Forton - Pennine Tower

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chaseracer
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Forton - Pennine Tower

Post by chaseracer »

Greetings Sabristi - does anyone know whether the tower is open for organised visits and, if so, who to contact? Thanks.
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multiraider2
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Re: Forton - Pennine Tower

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No it doesn't organise visits. The building's unsafe and lined with asbestos.

The Pennine Tower is not pining, it's passed on! It is no more! It has ceased to be! It's expired and gone to meet its maker! It's a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace. If it hadn't been supported by the bricks it would be pushing up the daisies! Its metabolic processes are now history! It's off the twig! It's kicked the bucket, it's shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! This is an ex-building.

Sorry, we have history.......
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KeithW
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Re: Forton - Pennine Tower

Post by KeithW »

chaseracer wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 17:13 Greetings Sabristi - does anyone know whether the tower is open for organised visits and, if so, who to contact? Thanks.
Contact the people who own the services , they are the only ones who can give you a definitive answer.
https://motorwayservices.uk/Lancaster

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chaseracer
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Re: Forton - Pennine Tower

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Cheers Keith :D
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Barkstar
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Re: Forton - Pennine Tower

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multiraider2 wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 20:07 No it doesn't organise visits. The building's unsafe and lined with asbestos.
I thought the main issue is inadequate fire exits. I know it has been discussed here about before and this has been mentioned. Removing asbestos is relatively simple, though costly, and I can imagine a few companies could see an opportunity in such a landmark building. Getting round the fire exit problem in this listed building would seem to be unsurmountable.

It would be a good one for heritage open days, which sadly seem to be mostly churches now. I guess a lot of companies just see it as a hassle they can easily say no too, or there's disagreement between landlord and tenant over who would facilitate such an event.
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rhyds
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Re: Forton - Pennine Tower

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Barkstar wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 08:46
multiraider2 wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 20:07 No it doesn't organise visits. The building's unsafe and lined with asbestos.
I thought the main issue is inadequate fire exits. I know it has been discussed here about before and this has been mentioned. Removing asbestos is relatively simple, though costly, and I can imagine a few companies could see an opportunity in such a landmark building. Getting round the fire exit problem in this listed building would seem to be unsurmountable.

It would be a good one for heritage open days, which sadly seem to be mostly churches now. I guess a lot of companies just see it as a hassle they can easily say no too, or there's disagreement between landlord and tenant over who would facilitate such an event.
Its both a hassle and a massive moneypit. You'd have to waste a load of time and resources in the planning of an open day including risk assessments, staffing, publicity and dealing with the crowds* all while running a services.


*Three SABRE members and a cat
Built for comfort, not speed.
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Barkstar
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Re: Forton - Pennine Tower

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rhyds wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:00 Its both a hassle and a massive moneypit. You'd have to waste a load of time and resources in the planning of an open day including risk assessments, staffing, publicity and dealing with the crowds* all while running a services.
Oh I can imagine. I've both marshalled and driven through the waste water treatment plants at Hoscar and Clifton on rallies. It was obvious someone into rallying had a high enough position in United Utilities to give these the go ahead. It all stopped a few years ago, I assume the fan with enough clout retired or moved on.
I can also imagine some companies with a public profile might be all for showing off their assets (so to speak), it's good PR but for the reasons you've given the landlord has said 'no chance' even if the company were happy to do all the work. I've gone of quite a few tours in Manchester organised by a guide who clearly knows a lot of the right people to get into some interesting places but he's said that some places are now off limits now because a new H&S manager has said no because why make more work for yourself.

One thing for sure is the list of open buildings on Heritage Open Days has got less interesting as the years have passed. I certainly up for a nosy around Lancashire's flying saucer.
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Re: Forton - Pennine Tower

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rhyds wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:00 Its both a hassle and a massive moneypit. You'd have to waste a load of time and resources in the planning of an open day including risk assessments, staffing, publicity and dealing with the crowds* all while running a services.


*Three SABRE members and a cat
Plenty of businesses manage to participate in Doors Open Days while still running their business.
I've been on tours of several sewage treatment plants, construction sites, a potato factory, the Irn Bru factory, traffic control centre, BT operator services which handled 999 calls etc.
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rhyds
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Re: Forton - Pennine Tower

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Glen wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:26
rhyds wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:00 Its both a hassle and a massive moneypit. You'd have to waste a load of time and resources in the planning of an open day including risk assessments, staffing, publicity and dealing with the crowds* all while running a services.


*Three SABRE members and a cat
Plenty of businesses manage to participate in Doors Open Days while still running their business.
I've been on tours of several sewage treatment plants, construction sites, a potato factory, the Irn Bru factory, traffic control centre, BT operator services which handled 999 calls etc.
But why would an MSA operator waste a load of time and money on a standalone open day for a tower that nobody outside of a handful of enthusiasts care about? Especially as they'd have to make provisions for wheelchair users etc

Also, considering that MSAs are not allowed to be destinations in their own right, would they even be allowed to publicise and advertise such an event?
Built for comfort, not speed.
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Re: Forton - Pennine Tower

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This is the sort of property that either National Trust or English Heritage really ought to be taking an interest in, although the practicality of opening it as a visitor attraction while also using it as an MSA makes such a thing unlikely.
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Gav
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Re: Forton - Pennine Tower

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it looks like this may be about to change - there was talk about the possibility of this service area being consigned to the past completely as the site owners were looking at the possibility of a site redevelopment and even the construction of a new site more geared towards the introduction of electric cars. Also the upkeep of the tower is becoming a problem for them due to ongoing costs being incurred on a building that it not in use, they had it as a company training for a bit but that fell away and as they are looking at cost / benefit they really dont see no real future for the site. especially if they are being held accountable for the building, and having to maintain it and not get any real benefit from doing so.

in the commercial world these things dont really last, no revenue and a requirement soon sways those in the decision process to cut thier losses and move on.

Some of the proposals for the new site are based around the one side model with an overpass and provision of electric recharging in an integrated format so that the user uses a phone app and can relax and have a coffee etc while their car is recharged.

lancaster services modernised.
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rhyds
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Re: Forton - Pennine Tower

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Rob590 wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 13:06 This is the sort of property that either National Trust or English Heritage really ought to be taking an interest in.
Oh heck no! That would be throwing good money after bad, as well as ending up with a crumbling listed structure next to a vital motorway link.

The best way to preserve the heritage of the Pennine Tower would be to re-enact the felling of a chimney by Fred Dibnah on it
Built for comfort, not speed.
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Re: Forton - Pennine Tower

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Rob590 wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 13:06 This is the sort of property that either National Trust or English Heritage really ought to be taking an interest in, although the practicality of opening it as a visitor attraction while also using it as an MSA makes such a thing unlikely.
The National Trust generally requires that properties be self supporting, not necessarily in terms of income from visitors. In many cases the owner also signs over the estate land so it gets the rent paid by tenant farmers. It also requires that it has the ownership of the property so the Pennine Tower is not an option for them.

English Heritage is also expected to be self financing, there have been cases where English Heritage and the National Trust have entered partnerships with commercial enterprises but I see little prospect of Moto doing that as there is nothing in it for them and there are liability issues.
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Re: Forton - Pennine Tower

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Gav wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 13:12Some of the proposals for the new site are based around the one side model with an overpass and provision of electric recharging in an integrated format so that the user uses a phone app and can relax and have a coffee etc while their car is recharged.
How many more visitors do Moto think a new single-site services would bring in, compared to the existing site, that it would be cost effective to go through all the planning processes, procure a brand new greenfield site, pay for a whole motorway junction including a new bridge over or under the M6, new building, new car park and new facilities etc? Even if the current site is thought to be past its sell by date it would surely be cheaper, quicker and easier to rebuild in situ. I can't see it happening.
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Re: Forton - Pennine Tower

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Chris5156 wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:40
Gav wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 13:12Some of the proposals for the new site are based around the one side model with an overpass and provision of electric recharging in an integrated format so that the user uses a phone app and can relax and have a coffee etc while their car is recharged.
How many more visitors do Moto think a new single-site services would bring in, compared to the existing site, that it would be cost effective to go through all the planning processes, procure a brand new greenfield site, pay for a whole motorway junction including a new bridge over or under the M6, new building, new car park and new facilities etc? Even if the current site is thought to be past its sell by date it would surely be cheaper, quicker and easier to rebuild in situ. I can't see it happening.
Well one possibility I suppose is to build the new services off J33 but it does seem unlikely to be cost effective. On the other hand I can think of 2 service Areas on the A1 that have been abandoned and Forton is rather small if you want to add more car charging bays.

One variation that was actually done on the A1(M) was to produced a linked services area. Scotch Corner services is small but they built the Barton Truckstop diverting HGV's (and caravans) there.

It would not overly surprise me if more of the old smaller MSA's came under threat of replacement. Washinton Services comes to mind along with Durham. The prime candidate for closure has to be Bridgwater. Its is little more than a cramped 2 level parking structure, filling station and Burger King.
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Re: Forton - Pennine Tower

Post by SteveA30 »

There is a new Strensham n/bnd and there are plans for a new Bridgwater at the junction itself, on the s/bnd side.
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Re: Forton - Pennine Tower

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SteveA30 wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 14:50 There is a new Strensham n/bnd and there are plans for a new Bridgwater at the junction itself, on the s/bnd side.
I know that Notaro had a plan for Bridgwater but it has gone rather quiet lately.
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Re: Forton - Pennine Tower

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as said forton is starting to become a drain on moto. a company thats looking at new sites and redeveloped amenity buildings...

the current forton is based on 60's layouts and would be very difficult to update without completely knocking down. And to redevelop a live site ? they did repair a couple of sites in the past and learned sore lessons from that... the bigger picture now is to incorporate charging technology with the site amenity building itself, the requirement for a secondry filling station isnt as important. you want parking to be close to the building and for the building to be along the lines of the newer styles with open plan concourse with multiple retail opportunities for coffee food and other consumables. Forton doesnt cut it. and each year for the past few years it has deteriorated.

unless they can find away to update it then they will move away from it. And building on both sides isnt the done thing these days. one side can be bigger no repetition and more attractive for the vendors to have both north and south bound customers at the same side. two stores and half the footfall.... or one store and double the foot fall... the profit opportunities are better.

forton as it stands is no longer what moto want.
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Re: Forton - Pennine Tower

Post by fras »

And, of course, we have the H & S basic test of an unacceptable risk to overcome - a billion, billion to one chance of an accident in the next 500 years
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Re: Forton - Pennine Tower

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SteveA30 wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 14:50 There is a new Strensham n/bnd ...
Not quite that new: it's thirty years since Strensham n/bnd was moved.
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