red routes, is there any info on requirements

The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.

There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).

Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.

Moderator: Site Management Team

Post Reply
forestgump
Member
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri May 22, 2020 09:48

red routes, is there any info on requirements

Post by forestgump »

From what I can see red routes seem to be virtually unregulated in terms of critera that must be met before a LA can impose one, can anyone point me to official guidance?
I am refering to the temporary red route throughout Epping Forest, it is about to expire and so NEPP has put a new permanent red route out for "consulation" same roads, same red lines but different reasons from the temporary under cover of Covid one!
User avatar
KeithW
Member
Posts: 19202
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 13:25
Location: Marton-In-Cleveland North Yorks

Re: red routes, is there any info on requirements

Post by KeithW »

Usually its done by a Traffic Regulation Order by the local council.

You will find an example here for Clifton Drive North, Lytham St Annes.
https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/roads-par ... ders-tros/

TRO's may be temporary or permanent.
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35754
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: red routes, is there any info on requirements

Post by Bryn666 »

Worth reiterating that Red Routes wouldn't be necessary if drivers could have behaved on conventional yellows.

Since 2016 they simply require a TRO/TMO in London. Previously they required DfT approval outside of London due to the signs being non-prescribed but now they can be used anywhere.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
User avatar
M4Simon
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 10121
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2002 22:35
Location: WGC, Herts
Contact:

Re: red routes, is there any info on requirements

Post by M4Simon »

Bryn666 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 15:08 Worth reiterating that Red Routes wouldn't be necessary if drivers could have behaved on conventional yellows.

Since 2016 they simply require a TRO/TMO in London. Previously they required DfT approval outside of London due to the signs being non-prescribed but now they can be used anywhere.
Even here :o
20211010_111547.jpg
I'll leave it for others to identify where this is and will edit this post in due course.

Simon
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!

Please contact me if you want to know more
Micro The Maniac
Member
Posts: 1175
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 13:14
Location: Gone

Re: red routes, is there any info on requirements

Post by Micro The Maniac »

Bryn666 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 15:08 Worth reiterating that Red Routes wouldn't be necessary if drivers could have behaved on conventional yellows.
It's not that simple, is it...

A Red Route means "No stopping". Period. No exceptions.

Double yellows mean "No waiting" but do permit loading/unloading unless signed to the contrary, and blue-badge holders are permitted to stop/park on them (subject to other restrictions).

Whether Red Routes were needed or Clearway was enough is perhaps a more legitimate question?
User avatar
jervi
Member
Posts: 1596
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 16:29
Location: West Sussex

Re: red routes, is there any info on requirements

Post by jervi »

Micro The Maniac wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:00
Bryn666 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 15:08 Worth reiterating that Red Routes wouldn't be necessary if drivers could have behaved on conventional yellows.
A Red Route means "No stopping". Period. No exceptions.

Double yellows mean "No waiting" but do permit loading/unloading unless signed to the contrary, and blue-badge holders are permitted to stop/park on them (subject to other restrictions).
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.14631 ... 384!8i8192
Why not have both! No waiting or you will be towed, but also no stopping. However the lack of lines on the offside means there are no restrictions there?

Also I thought that the Red route clearway sign had to be located at the start of the double red lines, although here they are about 30m out. Clearly they painted the double reds over the double yellows, which don't require a sign at the start.
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35754
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: red routes, is there any info on requirements

Post by Bryn666 »

Micro The Maniac wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:00
Bryn666 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 15:08 Worth reiterating that Red Routes wouldn't be necessary if drivers could have behaved on conventional yellows.
It's not that simple, is it...

A Red Route means "No stopping". Period. No exceptions.

Double yellows mean "No waiting" but do permit loading/unloading unless signed to the contrary, and blue-badge holders are permitted to stop/park on them (subject to other restrictions).

Whether Red Routes were needed or Clearway was enough is perhaps a more legitimate question?
Red Routes replaced many of London's Urban Clearways, which were an additional peak time restriction on top of conventional waiting restrictions. The lack of compliance and political need to be "seen to do something about congestion" is why they were introduced.

A conventional Clearway only applies to the main carriageway so footways aren't covered. It also is an absolute prohibition on stopping whereas a Red Route allows specific classes of vehicle to pick up or set down passengers.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
User avatar
Chris5156
Deputy Treasurer
Posts: 16908
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2001 21:50
Location: Hampshire
Contact:

Re: red routes, is there any info on requirements

Post by Chris5156 »

Bryn666 wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:53
Micro The Maniac wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:00
Bryn666 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 15:08 Worth reiterating that Red Routes wouldn't be necessary if drivers could have behaved on conventional yellows.
It's not that simple, is it...

A Red Route means "No stopping". Period. No exceptions.

Double yellows mean "No waiting" but do permit loading/unloading unless signed to the contrary, and blue-badge holders are permitted to stop/park on them (subject to other restrictions).

Whether Red Routes were needed or Clearway was enough is perhaps a more legitimate question?
Red Routes replaced many of London's Urban Clearways, which were an additional peak time restriction on top of conventional waiting restrictions. The lack of compliance and political need to be "seen to do something about congestion" is why they were introduced.

A conventional Clearway only applies to the main carriageway so footways aren't covered. It also is an absolute prohibition on stopping whereas a Red Route allows specific classes of vehicle to pick up or set down passengers.
Interestingly there was already a campaign pushing for “red routes” to speed up traffic in London, but when the DTp picked up the idea in the early 1990s (a time when they urgently wanted to be seen doing something positive to help traffic flow in London, following the cancellation of all London-wide road building and widening plans in 1990) they were adamant that they must not be red. Initial sketches showed amber edge markings and signs. It’s not clear how that would have looked under orange sodium lighting, or whether it would have been different enough to yellow edge lines, but at some point someone must have caved in because when they finally appeared they ended up red.
Post Reply