Major new development on Gloucester bypass

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chaseracer
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by chaseracer »

Truvelo wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 14:20
Chris5156 wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 13:48
Bryn666 wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:51
I don't think we have any real comparable schemes - Worcester perhaps where the A4440 runs alongside the M5?
You could argue the M6 around Stoke, with the A500 as local distributor, perform the same functions - though of course in that case the two don't run side by side.

The A47 and A452 alongside the M6 north east of Birmingham are similar, but don't have direct connections to the M6 at either end.
But none of those are grade separated unless you count the A500 which doesn't run near the M6. The nearest we have is the A8 and M8 to the east of Baillieston. Another Scottish example would have been the A78 and Long Drive in Irvine which would have seen Long Drive GSJ'd.
Took their sweet time with the GSJs on the D-road, though...
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A303Chris
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

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JammyDodge wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 14:37
A303Chris wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:09 It seems we have an aversion, unlike the French, to GSJ's on existing bypass roads.
Joined up thinking and transport planning is one of those ghastly continental ideas, which we couldn't possibly do because its a good thing.
Jokes aside, a good comparison for Gloucester is Perpignan in France (120-130,000 pops).
Not including Motorway Junctions:
I counted 1 GSJ in Gloucester, here
I counted ~22 GSJs in Perpignan, with several others clearly planned for grade separation. One I did like was this
And the A38, Quedgeley bypass has a GSJ at either end, but as is the case, the bypass was ruined with a roundabout in the middle of it to serve a new development
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A303Chris
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

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WHBM wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 15:16 I've written here before on how developers manage this sort of thing.

- Developer proposes major now housing/commercial scheme, with all emphasis to local authority on additional tax revenue.
- Local authority salivates at thought of all that money, S.106 agreements, etc.
- Scheme appears to require a GSJ with adjacent main road.
- GSJ is costed by Highways, along with developers' contribution, although developer has already been given good detail on this.
- Developer chooses their moment to say this blows their scheme out of the water financially, unless a cheaper junction is possible.
- Local authority panic at thought of all that money lost, tell Highways to do cheapest possible solution.
- Highways say a flat junction is inappropriate.
- Local authority Chief Exec, Leader, etc tell Highways to Shut Up and do cheapest scheme pronto.
- Developer and their planning and transport consultants celebrate the victory.
As someone who is a Transport Planner and worked in Highway Authorities before going to private practice, that is an excellent summary :wink:
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AAndy
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

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This video I took last november, I think it is the roundabout in question. https://youtu.be/l9KLkSFOeow
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

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Chris5156 wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 18:55
jackal wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 18:27An unconventional way of grade separating the through route: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/42% ... 6947?hl=en
I've been through that, many years ago, and it's great! One direction just passes under the existing river bridge which is ingenious.

The one on the north bank is new to me, and is a two-way underpass. It's not signposted but seems to be arranged so that vehicles approaching from the east can loop under and reach the bridge without having to pass around most of the roundabout. Possibly this frees up the roundabout for other movements or something, but it comes at the expense of having to make a left turn across oncoming traffic. Really intriguing.
The satellite image shows an older layout where the roundabout is a T-junction (the N leg is new) which maybe explains the origins of it better?
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

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There is a new rbt appearing on the A38 south of Taunton, near Runwell, causing long roadworks queues. This is the other side of a hill that hides Taunton from view. So, now it will extend southwards towards Wellington. The north side is already expanding rapidly towards Bridgwater and Bridgwater is now joined to North Petherton by housing and units......

The developers are out of control as in WHBM's description and, few seem to notice.
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

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A303Chris wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:31 As someone who is a Transport Planner and worked in Highway Authorities before going to private practice, that is an excellent summary :wink:
Are you referring to myself or yourself ? :)
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

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SteveA30 wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:34 There is a new rbt appearing on the A38 south of Taunton, near Runwell, causing long roadworks queues. This is the other side of a hill that hides Taunton from view. So, now it will extend southwards towards Wellington. The north side is already expanding rapidly towards Bridgwater and Bridgwater is now joined to North Petherton by housing and units......

The developers are out of control as in WHBM's description and, few seem to notice.
It is startling, fwiw a video here taken in September with the roundabout foundations visible, as well as the deviation . https://youtu.be/mCRBeqRITp8 .

There are many more examples, a couple that spring to mind are ones on the NE side of Didcot and also around Witney and ross on wye, the latter 2 also being on the A40. Ginormous.
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

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WHBM wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 15:30
A303Chris wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:31 As someone who is a Transport Planner and worked in Highway Authorities before going to private practice, that is an excellent summary :wink:
Are you referring to myself or yourself ? :)
I was referring to myself 😂😂
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

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AAndy wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:17 This video I took last november, I think it is the roundabout in question. https://youtu.be/l9KLkSFOeow
That's the one! It used to be the longest dialled stretch of the Gloucester bypass, and was NSL except for the approaches to the roundabouts at each end. Now it'll probably get a 50 slapped on it.

A303Chris wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:30
JammyDodge wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 14:37
A303Chris wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:09 It seems we have an aversion, unlike the French, to GSJ's on existing bypass roads.
Joined up thinking and transport planning is one of those ghastly continental ideas, which we couldn't possibly do because its a good thing.
Jokes aside, a good comparison for Gloucester is Perpignan in France (120-130,000 pops).
Not including Motorway Junctions:
I counted 1 GSJ in Gloucester, here
I counted ~22 GSJs in Perpignan, with several others clearly planned for grade separation. One I did like was this
And the A38, Quedgeley bypass has a GSJ at either end, but as is the case, the bypass was ruined with a roundabout in the middle of it to serve a new development
It has a set of traffic lights about half way along, which are worse than the roundabout.

And the giant lights-controlled crossroads at the A38-A430 junction (on the city side of the GSJ to the north of Quedgeley) is a Frankenstein's monster of a junction; I know Gloucester extremely well, and it's caught me out more than once!
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

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Owain wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 04:45
A303Chris wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:30
And the A38, Quedgeley bypass has a GSJ at either end, but as is the case, the bypass was ruined with a roundabout in the middle of it to serve a new development
It has a set of traffic lights about half way along, which are worse than the roundabout.

And the giant lights-controlled crossroads at the A38-A430 junction (on the city side of the GSJ to the north of Quedgeley) is a Frankenstein's monster of a junction; I know Gloucester extremely well, and it's caught me out more than once!
I did not realise it had lights as well, just looked on Google, that is now one ruined bypass.
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

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SteveA30 wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:34 There is a new rbt appearing on the A38 south of Taunton, near Runwell, causing long roadworks queues. This is the other side of a hill that hides Taunton from view. So, now it will extend southwards towards Wellington. The north side is already expanding rapidly towards Bridgwater and Bridgwater is now joined to North Petherton by housing and units......

The developers are out of control as in WHBM's description and, few seem to notice.
Both the sites in Taunton were allocated by the 2011 (I think) Taunton Deane Local Plan, to fulfill national government housebuilding requirements
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by Norfolktolancashire »

Herned wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 08:50
SteveA30 wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:34 There is a new rbt appearing on the A38 south of Taunton, near Runwell, causing long roadworks queues. This is the other side of a hill that hides Taunton from view. So, now it will extend southwards towards Wellington. The north side is already expanding rapidly towards Bridgwater and Bridgwater is now joined to North Petherton by housing and units......

The developers are out of control as in WHBM's description and, few seem to notice.
Both the sites in Taunton were allocated by the 2011 (I think) Taunton Deane Local Plan, to fulfill national government housebuilding requirements
Taunton is expanding at a fair rate, the latest proposals are to extend the residential area north to the A38/A361 Glastonbury Road junction, some miles north of the centre.

The town is becoming the major centre for the south west, after Exeter and Bristol.
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

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Crap, that may mean a rbt or signals in the middle of the pure 1960's D2. Sacrilege. Any plans anywhere?

Yep, exactly where I thought the rbt would be.
https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/som ... od-6397129

Good thing the A38 and M5 close ranks just above that. No room there. If the Bridgwater housing jumps south of N. Petherton, there will be no stopping them.....

Exeter is spilling all over the bypass
The A39 has a new rbt by J23, including a bypass for Puriton to an Amazon warehouse I believe.
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

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SteveA30 wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 20:12 Good thing the A38 and M5 close ranks just above that. No room there. If the Bridgwater housing jumps south of N. Petherton, there will be no stopping them.....
In a sensible world northbound slips to the M5 from the A361 would be a good idea
SteveA30 wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 20:12 The A39 has a new rbt by J23, including a bypass for Puriton to an Amazon warehouse I believe.
Nothing confirmed at Puriton yet, it's being touted as a site for a battery gigafactory by the government, most of the site is set aside for advanced manufacturing (for now)
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

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Wondering if they will take this as an opportunity to reduce the speed limit on the two A40 arms from this new roundabout. If I'm not mistaken, this was an NSL stretch, guessing that might go for a burton now.
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by xnx »

Some of these "developer" roundabouts have traffic signals as well as lower speed limits and yes, some could have used nearby overbridges for cheaper grade separation like at Mickleover

Similar will happen soon on other nsl dual carriageways places like Lancing A27, Minworth A38 and another at Hailsham A22 half way on the longest remaining segment.

One reason I like motorways is there is less chance of at grades unless in Scunthorpe on the M181!
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

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danfw194 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:54 Wondering if they will take this as an opportunity to reduce the speed limit on the two A40 arms from this new roundabout. If I'm not mistaken, this was an NSL stretch, guessing that might go for a burton now.
It was indeed NSL, but there was quite a long 50 on the approach to the Longford roundabout with the A38 (which appeared after the Audi dealership was built), and a much shorter 40 on immediate approach to the roundabout with the A417 at the other end. I'm expecting that the former NSL stretch - the new roundabout being right in the middle of it - will now be 50 throughout.
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by Beardy5632 »

danfw194 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:54 Wondering if they will take this as an opportunity to reduce the speed limit on the two A40 arms from this new roundabout. If I'm not mistaken, this was an NSL stretch, guessing that might go for a burton now.
I think if they do reduce the limit it'll probably be 60 like the A38 past Quedgeley.
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

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JammyDodge wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 14:37
A303Chris wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:09 It seems we have an aversion, unlike the French, to GSJ's on existing bypass roads.
Joined up thinking and transport planning is one of those ghastly continental ideas, which we couldn't possibly do because its a good thing.
Jokes aside, a good comparison for Gloucester is Perpignan in France (120-130,000 pops).
Not including Motorway Junctions:
I counted 1 GSJ in Gloucester, here
I counted ~22 GSJs in Perpignan, with several others clearly planned for grade separation. One I did like was this
I'd like to raise something.

In Brockworth, which should be part of Gloucester.... there's a roundabout interchange serving that "suburb".
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