A1079 dualling

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Rillington
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A1079 dualling

Post by Rillington »

Should any parts of the A1079 be converted into a dual carriageway? And if so, should it be online or on a new alignment?
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stu531
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Re: A1079 dualling

Post by stu531 »

Isn't the argument as much of an economic and strategic one, as it is anything else? AADT isn't particularly high (10-15k AADT) except around Gamston Bar I guess, but East Yorks seems to have such relatively small amounts of investment it'd arguably part of the levelling up agenda (if there is such a thing in reality).

It would stimulate some kind of economic activity across that area and would provide an alternative to the M62 (which isn't its busiest part).
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KeithW
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Re: A1079 dualling

Post by KeithW »

I am not sold on the idea that it would do anything much to boost the local economy, its 40 miles or so and takes about an hour. If I was doing anything it would be to build local bypasses of Bishop Burton and Shiptonthorpe.
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Re: A1079 dualling

Post by ForestChav »

It'd be a good link from Hull to the A1 north. Considering the main alignment is Roman and doesn't go through many places it probably wouldn't take too much effort.
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KeithW
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Re: A1079 dualling

Post by KeithW »

ForestChav wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 22:33 It'd be a good link from Hull to the A1 north. Considering the main alignment is Roman and doesn't go through many places it probably wouldn't take too much effort.
Would it really make that much difference ? Personally I doubt it but lets suppose it does and we end up with an extra 10k of traffic to York. That's when the fun really starts. Firstly the ring road is already stresssed and the only D2 route to the A1(M) is the A64 which is headed in the wrong direction and is already pretty busy. The only road heading in the right direction is the A59, another Roman Road which is already maxed out. So to make this worthwhile you would have to dual the entire route and spend some serious money.

Meanwhile in the real world traffic will use the high speed route that already exists between Hull and the A1(M) which is the M62 - A1(M) which is 70 miles of high quality Motorway instead of 56 miles of either existing S2 or 56 miles of a new HQDC which would cost a lot of money to build. Another major factor of course is that the D2 A63 runs from the M62 into the docks. Getting from the A1079 to there is another problem entirely.
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Now my personal pipe dream which I would like to see come about is the dualling of the A19 between Thirsk and York which would provide an alternate HQDC to Tyneside and Scotland , now that's a dream I could buy into, in fact extend it to the M62 and you have a good quality D2/Motorway route from Seaton Burn to the M1.

A19 to M62
M62 to M18
M18 to M1

Better yet send it over the Humber Bridge and down an upgraded A15.A17/A10 to the M11 and we finally have the fabled East Coast Motorway :)
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Re: A1079 dualling

Post by Osthagen »

ForestChav wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 22:33 It'd be a good link from Hull to the A1 north. Considering the main alignment is Roman and doesn't go through many places it probably wouldn't take too much effort.
Combining it with an A19 upgrade to D2 between Thrisk and York would be a good idea, to form a Tees-Humber strategic route.
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Rillington
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Re: A1079 dualling

Post by Rillington »

Dualling the A19 between York and Thirsk would be quite easy to do, with bypasses needed to be built around Skelton and Shipton.
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Re: A1079 dualling

Post by Rillington »

KeithW wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 21:57 I am not sold on the idea that it would do anything much to boost the local economy, its 40 miles or so and takes about an hour. If I was doing anything it would be to build local bypasses of Bishop Burton and Shiptonthorpe.
Bypassing Shiptonthorpe was proposed in the Roads to Prosperity document and it certainly would have made sense, and any bypass should be dualled, thereby providing a dual carriageway from the A614 to Hayton.

And if you did dual the entire road, you would have to bypass Bishop Burton and also Hayton in addition to Shiptonthorpe. Plus you's probably have to build it in a new alignment between the Pocklington turn-off roundabout and Wilberfoss.
Last edited by Rillington on Thu Nov 11, 2021 14:52, edited 2 times in total.
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KeithW
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Re: A1079 dualling

Post by KeithW »

Rillington wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 15:09 Dualling the A19 between York and Thirsk would be quite easy to do, with bypasses needed to be built around Skelton and Shipton.
Getting approval would not be quite so easy as AADF is under 10k and then there is the matter of the junction with the A168 which would need a major rebuild to handle any significant increase, not to mention the York Ring Road which struggles at peak times as it is. Connecting two new D2 roads into an S2 Ring Road replete with roundabouts and shopping outlets is not a recipe for success.
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Re: A1079 dualling

Post by JammyDodge »

Osthagen wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 13:53 Combining it with an A19 upgrade to D2 between Thrisk and York would be a good idea, to form a Tees-Humber strategic route.
An alternate solution would be:
  • A1079 upgraded to D2 from the Humber Bridge to York
  • Freeflow link to the A64W and from A64E
  • Upgrade the A64 from the A1(M) - A1079 to D3, while straightening it out a bit (Also C+D lanes between the A1237 and A1056 junctions
  • Freeflow link to the A1(M)N and from the A1(M)S
Its not necessarily the "Dream", but would achieve similar goals of a Tees-Humber route, while costing less
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Re: A1079 dualling

Post by jackal »

For Hull to York I'd maybe look at improving the A63 and A19 from M62 J37, which would be an awful lot shorter. The A19 is also busier than the A1079.
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Re: A1079 dualling

Post by NICK 647063 »

KeithW wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 15:53
Rillington wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 15:09 Dualling the A19 between York and Thirsk would be quite easy to do, with bypasses needed to be built around Skelton and Shipton.
Getting approval would not be quite so easy as AADF is under 10k and then there is the matter of the junction with the A168 which would need a major rebuild to handle any significant increase, not to mention the York Ring Road which struggles at peak times as it is. Connecting two new D2 roads into an S2 Ring Road replete with roundabouts and shopping outlets is not a recipe for success.
The A19 is probably the last road in the area that would ever need dualling! its not busy the A168 takes the strategic traffic to the A1(M) which leaves only local traffic on the A19 to York, the A19 needs 2 bypasses and thats it....

As for the A1079 again not really needed, maybe a few bypasses and overtaking sections, you simply couldn't justify dualling these while the A64 is handling double and is battling for improvements.

I'm not sure why you would wish to attract more traffic towards York to add to the congestion issues when the M62 and A1(M) already create that link, i think the fact the A19 and A1079 were both detrunked shows that these are not strategic routes.
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Re: A1079 dualling

Post by KeithW »

Oh dear. I did describe dualling the routes from York to Thirsk and dualling the A15 from the Humber Bridge to East Anglia as a pipe dream and even added a smiley face. That said we really should be looking at improving the roads in Lincolnshire as many towns really are poorly linked into the national network. In all seriousness a proper upgrade of the A15 to Lincoln and getting rid of the roundabouts on the A46 would in my opinion be a sensible thing to do. We brits seem to have some sort of fetish when it comes to roundabouts, I see roundabouts at places such as the A66 at Cargo Fleet that have gone through multiple iterations when its clearly obvious that a GSJ is needed AND there is space to build one !

The latest version is a throughabout and its construction took months - go figure.
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Re: A1079 dualling

Post by JammyDodge »

KeithW wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 09:16 Oh dear. I did describe dualling the routes from York to Thirsk and dualling the A15 from the Humber Bridge to East Anglia as a pipe dream and even added a smiley face. That said we really should be looking at improving the roads in Lincolnshire as many towns really are poorly linked into the national network. In all seriousness a proper upgrade of the A15 to Lincoln and getting rid of the roundabouts on the A46 would in my opinion be a sensible thing to do. We brits seem to have some sort of fetish when it comes to roundabouts, I see roundabouts at places such as the A66 at Cargo Fleet that have gone through multiple iterations when its clearly obvious that a GSJ is needed AND there is space to build one !
We have an obsession with roundabouts as the solution to everything. They aren't. At a certain point, a roundabout with 3/4 arms should be a set of lights. Others deserve a GSJ.
Another thing we don't seem keen on is Grade separated S2. Literally everywhere else in Europe builds them but us
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Re: A1079 dualling

Post by Rillington »

NICK 647063 wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 22:17 As for the A1079 again not really needed, maybe a few bypasses and overtaking sections, you simply couldn't justify dualling these while the A64 is handling double and is battling for improvements.
Where do you think these bypasses and overtaking sections are needed on the A1079?
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Re: A1079 dualling

Post by jabbaboy »

jackal wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 19:16 For Hull to York I'd maybe look at improving the A63 and A19 from M62 J37, which would be an awful lot shorter. The A19 is also busier than the A1079.
This, if anything I'd say an M18 extension as D2 instead with a WS2 from the M18 extension running along the A63 route if we're building roads in that corridor.

Would give some relief to the A1 around Darrington and also the A64 between York and Leeds for people travelling from the South to York and the Yorkshire Coast for holidays.
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Re: A1079 dualling

Post by Glenn A »

I'd much rather spend the money on improving the A64 from York to Scarborough. The A19 from Thirsk to York isn't particularly busy and explains, barring the by pass of Easingwold, why it has seen little improvement compared with the A19 north of Thirsk.
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Re: A1079 dualling

Post by KeithW »

jabbaboy wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 22:34
jackal wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 19:16 For Hull to York I'd maybe look at improving the A63 and A19 from M62 J37, which would be an awful lot shorter. The A19 is also busier than the A1079.
This, if anything I'd say an M18 extension as D2 instead with a WS2 from the M18 extension running along the A63 route if we're building roads in that corridor.

Would give some relief to the A1 around Darrington and also the A64 between York and Leeds for people travelling from the South to York and the Yorkshire Coast for holidays.
The A63 east ofA1(M) has zero chance of a major upgrade. The AADF varies between 6 and 10k and there is already a high quality road from Hull to the A1(M) in the form of the M62. The A1079 between Hull and York on the other hand has a traffic level that is pushing 20k and its actually the shortest route

Hull to Thirsk via the A1079 and A19 - 63 miles
Hull to Thirsk via the A63 /A19 - 75 miles

Want to know the fastest route - its the M62/A1(M) - 30 minutes quicker and only 12 miles longer at 87 miles.

As for reaching the Yorkshire coast from West Yorkshire I just dont see it. The A63 to the M1 and then the A1(M)/A19 will do the job nicely but you will still end up on the A64 unless you prefer Bridlington in which case your alternative route is M62/A614
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Re: A1079 dualling

Post by KeithW »

Glenn A wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 16:09 I'd much rather spend the money on improving the A64 from York to Scarborough. The A19 from Thirsk to York isn't particularly busy and explains, barring the by pass of Easingwold, why it has seen little improvement compared with the A19 north of Thirsk.
I am with you although to be honest my normal route would be, and has been many times, the A1079 and A19. Hopgrove can be a pain but I usually just follow the A19 through York - its typically faster.
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Re: A1079 dualling

Post by jabbaboy »

KeithW wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 17:21 The A63 east ofA1(M) has zero chance of a major upgrade. The AADF varies between 6 and 10k and there is already a high quality road from Hull to the A1(M) in the form of the M62. The A1079 between Hull and York on the other hand has a traffic level that is pushing 20k and its actually the shortest route

Hull to Thirsk via the A1079 and A19 - 63 miles
Hull to Thirsk via the A63 /A19 - 75 miles

Want to know the fastest route - its the M62/A1(M) - 30 minutes quicker and only 12 miles longer at 87 miles.

As for reaching the Yorkshire coast from West Yorkshire I just dont see it. The A63 to the M1 and then the A1(M)/A19 will do the job nicely but you will still end up on the A64 unless you prefer Bridlington in which case your alternative route is M62/A614
Yeah no arguments, both routes don't really need an upgrade being honest.

If any route should be upgraded other than the A64 which is the obvious choice, I'd go for the A59 towards the A1(M) even if it's just a bypass of Kirk Hammerton and sorting out turning lanes for all the junctions with a few crawler lanes. If you made that a better road, the A19 to Thirsk would be pretty much redundant and could easily be downgraded. There's only 5 minutes or so difference between the routes as they are.
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