A19 dualling between Selby and the A64

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Rillington
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A19 dualling between Selby and the A64

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In my A1079 dualling discussion, it was suggested that the A19 between Selby and York is busier than the A1079. Therefore, is there a need to dual the A19 between the Selby bypass and the A64?
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KeithW
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Re: A19 dualling between Selby and the A64

Post by KeithW »

Rillington wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 15:27 In my A1079 dualling discussion, it was suggested that the A19 between Selby and York is busier than the A1079. Therefore, is there a need to dual the A19 between the Selby bypass and the A64?
No, the pain with the route was always getting through Selby over the old toll bridge. Now the bypass is there its a doddle. Traffic on the A19 between the M62 and Selby is under 12k and north of Selby to the A64 its about the same as the A1079 and with few real hot spots moves pretty well, the congestion point is Hopgrove, especially in summer.

Before the A1 was improved between Darrington and Dishforth my bank holiday route was the M18/M62/A19. Anything was better than Wetherby even after the roundabout was grubbed up.
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Re: A19 dualling between Selby and the A64

Post by NICK 647063 »

Rillington wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 15:27 In my A1079 dualling discussion, it was suggested that the A19 between Selby and York is busier than the A1079. Therefore, is there a need to dual the A19 between the Selby bypass and the A64?
The only thing proposed on the A19 is a bypass for Escrick as part of the new town planned south of it, even the bypass will be single carriageway…….

The only roads in the area that need dualling are the A1237 which is now planned and the A64 York to Malton.
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Re: A19 dualling between Selby and the A64

Post by jgharston »

KeithW wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 17:50 No, the pain with the route was always getting through Selby over the old toll bridge. Now the bypass is there its a doddle. Traffic on the A19 between the M62 and Selby is under 12k and north of Selby to the A64 its about the same as the A1079 and with few real hot spots moves pretty well, the congestion point is Hopgrove, especially in summer.
What would help is the A19 through Selby no longer being called the A19. Too many times I've driven between Doncaster and York and have followed the signage for A19 because "it's the A19 for York/Doncaster".
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jackal
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Re: A19 dualling between Selby and the A64

Post by jackal »

jgharston wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 17:14
KeithW wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 17:50 No, the pain with the route was always getting through Selby over the old toll bridge. Now the bypass is there its a doddle. Traffic on the A19 between the M62 and Selby is under 12k and north of Selby to the A64 its about the same as the A1079 and with few real hot spots moves pretty well, the congestion point is Hopgrove, especially in summer.
What would help is the A19 through Selby no longer being called the A19.
Yes, it is bizarre, especially as the A63 east of Selby is a relatively minor and jaggy route that should hardly take priority over the A19.
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Re: A19 dualling between Selby and the A64

Post by KeithW »

jgharston wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 17:14
What would help is the A19 through Selby no longer being called the A19. Too many times I've driven between Doncaster and York and have followed the signage for A19 because "it's the A19 for York/Doncaster".
Which signage where ?

On the A19 at Thirsk the sign says
York A19
Thirsk
Scarborough
(A170)

At Hopgrove on the A64 the sign has the following
Hull (A1079) Selby (A19)
York (A1036)

The signs on the M62 say
Selby
Doncaster
A19

Which is of course accurate

Head up the slip road and the sign quite correctly directs you either north to Selby or south to Doncaster

The A63 approaching Selby has a sign pointing straight ahead for York A19 and right for Doncaster A19

Now there is I suppose some scope for confusion in that most traffic uses the Selby bypass so when you reach the eastern end there is a sign reading Town Centre A19 for the left turn while straight on reads 'Barlby Osgodby A19'

So if you are suggesting the A19 THROUGH Selby should be renumbered I would have some sympathy but I dont recall any signage that says 'York Doncaster A19' Nor would I expect to given the A19 starts in Doncaster
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Re: A19 dualling between Selby and the A64

Post by Chris Bertram »

jackal wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 17:20
jgharston wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 17:14
KeithW wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 17:50 No, the pain with the route was always getting through Selby over the old toll bridge. Now the bypass is there its a doddle. Traffic on the A19 between the M62 and Selby is under 12k and north of Selby to the A64 its about the same as the A1079 and with few real hot spots moves pretty well, the congestion point is Hopgrove, especially in summer.
What would help is the A19 through Selby no longer being called the A19.
Yes, it is bizarre, especially as the A63 east of Selby is a relatively minor and jaggy route that should hardly take priority over the A19.
It is, however, primary all the way to Howden, and then again from the end of M62 all the way to Hell Hull. A19 is non-primary north and south of Selby.
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Re: A19 dualling between Selby and the A64

Post by KeithW »

jackal wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 17:20
Yes, it is bizarre, especially as the A63 east of Selby is a relatively minor and jaggy route that should hardly take priority over the A19.
Well there is the reality that the A19 heads north south and the A63 runs generally East West but shares the road between the end of the Selby Bypass and Osgodby

Hence this sign.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.78848 ... 8192?hl=en
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Re: A19 dualling between Selby and the A64

Post by jackal »

Chris Bertram wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 18:10
jackal wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 17:20
jgharston wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 17:14
What would help is the A19 through Selby no longer being called the A19.
Yes, it is bizarre, especially as the A63 east of Selby is a relatively minor and jaggy route that should hardly take priority over the A19.
It is, however, primary all the way to Howden, and then again from the end of M62 all the way to Hell Hull. A19 is non-primary north and south of Selby.
Really? Pretty sure the signs are green (except the bypassed section in Selby of course).
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Re: A19 dualling between Selby and the A64

Post by Chris Bertram »

jackal wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 18:30
Chris Bertram wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 18:10
jackal wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 17:20
Yes, it is bizarre, especially as the A63 east of Selby is a relatively minor and jaggy route that should hardly take priority over the A19.
It is, however, primary all the way to Howden, and then again from the end of M62 all the way to Hell Hull. A19 is non-primary north and south of Selby.
Really? Pretty sure the signs are green (except the bypassed section in Selby of course).
Hmm, Google Maps shows it as primary, but I don't think it was always so, in fact ISTR it being white-signed between Doncaster and York, presumably to encourage drivers to take A638/A1/A64, but maybe the Selby by-pass changed all that.
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Re: A19 dualling between Selby and the A64

Post by KeithW »

Chris Bertram wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 18:47
Hmm, Google Maps shows it as primary, but I don't think it was always so, in fact ISTR it being white-signed between Doncaster and York, presumably to encourage drivers to take A638/A1/A64, but maybe the Selby by-pass changed all that.
The A19 through Selby is now secondary as the recommended route is along the A63 Selby bypass. The A19 through York is also secondary.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.92157 ... 8192?hl=en
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Re: A19 dualling between Selby and the A64

Post by Chris5156 »

Chris Bertram wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 18:47
jackal wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 18:30
Chris Bertram wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 18:10 It is, however, primary all the way to Howden, and then again from the end of M62 all the way to Hell Hull. A19 is non-primary north and south of Selby.
Really? Pretty sure the signs are green (except the bypassed section in Selby of course).
Hmm, Google Maps shows it as primary, but I don't think it was always so, in fact ISTR it being white-signed between Doncaster and York, presumably to encourage drivers to take A638/A1/A64, but maybe the Selby by-pass changed all that.
I couldn't speak for the A19 between the M62 and Selby, but between Selby and York I thought it had always been primary. I do recall green signs south of Selby too.
jgharston wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 17:14
KeithW wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 17:50 No, the pain with the route was always getting through Selby over the old toll bridge. Now the bypass is there its a doddle. Traffic on the A19 between the M62 and Selby is under 12k and north of Selby to the A64 its about the same as the A1079 and with few real hot spots moves pretty well, the congestion point is Hopgrove, especially in summer.
What would help is the A19 through Selby no longer being called the A19. Too many times I've driven between Doncaster and York and have followed the signage for A19 because "it's the A19 for York/Doncaster".
You'll only end up driving through Selby if you're following the A19 and ignoring everything else on the sign. Approaching the bypass, the A19 may still head into town, but York is clearly signposted around the bypass, complete with A19 in brackets.
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Re: A19 dualling between Selby and the A64

Post by KeithW »

Chris5156 wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 09:18
You'll only end up driving through Selby if you're following the A19 and ignoring everything else on the sign. Approaching the bypass, the A19 may still head into town, but York is clearly signposted around the bypass, complete with A19 in brackets.
Indeed and before the A63 bypass was opened I found my own :)
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Re: A19 dualling between Selby and the A64

Post by jgharston »

KeithW wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 18:06
jgharston wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 17:14
What would help is the A19 through Selby no longer being called the A19. Too many times I've driven between Doncaster and York and have followed the signage for A19 because "it's the A19 for York/Doncaster".
Which signage where ?
That one there:
https://goo.gl/maps/dKa8wU8CEQbvA26H7
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Re: A19 dualling between Selby and the A64

Post by jgharston »

Chris5156 wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 09:18 You'll only end up driving through Selby if you're following the A19 and ignoring everything else on the sign. Approaching the bypass, the A19 may still head into town, but York is clearly signposted around the bypass, complete with A19 in brackets.
That's a classic example of a "what the????" sign leaving you wondering what you've just driven past. You then enter the roundabout looking for the A19 - as that's the road you've been on for the last umpty-umpty miles and is the road to York - and turn off at the sign that says "A19".
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Re: A19 dualling between Selby and the A64

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jgharston wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 19:44
Chris5156 wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 09:18 You'll only end up driving through Selby if you're following the A19 and ignoring everything else on the sign. Approaching the bypass, the A19 may still head into town, but York is clearly signposted around the bypass, complete with A19 in brackets.
That's a classic example of a "what the????" sign leaving you wondering what you've just driven past. You then enter the roundabout looking for the A19 - as that's the road you've been on for the last umpty-umpty miles and is the road to York - and turn off at the sign that says "A19".
Yes, it would be normal practice to renumber an A road out of a town centre entirely when a bypass is built. I can only suggest not doing so was to encourage "passing trade", which is a complete fallacy anyway.
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Re: A19 dualling between Selby and the A64

Post by KeithW »

Bryn666 wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 19:54
Yes, it would be normal practice to renumber an A road out of a town centre entirely when a bypass is built. I can only suggest not doing so was to encourage "passing trade", which is a complete fallacy anyway.
Well to be fair Selby is a Primary Destination and one of the major settlements along that section of the A19, what is odd of course is that the section of the A19 into Selby is signed as secondary :)

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.76052 ... 6656?hl=en
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Re: A19 dualling between Selby and the A64

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KeithW wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 08:45
Bryn666 wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 19:54
Yes, it would be normal practice to renumber an A road out of a town centre entirely when a bypass is built. I can only suggest not doing so was to encourage "passing trade", which is a complete fallacy anyway.
Well to be fair Selby is a Primary Destination and one of the major settlements along that section of the A19, what is odd of course is that the section of the A19 into Selby is signed as secondary :)

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.76052 ... 6656?hl=en
Having primary routes up to, and around, the bypass would be quite sufficient for Selby to be served by the primary route network - the green line doesn't have to penetrate right into the town centre. See Chippenham, Kettering, Taunton for similar examples.
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