an integral part of the structure so if they move towards more conventional beam and post solutions - and presumably the lighting is not coming back either - this will definitely be a different road entirely.
I also wonder if the gantries are now considered life expired. They're showing signs of rust (from the sort of inspection it's possible to make from a traffic jam) and not carrying the loads and equipment they were designed for; indeed some are no longer carrying anything at all and I'd expect those ones to go to reduce the maintenance liability. But any that come down will have to be replaced because there's nowhere to mount conventional signs. Presumably replacements will be lightweight structures just designed to hold plan reflectorised signfaces, and probably much smaller ones at that, given the reduced lettering size permissible in a 30 limit.
If I ruled the world TfL would recognise the historical importance of the structure and send at least some removed gantries, metalwork and surviving signal equipment to the Museum Depot at Acton, but I'm not holding my breath for that. The London Transport Museum is exclusively for buses and tube trains, not for anything else TfL grudgingly maintain
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
Re: Roller shutter expansion joints
It would be possible to use lightweight lattix mounted signs cantilevered over the carriageway instead of full blown gantries. This was done experimentally in Dudley (barriers prevented you from crashing into the posts) and has never been done anywhere else in the UK as far as I know.
In Sweden every sign gantry is like that.
That said, the gantries on the M5 were knackered and have been refurbished very well so you may see those structures live on.
In Sweden every sign gantry is like that.
That said, the gantries on the M5 were knackered and have been refurbished very well so you may see those structures live on.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: Roller shutter expansion joints
One further thought about the parapets. I wonder if any refurbishment work would involve stronger and higher parapets where the Westway crosses railway lines. The existing ones don’t meet the modern (post-Great Heck rail crash) standards, and at all the points where a railway is underneath or alongside, there are concrete blocks in the hard shoulder as an extra layer of protection. I imagine it’d be worth getting rid of those.
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
Re: Roller shutter expansion joints
It's very likely. I can see this tipping the balance towards post and rail parapets.Chris5156 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 18:37 One further thought about the parapets. I wonder if any refurbishment work would involve stronger and higher parapets where the Westway crosses railway lines. The existing ones don’t meet the modern (post-Great Heck rail crash) standards, and at all the points where a railway is underneath or alongside, there are concrete blocks in the hard shoulder as an extra layer of protection. I imagine it’d be worth getting rid of those.
I have remembered that numerous Owen Williams bridges on the M1 have had their concrete parapets removed and reconstructed as post and rail systems. It looked a bit jarring at the time but it's weathered in now.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
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Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: Roller shutter expansion joints
I've managed to dig up some more information about the Westway works on the TfL website - there's a page describing the closures and the expected traffic impact (short version: traffic will be awful), and a second page describing what they will be doing and what's planned for the future.
It looks like:
Full weekend closures eastbound between now and March
Full weekend closures westbound between March and July
The closures will typically run from 22.00 on Fridays to 05.00 on Mondays. During the week the road will be restricted to two lanes each way instead of three. The weekend closure will be the real issue here; aside from a bit of a slow-down where the entry sliproads from Paddington and the West Cross Route join I don't think the lane restrictions will have a catastrophic effect. All of that will be to enable replacement of the one big roller shutter joint near Acklam Road - there's some interesting detail on how they'll do it at the links above.
There will then be further design work for a "Phase 2" project, which will replace a further 10 tooth-and-comb expansion joints (Westway has quite a few of those, but they're not such a big deal as the roller shutter one), repair the drainage system, carry out concrete repairs, and strengthen parapets at "high risk locations". My takeaway from that is that the bridge parapets will be refurbished and strengthened where the road crosses railway lines, in order to get rid of the temporary concrete blocks, but otherwise the parapets and therefore also the things standing on them (gantries, signs, lights, etc) will be left alone. The concrete repairs are probably long overdue and quite extensive, since some of the Westway's structures have been classified as being at risk for years now; the drainage works are also sorely needed because somehow the Westway has become an elevated road that floods in heavy rain.
The bad news, though, is that the Phase 2 works will then wait for funding before they can begin - so the Phase 1 works will be cleared away in July 2022, assuming they finish on time, and then a similar set of weekend closures and lane restrictions will go back in again for another lengthy period shortly afterwards. Yikes!
It's easy to complain about the disruption that all this will cause, but I think we have to remember that the Westway has been neglected for decades and all of this work is long overdue, some of it having been postponed again and again for years. I'm not looking forward to it at all, but I'm glad that it is, at least, finally starting to happen.
It looks like:
Full weekend closures eastbound between now and March
Full weekend closures westbound between March and July
The closures will typically run from 22.00 on Fridays to 05.00 on Mondays. During the week the road will be restricted to two lanes each way instead of three. The weekend closure will be the real issue here; aside from a bit of a slow-down where the entry sliproads from Paddington and the West Cross Route join I don't think the lane restrictions will have a catastrophic effect. All of that will be to enable replacement of the one big roller shutter joint near Acklam Road - there's some interesting detail on how they'll do it at the links above.
There will then be further design work for a "Phase 2" project, which will replace a further 10 tooth-and-comb expansion joints (Westway has quite a few of those, but they're not such a big deal as the roller shutter one), repair the drainage system, carry out concrete repairs, and strengthen parapets at "high risk locations". My takeaway from that is that the bridge parapets will be refurbished and strengthened where the road crosses railway lines, in order to get rid of the temporary concrete blocks, but otherwise the parapets and therefore also the things standing on them (gantries, signs, lights, etc) will be left alone. The concrete repairs are probably long overdue and quite extensive, since some of the Westway's structures have been classified as being at risk for years now; the drainage works are also sorely needed because somehow the Westway has become an elevated road that floods in heavy rain.
The bad news, though, is that the Phase 2 works will then wait for funding before they can begin - so the Phase 1 works will be cleared away in July 2022, assuming they finish on time, and then a similar set of weekend closures and lane restrictions will go back in again for another lengthy period shortly afterwards. Yikes!
It's easy to complain about the disruption that all this will cause, but I think we have to remember that the Westway has been neglected for decades and all of this work is long overdue, some of it having been postponed again and again for years. I'm not looking forward to it at all, but I'm glad that it is, at least, finally starting to happen.
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
Re: Roller shutter expansion joints
A similar comparison would be the continual neglect of the Pulaski Skyway in New Jersey. Opened in 1934 it finally received much needed repairs in the 21st Century. The roadworks lasted for approximately 7 years and required total closures of various parts resulting in diversions and disruption on the approaches to the Holland Tunnel. The lesson is, don't leave things until such a point the structure is all but collapsing.Chris5156 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:25 I've managed to dig up some more information about the Westway works on the TfL website - there's a page describing the closures and the expected traffic impact (short version: traffic will be awful), and a second page describing what they will be doing and what's planned for the future.
It looks like:
Full weekend closures eastbound between now and March
Full weekend closures westbound between March and July
The closures will typically run from 22.00 on Fridays to 05.00 on Mondays. During the week the road will be restricted to two lanes each way instead of three. The weekend closure will be the real issue here; aside from a bit of a slow-down where the entry sliproads from Paddington and the West Cross Route join I don't think the lane restrictions will have a catastrophic effect. All of that will be to enable replacement of the one big roller shutter joint near Acklam Road - there's some interesting detail on how they'll do it at the links above.
There will then be further design work for a "Phase 2" project, which will replace a further 10 tooth-and-comb expansion joints (Westway has quite a few of those, but they're not such a big deal as the roller shutter one), repair the drainage system, carry out concrete repairs, and strengthen parapets at "high risk locations". My takeaway from that is that the bridge parapets will be refurbished and strengthened where the road crosses railway lines, in order to get rid of the temporary concrete blocks, but otherwise the parapets and therefore also the things standing on them (gantries, signs, lights, etc) will be left alone. The concrete repairs are probably long overdue and quite extensive, since some of the Westway's structures have been classified as being at risk for years now; the drainage works are also sorely needed because somehow the Westway has become an elevated road that floods in heavy rain.
The bad news, though, is that the Phase 2 works will then wait for funding before they can begin - so the Phase 1 works will be cleared away in July 2022, assuming they finish on time, and then a similar set of weekend closures and lane restrictions will go back in again for another lengthy period shortly afterwards. Yikes!
It's easy to complain about the disruption that all this will cause, but I think we have to remember that the Westway has been neglected for decades and all of this work is long overdue, some of it having been postponed again and again for years. I'm not looking forward to it at all, but I'm glad that it is, at least, finally starting to happen.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
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Re: Roller shutter expansion joints
Wondering if anyone had driven westway recently and can give any updates on the progress of the replacement of the roller shutter joint there?
The A180(T) is one of the noisiest roads in the country
Re: Roller shutter expansion joints
The eastbound carriageway is the one being worked on at the moment. I last went that way about a week ago. Since November it’s been down to two lanes running in what was lane 2 and 3, with the other half of the carriageway protected by barriers and surprisingly high fences. Presumably that means they’re doing half a carriageway at a time and the work will switch over in the coming weeks, with traffic moving on to the hard shoulder and lane 1.
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
Re: Roller shutter expansion joints
Used the Westway this evening for the first time in a week or two. As predicted, the switch has happened, and eastbound traffic is now running in the hard shoulder and lane 1. The worksite is now in lanes 2 and 3.
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk