DB617 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:27
Huh. I'm really in two minds about this.
The M48 and M49 have never been that busy because they mostly form link roads between areas also covered by other motorways. The M49 has already been flagged as having extra strategic value that has no yet been tapped, but it cost an absolute fortune to build a massive junction - though I would argue in that case it was justified as the idea was that it would handle a lot of articulated traffic.
There is definitely value in relieving congestion in Chepstow and Monmouthshire by adding extra accesses on the long, otherwise uninterrupted M48. If they were to be compact GSJs this could be done without damaging the road's chances of acting as a night-time or emergency diversion route for the M4. Also if they were to be GSJs, the use of the land off the motorway for tin sheds or houses wouldn't actually damage the strategic value of the road
that much given the colossal amount of capacity overhead. I can see why the Welsh Government is not a big fan of the M48 sucking down trunk road maintenance money just for it to be used for almost nothing, but then, that will stay the case unless it's detrunked which is a whole other level of controversy.
On the other hand, I'm concerned that every single proposal the Welsh Government has made regarding southeast Wales has involved in some way compromising the M48's ability to act as a diversion route, in favour of slowly degrading its status as an arterial, strategic road. My largest objection to the M4 Relief Road plans as they stood was the ludicrous M5 J11A style roundabout just plopped in the middle of the new M4/M48 complex outside Undy, which would have diverted all traffic on a PWB night-time closure through a small roundabout instead of a large interchange. There is definitely something very fishy about it, and knowing what I know about the state of the WG, I would not trust them.
So on the surface, this seems like not a terrible plan. But it could well be a slippery slope.
An extra junction might benefit places like Caldicot and Crick, but it would make little difference to Chepstow.
As Chepstow lies east of the A466, it therefore lies to the north-east of the existing junction. There is nowhere to put in a new junction that would help Chepstow, but there is a possible solution (see below).
danfw194 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:06Steven wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:57As it stands the motorway is absolutely of no benefit to anyone who lives in that area. This road needs to cater for local needs, not for long-distance through traffic that has long since been using the M4, as it should.
That's not true - it allows for five lanes of long-distance traffic across the Severn, and allows for journey reliability. Just because the UK is generally terrible at offering alternative parallel provisions (unlike most of the rest of Europe), doesn't mean where it does exist that it should be removed.
The same argument extended somewhat could be used against any restricted access road - for example, the M26 is of no benefit to anyone who lives in the area, and long distance traffic should be using M20/M25 instead. And besides, it is of use for local traffic - that's why there's a junction serving Chepstow! Other than that, there's no town of significant size along that stretch.
Why does that matter when the road serves no other purpose other than for the locals (who would be the ones using those developments)?
This is demonstrably untrue, as it clearly does serve a long-distance purpose.
None of those answers sufficiently address the point that this road ought to cater for local needs now, not long distance traffic which has abandoned it. If it does serve a long-distance purpose, why does barely any long-distance traffic use it nowadays? It's basically just a back-up road for the M4 - which in an ideal world is lovely, it would be wonderful to have back-up roads for all major routes, but it's a waste when the road could be doing much more for the local situation, which as the article points out is a nightmare. It has the potential to unclog local roads, which for me is a far better use of it than just simply keeping it as it is as a useful backup for when the M4 gets stuck.
Plus, we don't actually know what the plans would end up being, the most likely scenario is that it would not have any at-grade junctions added, hence it wouldn't really compromise it much anyway. Assumptions are being made, quite probably wrongly, on how this would all turn out.
EDIT: The one junction you mention of for Chepstow is not enough, as the article discusses.
That one junction for Chepstow is all Chepstow is going to get! As Chepstow lies immediately to the east of the A466, and the Rivers Wye and Severn lie immediately to the east of the junction, there is nowhere else to put a junction that will alleviate the A48 through the town. There is no way anybody is going to propose sticking another junction in between the Wye and Severn Bridges - it would be easier to build that bridge to Northern Ireland than put a junction in at Beachley!
When I was a kid and the A48 bypass opened (in the form of a bypass for Tutshill rather than Chepstow), there was talk of the new road following the route of the railway line down the Welsh side of the Wye to meet the existing junction. But instead, they just plugged the new bit of the A48 into the existing road that heads up a steep climb out of the town, and built a brand new Tesco near the meeting point which immediately clogged the new road up with traffic!
If the new road had completely bypassed Chepstow rather than simply bypassing Tutshill and the old Wye Bridge, it would have done far more for the town than any reclassification of the M48, as the queues from the A48/A466 roundabout can stretch all the way to England during rush hour. It is not the motorway status of the M48 that is a problem for Chepstow; it the absence of a proper bypass for the A48.
trickstat wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 15:18danfw194 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 13:08haymansafc wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 13:03I'm still someone who uses it as part of a long distance route because it's more convenient to me than the newer M4 bridge.
I don't see how that works out? Unless you have a penchant for stopping at the Severn View services or Chepstow.
If your intended destination is Chepstow or the Wye Valley then it makes sense.
The Forest of Dean and Wye Valley are tourist destinations of some significance. Okay, they're not on the same scale as Venice or Niagara Falls, but they still attract tourist traffic. If you're coming from the Netherlands or Germany (as many of the tourists do), or from anywhere in the south of England, you will use the M48 to get there. The M48 doesn't only serve Chepstow.
haymansafc wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 15:50Chepstow is also very roughly the 'half way point' and the first stop is often in that area - anywhere between Monmouth and Severn View Services, depending on mood and time.
If you ever fancy an alternative to the A466, try the B4228.
EDITED TYPO