Probably replaced by, you know, the original plans for the ORR et al rather than the desperate bodge that's there now.Chris5156 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 21:11The entire junction complex, covering M1 J21, the junction with the Outer Ring Road, the two horrible signalised roundabout monstrosities on Narborough Road, and the various other signalised accessories leading to business parks and retail parks, would ideally be razed to the ground with a targeted bombing campaign and replaced with something else altogether. It's an absolute failure of land use and transport planning.
Which dumbbell or two-bridge roundabout GSJ in England would you prioritise for a freeflow right turn?
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Re: Which dumbbell or roundabout GSJ in England would you prioritise for a freeflow right turn?
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Re: Which dumbbell or roundabout GSJ in England would you prioritise for a freeflow right turn?
I know too many people in Colney Heath and Roestock to support that.thatapanydude wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:50I would agree though I would tackle this through either a new dual carriageway from the A1(M) j2 to M25 J22 broadly following the line of Coursers Road or upgrading the A414 and A1081 with some GSJ and widening.M4Simon wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 09:27My priority here would be M25 westbound to A1(M) northbound. It's a long way round that roundabout to turn north.thatapanydude wrote: ↑Sun Nov 07, 2021 00:38 South Mimms: A1 north to M25 east and likewise M25 west to A1 south.
If I'm going from the A1(M) southbound to M25 westbound (and I do, reasonably frequently), I usually go via the A414 and A1081 to M25 J22. That's usually a bit quicker than the A414/A405 North Orbital route to M25 J21.
Simon
When heading towards the A1(M) northbound, I'll either take the A405/A414 or the A1081 or the A1(M) depending on which my phone thinks will be quickest at the time. The left turn at South Mimms from M25 onto the A1(M) is usually ok. It is the right turns that cause the problems on that roundabout.
The A1081 route towards the A1 is painful as it involves nearly a full circuit of the London Colney roundabout. Going the other way, it is a quick left onto the A1081 from the A414, nearly always quicker than fighting to stay on the A414 and negotiating Park Street.
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Re: Which dumbbell or roundabout GSJ in England would you prioritise for a freeflow right turn?
This was included in the similar poll for stackabouts that I made years ago:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19910
Re: Which dumbbell or roundabout GSJ in England would you prioritise for a freeflow right turn?
Bignells Corner would benefit if just this was done. It also has the benefit of using that Ringway 3 stump...
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Re: Which dumbbell or roundabout GSJ in England would you prioritise for a freeflow right turn?
I would hope this would be part of the Darrington-Redhouse and Doncaster bypass scheme, that junction as you say often tails back along lane 1 almost as far as Warmsworth.jackal wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 16:15This was included in the similar poll for stackabouts that I made years ago:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19910
Re: Which dumbbell or roundabout GSJ in England would you prioritise for a freeflow right turn?
Quite a few obvious omissions in there.
M8 East <> M73 South - Needed since the M74 was completed to bypass the M8 through Glasgow
A725 North <> M74 South - After years of roadworks it's no better than it was before, if it wasn't for the above the extra few miles via M73 would be worth considering.
Edit: Just realised you had M58<>M6N on the options.
M8 East <> M73 South - Needed since the M74 was completed to bypass the M8 through Glasgow
A725 North <> M74 South - After years of roadworks it's no better than it was before, if it wasn't for the above the extra few miles via M73 would be worth considering.
Edit: Just realised you had M58<>M6N on the options.
Re: Which dumbbell or roundabout GSJ in England would you prioritise for a freeflow right turn?
I agree these links are required. I've edited the title to make it clearer that the thread's about dumbbells and two-bridge roundabout GSJs rather than stackabouts. (The poll phrasing is unchanged.)C83 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 21:18 Quite a few obvious omissions in there.
M8 East <> M73 South - Needed since the M74 was completed to bypass the M8 through Glasgow
A725 North <> M74 South - After years of roadworks it's no better than it was before, if it wasn't for the above the extra few miles via M73 would be worth considering.
Last edited by jackal on Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Which dumbbell or roundabout GSJ in England would you prioritise for a freeflow right turn?
Yes, that's the scheme I had in my head. One of the issues is that the weaving length to J24 is barely 2km, though I think it could be made to work by nudging the link road a little closer to the back of the MSA and tightening some radii.
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Re: Which dumbbell or roundabout GSJ in England would you prioritise for a freeflow right turn?
Good point, and note as well that this plan requires 1km of new M25 AC carriageway, as well as the link road. I like the idea of course but it may not be cost effective compared to putting in a loop in the SW quadrant of J23 like Tarbock Island (the proposals for Brook St and Simister are similar).
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Re: Which dumbbell or roundabout GSJ in England would you prioritise for a freeflow right turn?
Not if the link to A1(M) saved one bridge and diverged on the right (it's OK ... only kiddin' !).
Yes, the loop's nearly as good, and much cheaper. The opposite direction could still take Bryn's route, requiring no structures and little land. It's not an essential element, but left turners then need not contend with going past the Services arm.I like the idea of course but it may not be cost effective compared to putting in a loop in the SW quadrant of J23 like Tarbock Island (the proposals for Brook St and Simister are similar).
edited to correct M1 to A1(M).
Last edited by Peter Freeman on Wed Nov 17, 2021 22:36, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Which dumbbell or roundabout GSJ in England would you prioritise for a freeflow right turn?
A1(M)Peter Freeman wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:30Not if the link to M1 saved one bridge and diverged on the right (it's OK ... only kiddin' !).
The NE corner of the roundabout, where the access to the services joins, is easily the busiest and most congested part. Anything that gets some traffic off that part will do a lot to relieve the whole junction, so a left turn bypass would probably be easy to justify in terms of journey time improvements.Yes, the loop's nearly as good, and much cheaper. The opposite direction could still take Bryn's route, requiring no structures and little land. It's not an essential element, but left turners then need not contend with going past the Services arm.I like the idea of course but it may not be cost effective compared to putting in a loop in the SW quadrant of J23 like Tarbock Island (the proposals for Brook St and Simister are similar).
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Re: Which dumbbell or two-bridge roundabout GSJ in England would you prioritise for a freeflow right turn?
Is it too soon to nominate M42 j5a...?
Re: Which dumbbell or roundabout GSJ in England would you prioritise for a freeflow right turn?
How bad is it these days? I used to live in that area and it was rarely more than irritating, as so much traffic to/from the west goes via the A414. Obviously free flow would be better, but I wouldn't have it very high up my priority listChris5156 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 13:30 The NE corner of the roundabout, where the access to the services joins, is easily the busiest and most congested part. Anything that gets some traffic off that part will do a lot to relieve the whole junction, so a left turn bypass would probably be easy to justify in terms of journey time improvements.
Re: Which dumbbell or roundabout GSJ in England would you prioritise for a freeflow right turn?
I'm not a regular user any more - in fact it's probably heading for two years since I last went round there. But when I did use it semi-regularly the NE corner always seemed the worst. Simple left turns from A1(M) to M25 would queue back onto the sliproad and more than once I've spent the best part of an hour queueing to leave the services car park.Herned wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 13:25How bad is it these days? I used to live in that area and it was rarely more than irritating, as so much traffic to/from the west goes via the A414. Obviously free flow would be better, but I wouldn't have it very high up my priority listChris5156 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 13:30 The NE corner of the roundabout, where the access to the services joins, is easily the busiest and most congested part. Anything that gets some traffic off that part will do a lot to relieve the whole junction, so a left turn bypass would probably be easy to justify in terms of journey time improvements.
Chris
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Re: Which dumbbell or two-bridge roundabout GSJ in England would you prioritise for a freeflow right turn?
The design for that already has a freeflow right. There are no conflicting movements. (The fact that it goes around two roundabouts for no obvious reason means that it can't be taken at speed, but that doesn't prevent it being freeflow because there's no situation in which you'd ever have to stop for traffic.)
Re: Which dumbbell or two-bridge roundabout GSJ in England would you prioritise for a freeflow right turn?
Fine for now, but the second phase will see a service area built off the junction, north facing sliproads and signalisationais523 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 21:15The design for that already has a freeflow right. There are no conflicting movements. (The fact that it goes around two roundabouts for no obvious reason means that it can't be taken at speed, but that doesn't prevent it being freeflow because there's no situation in which you'd ever have to stop for traffic.)
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Re: Which dumbbell or two-bridge roundabout GSJ in England would you prioritise for a freeflow right turn?
The two roundabouts will be complete rather than dogbonised, so the right turn has a give way at both roundabouts, as per the general arrangement. (I suspect the left turn will give way as well, though the drawing nonsensically omits the dashed lines.)ais523 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 21:15The design for that already has a freeflow right. There are no conflicting movements. (The fact that it goes around two roundabouts for no obvious reason means that it can't be taken at speed, but that doesn't prevent it being freeflow because there's no situation in which you'd ever have to stop for traffic.)
https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... _Plans.pdf
Re: Which dumbbell or two-bridge roundabout GSJ in England would you prioritise for a freeflow right turn?
That's going to be a complete horror show when the northern slips and MSA inevitably go in. Funny how on another thread freeflow interchanges that remove vehicle conflicts and emissions so tick two boxes are being criticised as too complex and dangerous but providing absolute dog crap like this with substandard weaving lengths, because the M42 really needs more weaving and induced traffic, is all fine.jackal wrote: ↑Sun Nov 21, 2021 18:56The two roundabouts will be complete rather than dogbonised, so the right turn has a give way at both roundabouts, as per the general arrangement. (I suspect the left turn will give way as well, though the drawing nonsensically omits the dashed lines.)ais523 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 21:15The design for that already has a freeflow right. There are no conflicting movements. (The fact that it goes around two roundabouts for no obvious reason means that it can't be taken at speed, but that doesn't prevent it being freeflow because there's no situation in which you'd ever have to stop for traffic.)
https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... _Plans.pdf
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