Major new development on Gloucester bypass

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Owain
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Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by Owain »

If there is already a thread about this, I am unable to find it.

I drove the A40 Gloucester bypass a few days ago and was astonished to find that a completely new roundabout has appeared in the longest section between the Longford roundabout and the hamburger junction near Oxstalls. There's a story about it here:

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/n ... ew-5230273

The signage now in place suggests that the A38 is to be diverted from its present course through Longford to meet the A40 here. A look on the map shows that a similar roundabout has been constructed on the A38 at Twigworth, which appears to be consistent with this idea. What is perhaps less consistent with the idea is that the new road will provide access to new residential housing, a supermarket, and a business park.
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A303Chris
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by A303Chris »

Seems the in thing these days, there's the roundabout in the middle of the A40 Witney bypass now, and a few years back one appeared on the A329 at Bracknell just after the A329(M) ended.

It seems we have an aversion, unlike the French, to GSJ's on existing bypass roads.
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by JammyDodge »

A303Chris wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:09 It seems we have an aversion, unlike the French, to GSJ's on existing bypass roads.
Joined up thinking and transport planning is one of those ghastly continental ideas, which we couldn't possibly do because its a good thing.
Jokes aside, a good comparison for Gloucester is Perpignan in France (120-130,000 pops).
Not including Motorway Junctions:
I counted 1 GSJ in Gloucester, here
I counted ~22 GSJs in Perpignan, with several others clearly planned for grade separation. One I did like was this
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by WHBM »

I've written here before on how developers manage this sort of thing.

- Developer proposes major now housing/commercial scheme, with all emphasis to local authority on additional tax revenue.
- Local authority salivates at thought of all that money, S.106 agreements, etc.
- Scheme appears to require a GSJ with adjacent main road.
- GSJ is costed by Highways, along with developers' contribution, although developer has already been given good detail on this.
- Developer chooses their moment to say this blows their scheme out of the water financially, unless a cheaper junction is possible.
- Local authority panic at thought of all that money lost, tell Highways to do cheapest possible solution.
- Highways say a flat junction is inappropriate.
- Local authority Chief Exec, Leader, etc tell Highways to Shut Up and do cheapest scheme pronto.
- Developer and their planning and transport consultants celebrate the victory.
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by Beardy5632 »

Owain wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 09:19 If there is already a thread about this, I am unable to find it.

I drove the A40 Gloucester bypass a few days ago and was astonished to find that a completely new roundabout has appeared in the longest section between the Longford roundabout and the hamburger junction near Oxstalls. There's a story about it here:

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/n ... ew-5230273

The signage now in place suggests that the A38 is to be diverted from its present course through Longford to meet the A40 here. A look on the map shows that a similar roundabout has been constructed on the A38 at Twigworth, which appears to be consistent with this idea. What is perhaps less consistent with the idea is that the new road will provide access to new residential housing, a supermarket, and a business park.
Assuming that you mean this sign. It's been there long before the new roundabout. The A38 is keeping it's old route through Longford by the looks of it (the signage on the roundabout at Twigworth certainly says that anyway).
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Owain
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by Owain »

Beardy5632 wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 15:30
Owain wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 09:19 If there is already a thread about this, I am unable to find it.

I drove the A40 Gloucester bypass a few days ago and was astonished to find that a completely new roundabout has appeared in the longest section between the Longford roundabout and the hamburger junction near Oxstalls. There's a story about it here:

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/n ... ew-5230273

The signage now in place suggests that the A38 is to be diverted from its present course through Longford to meet the A40 here. A look on the map shows that a similar roundabout has been constructed on the A38 at Twigworth, which appears to be consistent with this idea. What is perhaps less consistent with the idea is that the new road will provide access to new residential housing, a supermarket, and a business park.
Assuming that you mean this sign. It's been there long before the new roundabout. The A38 is keeping it's old route through Longford by the looks of it (the signage on the roundabout at Twigworth certainly says that anyway).
That must be it - I was fooled by an old sign I must have driven past hundreds of times before! :facepalm: :oops:

On the same trip I drove the A40 from Huntley to Ross, which - amazingly - I have never driven before. I couldn't quite believe how twisty it is!
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by jackal »

I was pleasantly surprised that they were apparently providing a Longford bypass as part of the scheme. No such luck.

Naturally there's also a bridge near the new roundabout (Innsworth Lane) that could easily have been used for a GSJ.

To complete the hat trick of disappointment, Google Maps makes it look like there's a segregated left turn lane at the rbt, but this is probably just a shadow of the old westbound carriageway. OSM suggests they tore up the old carriageway rather than let anyone bypass the roundabout.
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by Truvelo »

48 years ago this was planned - cringe :-x. An A38 Longford Bypass would have been part of the alternative proposal.

Even if the bypass was built like this it would still be liable to have an at-grade roundabout plonked in the middle of it as Witney as proven. What's worse is according to the latest network map this is still a trunk road which is even more worrying.
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by Herned »

JammyDodge wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 14:37 I counted ~22 GSJs in Perpignan, with several others clearly planned for grade separation. One I did like was this
I think it would be a cold day in hell before anything as pragmatic as that was built here
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by Owain »

jackal wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 16:16 I was pleasantly surprised that they were apparently providing a Longford bypass as part of the scheme. No such luck.

Naturally there's also a bridge near the new roundabout (Innsworth Lane) that could easily have been used for a GSJ.

To complete the hat trick of disappointment, Google Maps makes it look like there's a segregated left turn lane at the rbt, but this is probably just a shadow of the old westbound carriageway. OSM suggests they tore up the old carriageway rather than let anyone bypass the roundabout.
I was pleasantly surprised too, and then disappointed in equal measure.

Re. the segregated left turn: when I drove through it, it was like driving through the roundabout itself, but with cones marking off everything that wasn't the e/b and w/b flows. So there doesn't appear to be a segregated lane, unless my shock at the whole development caused me to miss it.
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by ChrisH »

JammyDodge wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 14:37
A303Chris wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:09 It seems we have an aversion, unlike the French, to GSJ's on existing bypass roads.
Joined up thinking and transport planning is one of those ghastly continental ideas, which we couldn't possibly do because its a good thing.
Jokes aside, a good comparison for Gloucester is Perpignan in France (120-130,000 pops).
Not including Motorway Junctions:
I counted 1 GSJ in Gloucester, here
I counted ~22 GSJs in Perpignan, with several others clearly planned for grade separation. One I did like was this
I'd never looked at Perpignan on the map before, but what struck me is that the road now called D900 was presumably the original A9 - like most French motorways it went too close to urban centres and had too many exits. Now the new A9 is D3M with no intermediate junctions at all, while the old road serves as the local route. A very neat solution to separating strategic and local traffic flows. (They've done something similar up the road at Montpellier.)
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by Chris Bertram »

ChrisH wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:03I'd never looked at Perpignan on the map before, but what struck me is that the road now called D900 was presumably the original A9 ...
It's more likely the downgraded N9 - follow it to the north/north east and it changes its number at the departmental boundaries, but there's always a 9 in the number, and the N9 still exists for a shortish stretch NE of Béziers.
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by Bryn666 »

ChrisH wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:03
JammyDodge wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 14:37
A303Chris wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:09 It seems we have an aversion, unlike the French, to GSJ's on existing bypass roads.
Joined up thinking and transport planning is one of those ghastly continental ideas, which we couldn't possibly do because its a good thing.
Jokes aside, a good comparison for Gloucester is Perpignan in France (120-130,000 pops).
Not including Motorway Junctions:
I counted 1 GSJ in Gloucester, here
I counted ~22 GSJs in Perpignan, with several others clearly planned for grade separation. One I did like was this
I'd never looked at Perpignan on the map before, but what struck me is that the road now called D900 was presumably the original A9 - like most French motorways it went too close to urban centres and had too many exits. Now the new A9 is D3M with no intermediate junctions at all, while the old road serves as the local route. A very neat solution to separating strategic and local traffic flows. (They've done something similar up the road at Montpellier.)
From shaky memory of old French maps the A9 is actually very old here and on the same alignment as it has always been (unlike the new Montpellier bypass). On the aerial photos the Rocade Ouest (D900) is still being built so it's a recent means to allow traffic to avoid paying tolls but also to bypass the town.

The A9 gets rammed with holiday traffic heading to Barcelona and basically anywhere on the east coast of Spain so this makes sense.
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by ChrisH »

Bryn666 wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:33
ChrisH wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:03
JammyDodge wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 14:37

Joined up thinking and transport planning is one of those ghastly continental ideas, which we couldn't possibly do because its a good thing.
Jokes aside, a good comparison for Gloucester is Perpignan in France (120-130,000 pops).
Not including Motorway Junctions:
I counted 1 GSJ in Gloucester, here
I counted ~22 GSJs in Perpignan, with several others clearly planned for grade separation. One I did like was this
I'd never looked at Perpignan on the map before, but what struck me is that the road now called D900 was presumably the original A9 - like most French motorways it went too close to urban centres and had too many exits. Now the new A9 is D3M with no intermediate junctions at all, while the old road serves as the local route. A very neat solution to separating strategic and local traffic flows. (They've done something similar up the road at Montpellier.)
From shaky memory of old French maps the A9 is actually very old here and on the same alignment as it has always been (unlike the new Montpellier bypass). On the aerial photos the Rocade Ouest (D900) is still being built so it's a recent means to allow traffic to avoid paying tolls but also to bypass the town.

The A9 gets rammed with holiday traffic heading to Barcelona and basically anywhere on the east coast of Spain so this makes sense.
You're right. I just looked on Google Earth and it shows 2003 imagery with the A9 on its current alignment, D2M - still with no junctions near Perpignan (?) and with the new Rocade partially under construction.
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by Bryn666 »

ChrisH wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:52
Bryn666 wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:33
ChrisH wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:03

I'd never looked at Perpignan on the map before, but what struck me is that the road now called D900 was presumably the original A9 - like most French motorways it went too close to urban centres and had too many exits. Now the new A9 is D3M with no intermediate junctions at all, while the old road serves as the local route. A very neat solution to separating strategic and local traffic flows. (They've done something similar up the road at Montpellier.)
From shaky memory of old French maps the A9 is actually very old here and on the same alignment as it has always been (unlike the new Montpellier bypass). On the aerial photos the Rocade Ouest (D900) is still being built so it's a recent means to allow traffic to avoid paying tolls but also to bypass the town.

The A9 gets rammed with holiday traffic heading to Barcelona and basically anywhere on the east coast of Spain so this makes sense.
You're right. I just looked on Google Earth and it shows 2003 imagery with the A9 on its current alignment, D2M - still with no junctions near Perpignan (?) and with the new Rocade partially under construction.
I don't think we have any real comparable schemes - Worcester perhaps where the A4440 runs alongside the M5?
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

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Bryn666 wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:51
ChrisH wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:52
Bryn666 wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:33From shaky memory of old French maps the A9 is actually very old here and on the same alignment as it has always been (unlike the new Montpellier bypass). On the aerial photos the Rocade Ouest (D900) is still being built so it's a recent means to allow traffic to avoid paying tolls but also to bypass the town.

The A9 gets rammed with holiday traffic heading to Barcelona and basically anywhere on the east coast of Spain so this makes sense.
You're right. I just looked on Google Earth and it shows 2003 imagery with the A9 on its current alignment, D2M - still with no junctions near Perpignan (?) and with the new Rocade partially under construction.
I don't think we have any real comparable schemes - Worcester perhaps where the A4440 runs alongside the M5?
You could argue the M6 around Stoke, with the A500 as local distributor, perform the same functions - though of course in that case the two don't run side by side.

The A47 and A452 alongside the M6 north east of Birmingham are similar, but don't have direct connections to the M6 at either end.
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by Truvelo »

Chris5156 wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 13:48
Bryn666 wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:51
ChrisH wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:52
You're right. I just looked on Google Earth and it shows 2003 imagery with the A9 on its current alignment, D2M - still with no junctions near Perpignan (?) and with the new Rocade partially under construction.
I don't think we have any real comparable schemes - Worcester perhaps where the A4440 runs alongside the M5?
You could argue the M6 around Stoke, with the A500 as local distributor, perform the same functions - though of course in that case the two don't run side by side.

The A47 and A452 alongside the M6 north east of Birmingham are similar, but don't have direct connections to the M6 at either end.
But none of those are grade separated unless you count the A500 which doesn't run near the M6. The nearest we have is the A8 and M8 to the east of Baillieston. Another Scottish example would have been the A78 and Long Drive in Irvine which would have seen Long Drive GSJ'd.
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

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M6 and M6 Toll?
JammyDodge wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 14:37 One I did like was this
An unconventional way of grade separating the through route: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/42% ... 6947?hl=en
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

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jackal wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 18:27An unconventional way of grade separating the through route: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/42% ... 6947?hl=en
I've been through that, many years ago, and it's great! One direction just passes under the existing river bridge which is ingenious.

The one on the north bank is new to me, and is a two-way underpass. It's not signposted but seems to be arranged so that vehicles approaching from the east can loop under and reach the bridge without having to pass around most of the roundabout. Possibly this frees up the roundabout for other movements or something, but it comes at the expense of having to make a left turn across oncoming traffic. Really intriguing.
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Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by ABB125 »

I rather like this unconventional cloverleaf: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@42.70105 ... !1e3?hl=en
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