A64 York to Barton Le Willows dualling

The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.

There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).

Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.

Moderator: Site Management Team

Post Reply
NICK 647063
Member
Posts: 1717
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 17:48
Location: Leeds

A64 York to Barton Le Willows dualling

Post by NICK 647063 »

Hi All

Searched through topics but couldn’t find an actual topic for this scheme! This was originally A64 Hopgrove Junction improvement but after studies showed what we all knew it was the reduction to single carriageway that was the issue east of Hopgrove National Highways finally produced 3 options which are all dualling Hopgrove to Barton Le Willows, 2 offline options and 1 online, no plans are shown yet but I will attach link to very short survey National Highways are running to get feeling about the A64, it’s very short and would be good if you could fill in if you are a user of the A64.

https://planengageuk.alytics.com/nation ... p-feedback
User avatar
Lonewolf
Member
Posts: 3947
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 16:21
Location: Ryedale, North Yorkshire

Re: A64 York to Barton Le Willows dualling

Post by Lonewolf »

Yeah we've had leaflets about this through doors in the Malton area although my mam's had one, I haven't. Still went on and made a few points.
Wolfie

FB me!
Bomag
Member
Posts: 948
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 23:26

Re: A64 York to Barton Le Willows dualling

Post by Bomag »

NICK 647063 wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 21:39 Hi All

what we all knew it was the reduction to single carriageway that was the issue east of Hopgrove .

https://planengageuk.alytics.com/nation ... p-feedback
No, the problem is the local traffic turning on this section, particularly North Lane but also Barr Lane and at Hazelbush. The single carriageway (eastbound) would cope most of the time without them.
NICK 647063
Member
Posts: 1717
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 17:48
Location: Leeds

Re: A64 York to Barton Le Willows dualling

Post by NICK 647063 »

Bomag wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 23:48
NICK 647063 wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 21:39 Hi All

what we all knew it was the reduction to single carriageway that was the issue east of Hopgrove .

https://planengageuk.alytics.com/nation ... p-feedback
No, the problem is the local traffic turning on this section, particularly North Lane but also Barr Lane and at Hazelbush. The single carriageway (eastbound) would cope most of the time without them.
Sorry I’ve grown up with the A64 and totally understand what causes it, yes traffic slows for North Lane but it’s simply the sheer amount of traffic that cannot funnel into the single lane……

How do you explain the westbound queues then? Queues as often at Barton le willows with no junctions causing issues, same westbound at Malton….

The dualling would include removing North Lane junction and Barr lane so it’s a very good plan.
Bomag
Member
Posts: 948
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 23:26

Re: A64 York to Barton Le Willows dualling

Post by Bomag »

The references were about queuing at Hopgrove. The flow breakdown from turning traffic is much more of a problem than it being a single carriageway; I've done enough workshops on Hopgrove to see the measured impact on flows. With all the money spent on the many junction schemes the limiting factor has gone from the roundabout to the turning movements. Dualling the A64 on this section will improve capacity and also (assuming it will be designed to 120kph) increase average speeds, but being a single carriageway road is not currently the limiting factor.

As for queuing on the WB Whitwell D2 section, the D2 section is not long enough to get to free flow conditions, compounded by the geometry and junction. Therefore you have queues of traffic in lane 2 trying to merge back into lane 1 without the gaps being available to maintain free flow conditions, resulting in a massive reduction in capacity which won't clear until traffic flow is well bellow S2 capacity. Going eastbound the hill causes a significant reduction in speed for anything large/heavy in lane 1 so creating a higher speed differential and more opportunity for traffic to meagre back into lane 1, even with the god awful vertical and horizontal alignment.

Sorry, living locally does not replace highway engineering knowledge.
User avatar
Lonewolf
Member
Posts: 3947
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 16:21
Location: Ryedale, North Yorkshire

Re: A64 York to Barton Le Willows dualling

Post by Lonewolf »

Bomag wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 23:44 The references were about queuing at Hopgrove. The flow breakdown from turning traffic is much more of a problem than it being a single carriageway; I've done enough workshops on Hopgrove to see the measured impact on flows. With all the money spent on the many junction schemes the limiting factor has gone from the roundabout to the turning movements. Dualling the A64 on this section will improve capacity and also (assuming it will be designed to 120kph) increase average speeds, but being a single carriageway road is not currently the limiting factor.

As for queuing on the WB Whitwell D2 section, the D2 section is not long enough to get to free flow conditions, compounded by the geometry and junction. Therefore you have queues of traffic in lane 2 trying to merge back into lane 1 without the gaps being available to maintain free flow conditions, resulting in a massive reduction in capacity which won't clear until traffic flow is well bellow S2 capacity. Going eastbound the hill causes a significant reduction in speed for anything large/heavy in lane 1 so creating a higher speed differential and more opportunity for traffic to meagre back into lane 1, even with the god awful vertical and horizontal alignment.

Sorry, living locally does not replace highway engineering knowledge.
Well I live locally and have spent my working life on roads albeit as a user not an engineer.

I've been saying for years that one of the big problems on this stretch of the A64 is Stockton lane end crossroads (Towthorpe Moor Lane/Common Lane). Because the traffic is already slow, folks have a bad habit of stopping to let people out of the side roads which has a knock back effect on the A64 which of course they are blissfully unaware of :evil:. The same happens to a lesser degree at North Lane and Sand Hutton Lane end.

It wouldn't happen if the road wasn't already overloaded.
Wolfie

FB me!
User avatar
Lonewolf
Member
Posts: 3947
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 16:21
Location: Ryedale, North Yorkshire

Re: A64 York to Barton Le Willows dualling

Post by Lonewolf »

As a matter of interest, the dualled section at Barton Hill has been there since 1936. I have no idea why a random bit of dual carriageway would be built in the North Yorkshire backwoods that long ago. Anybody know?
Wolfie

FB me!
User avatar
KeithW
Member
Posts: 19202
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 13:25
Location: Marton-In-Cleveland North Yorks

Re: A64 York to Barton Le Willows dualling

Post by KeithW »

What documentation there is about the scheme can be found at.
https://highwaysengland.co.uk/our-work/ ... -hopgrove/

Its pretty much at the early consultation and survey stage and it seems unlikely that any spades will hit the ground before 2025.
User avatar
KeithW
Member
Posts: 19202
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 13:25
Location: Marton-In-Cleveland North Yorks

Re: A64 York to Barton Le Willows dualling

Post by KeithW »

Lonewolf wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 07:39 As a matter of interest, the dualled section at Barton Hill has been there since 1936. I have no idea why a random bit of dual carriageway would be built in the North Yorkshire backwoods that long ago. Anybody know?
I believe the road at that point was both steep and narrow, there was also a level crossing for the railway. A new section of road was built offline . There were a lot of road improvement plans in the 1930's that were dropped when WW2 came along and I suspect any further work on the A64 fell into that group.
https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/maps/ind ... 15&layer=4

The railway station was closed in 1930 so if nothing else the new road meant there was no need to keep a crossing keeper on site.
Rillington
Member
Posts: 1976
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 19:10
Location: Manchester

Re: A64 York to Barton Le Willows dualling

Post by Rillington »

as were all the stations between York and Malton although i think that Haxby station has finally got mots of the funding required to re-open it after 90+ years of it being closed. I wonder if its reopening would take any traffic off the A64?

Back on topic, and the planned from around 1990 were for a full dualling all the way to the start of the Malton bypass. It would have been built on-line.

This does need to happen and I also think that dualling the full length of rod from Hop Grove to Malton should also take place.
Rillington
Member
Posts: 1976
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 19:10
Location: Manchester

Re: A64 York to Barton Le Willows dualling

Post by Rillington »

KeithW wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 08:55 What documentation there is about the scheme can be found at.
https://highwaysengland.co.uk/our-work/ ... -hopgrove/

Its pretty much at the early consultation and survey stage and it seems unlikely that any spades will hit the ground before 2025.
That's probably not a bad prediction.

And from what you, and others who live locally can gather, how likely is it that this project will actually happen?
NICK 647063
Member
Posts: 1717
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 17:48
Location: Leeds

Re: A64 York to Barton Le Willows dualling

Post by NICK 647063 »

Rillington wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 14:07
KeithW wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 08:55 What documentation there is about the scheme can be found at.
https://highwaysengland.co.uk/our-work/ ... -hopgrove/

Its pretty much at the early consultation and survey stage and it seems unlikely that any spades will hit the ground before 2025.
That's probably not a bad prediction.

And from what you, and others who live locally can gather, how likely is it that this project will actually happen?
Well it was originally down to be completed as roads period 2 before 2025 but then was moved to period 3 2025 to 2030 so definitely no spades in ground before 2025!

As for how likely it’s got to compete against other schemes like loft house junction and A1 Darrington to Red house, I do think it will go ahead as it’s got pretty much full local support and you can only kick the can down the road so far and this seems to have been put off forever! My only other concern is the lack of any mention of the other 3 mile single carriageway to Malton from Welburn, an obvious bottleneck to leave…… oh and the bypass of Rillington seems to have gone very quiet! That’s one that really needs sorting as queues on a Friday evening are often back to the A169 for Rillington traffic lights if you then have a full dual carriageway from York to Malton the traffic lights there are going to create far more queues.
Rillington
Member
Posts: 1976
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 19:10
Location: Manchester

Re: A64 York to Barton Le Willows dualling

Post by Rillington »

as has the proposed bypass of Sherburn.

And i totally agree with your comments re Welburn to Malton. This stretch also needs to be dualled as part of an overall dualling project between Hop Grove and Malton.
User avatar
Lonewolf
Member
Posts: 3947
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 16:21
Location: Ryedale, North Yorkshire

Re: A64 York to Barton Le Willows dualling

Post by Lonewolf »

There was yet another death on the Welburn - Malton stretch the other day. Once again A64 closed for hours.
Wolfie

FB me!
Post Reply