Major new development on Gloucester bypass

The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.

There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).

Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.

Moderator: Site Management Team

User avatar
Owain
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 26209
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 17:02
Location: Leodis

Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by Owain »

JackieRoads wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 17:28 I'd like to raise something.

In Brockworth, which should be part of Gloucester.... there's a roundabout interchange serving that "suburb".
Why should it be part of Gloucester? It's a village in its own right. Urban sprawl will probably consume it at some point, but I don't see why it would be necessary to cover all of the green belt with housing and retail parks just to 'fill in the gap' and make it part of the city! If being close to another settlement were the rationale, why not go the whole hog and make Cheltenham part of Gloucester too? They'd love that! :mrgreen:

As for the roads, if you look closely it is quite easy to determine the original route of the A417 through Brockworth. This has - I think - been altered twice since classification.

Originally it followed the Roman road on the perfectly straight alignment. I assume that the first change came with the original dualling of the A417 to bypass Hucclecote (what a great-sounding local name that is!), beginning at Brockworth and heading north-west along the now unclassified dual carriageway that is the remnant of that 'new' alignment.

The second came with the bypassing of Brockworth itself, which took the A417 onto its present alignment from the rather ungainly roundabout immediately west of M5 J11A, reconverging (again, I think!) with the original route near Little Witcombe, from which it proceeds up the long hill to the famous and hallowed Sabristic landmark of the Air Balloon.

The reason for the quite impressive tangle of white-signed dual carriageways is therefore partly because one used to be part of the A417 Hucclecote bypass, while the other - the B4641 - is quite a recent road designed to link the Gloucester Business Park to the M5.
Former President & F99 Driver

Viva la Repubblica!
SteveA30
Member
Posts: 6016
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 12:52
Location: Dorset

Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by SteveA30 »

why not go the whole hog and make Cheltenham part of Gloucester too? They'd love that!
Don't put ideas in their head! They might copy Oxford and Portsmouth and turn the M5 (A5 ?) (A5000?) into a boulevard, with rbts and signals.....
Roads and holidays in the west, before motorways.
http://trektothewest.shutterfly.com
http://holidayroads.webs.com/
User avatar
Chris Bertram
Member
Posts: 15744
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by Chris Bertram »

Owain wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 09:31
JackieRoads wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 17:28 I'd like to raise something.

In Brockworth, which should be part of Gloucester.... there's a roundabout interchange serving that "suburb".
Why should it be part of Gloucester? It's a village in its own right. Urban sprawl will probably consume it at some point, but I don't see why it would be necessary to cover all of the green belt with housing and retail parks just to 'fill in the gap' and make it part of the city! If being close to another settlement were the rationale, why not go the whole hog and make Cheltenham part of Gloucester too? They'd love that! :mrgreen:
Brockworth is within the district of Tewkesbury, which inserts itself between Gloucester and Cheltenham.
“The quality of any advice anybody has to offer has to be judged against the quality of life they actually lead.” - Douglas Adams.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
ABB125
Member
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2020 19:58

Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by ABB125 »

Chris Bertram wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 16:16
Owain wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 09:31
JackieRoads wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 17:28 I'd like to raise something.

In Brockworth, which should be part of Gloucester.... there's a roundabout interchange serving that "suburb".
Why should it be part of Gloucester? It's a village in its own right. Urban sprawl will probably consume it at some point, but I don't see why it would be necessary to cover all of the green belt with housing and retail parks just to 'fill in the gap' and make it part of the city! If being close to another settlement were the rationale, why not go the whole hog and make Cheltenham part of Gloucester too? They'd love that! :mrgreen:
Brockworth is within the district of Tewkesbury, which inserts itself between Gloucester and Cheltenham.
Tewkesbury Borough is rather odd, in that it almost encircles Cheltenham and goes round a bit over half of Gloucester, yet covers very little of the area around Tewkesbury itself.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tewke ... -2.0623472
User avatar
Chris Bertram
Member
Posts: 15744
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by Chris Bertram »

ABB125 wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 17:51
Chris Bertram wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 16:16
Owain wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 09:31 Why should it be part of Gloucester? It's a village in its own right. Urban sprawl will probably consume it at some point, but I don't see why it would be necessary to cover all of the green belt with housing and retail parks just to 'fill in the gap' and make it part of the city! If being close to another settlement were the rationale, why not go the whole hog and make Cheltenham part of Gloucester too? They'd love that! :mrgreen:
Brockworth is within the district of Tewkesbury, which inserts itself between Gloucester and Cheltenham.
Tewkesbury Borough is rather odd, in that it almost encircles Cheltenham and goes round a bit over half of Gloucester, yet covers very little of the area around Tewkesbury itself.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tewke ... -2.0623472
To be fair, if you head north of Tewkesbury, it isn't far before you find yourself in Worcestershire. But there's no rule to say that the HQ of a district must be in the centre of the district anyway.
“The quality of any advice anybody has to offer has to be judged against the quality of life they actually lead.” - Douglas Adams.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
User avatar
Owain
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 26209
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 17:02
Location: Leodis

Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by Owain »

Chris Bertram wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 18:06
ABB125 wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 17:51
Chris Bertram wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 16:16 Brockworth is within the district of Tewkesbury, which inserts itself between Gloucester and Cheltenham.
Tewkesbury Borough is rather odd, in that it almost encircles Cheltenham and goes round a bit over half of Gloucester, yet covers very little of the area around Tewkesbury itself.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tewke ... -2.0623472
To be fair, if you head north of Tewkesbury, it isn't far before you find yourself in Worcestershire. But there's no rule to say that the HQ of a district must be in the centre of the district anyway.
Brockworth probably has more in common with the other villages in the district, and with Tewkesbury itself, than it does with either Gloucester or Cheltenham.
Former President & F99 Driver

Viva la Repubblica!
User avatar
ajuk
Member
Posts: 929
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 23:59
Location: Bristol

Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by ajuk »

Owain wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 18:15
Chris Bertram wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 18:06
ABB125 wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 17:51
Tewkesbury Borough is rather odd, in that it almost encircles Cheltenham and goes round a bit over half of Gloucester, yet covers very little of the area around Tewkesbury itself.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tewke ... -2.0623472
To be fair, if you head north of Tewkesbury, it isn't far before you find yourself in Worcestershire. But there's no rule to say that the HQ of a district must be in the centre of the district anyway.
Brockworth probably has more in common with the other villages in the district, and with Tewkesbury itself, than it does with either Gloucester or Cheltenham.
There's also parts of Gloucester that are in Stroud district, I don't know why they don't sort these boarders out. :roll:
User avatar
the cheesecake man
Member
Posts: 2462
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 13:21
Location: Sheffield

Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by the cheesecake man »

Chris Bertram wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 18:06 To be fair, if you head north of Tewkesbury, it isn't far before you find yourself in Worcestershire. But there's no rule to say that the HQ of a district must be in the centre of the district anyway.
Or even that a council must be based in its council area at all. Until 2015 North East Derbyshire's HQ was in Chesterfield. Surrey County Council's HQ is in Kingston.
User avatar
Chris Bertram
Member
Posts: 15744
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by Chris Bertram »

the cheesecake man wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 13:02
Chris Bertram wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 18:06 To be fair, if you head north of Tewkesbury, it isn't far before you find yourself in Worcestershire. But there's no rule to say that the HQ of a district must be in the centre of the district anyway.
Or even that a council must be based in its council area at all. Until 2015 North East Derbyshire's HQ was in Chesterfield. Surrey County Council's HQ is in Kingston.
Not any more - they've moved to Reigate, but they were out of the county for over 55 years. And Mid-Glamorgan County Council never settled on a location within the county for their HQ, so were based in Cardiff, as was (more logically) South Glamorgan. But neither county council exists any more, so that's moot.
“The quality of any advice anybody has to offer has to be judged against the quality of life they actually lead.” - Douglas Adams.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
User avatar
A303Chris
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 3587
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 14:01
Location: Reading

Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by A303Chris »

Chris Bertram wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 13:12
the cheesecake man wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 13:02
Chris Bertram wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 18:06 To be fair, if you head north of Tewkesbury, it isn't far before you find yourself in Worcestershire. But there's no rule to say that the HQ of a district must be in the centre of the district anyway.
Or even that a council must be based in its council area at all. Until 2015 North East Derbyshire's HQ was in Chesterfield. Surrey County Council's HQ is in Kingston.
Not any more - they've moved to Reigate, but they were out of the county for over 55 years. And Mid-Glamorgan County Council never settled on a location within the county for their HQ, so were based in Cardiff, as was (more logically) South Glamorgan. But neither county council exists any more, so that's moot.
Surrey's move is interesting moving from a location within one kilometre of Kingston and Surbition stations, the later being on the main south west line out of Waterloo connecting to Guildford, Woking, Basingstoke and surrounded by bus services to the former Canon UK HQ, a place which is over a one and half miles from Reigate station which is only on the north downs line, and is served by one bus an hour. It is also not central in the county as Guildford or Woking would have been and in fact most trips to it are by car.

Doesn't really add up when Surrey highway officers refuse two dwellings in a village as it's not a sustainable location. Planning polices obviously do not apply to the policy makers
The M25 - The road to nowhere
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35755
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by Bryn666 »

A303Chris wrote: Fri Feb 11, 2022 13:35
Chris Bertram wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 13:12
the cheesecake man wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 13:02
Or even that a council must be based in its council area at all. Until 2015 North East Derbyshire's HQ was in Chesterfield. Surrey County Council's HQ is in Kingston.
Not any more - they've moved to Reigate, but they were out of the county for over 55 years. And Mid-Glamorgan County Council never settled on a location within the county for their HQ, so were based in Cardiff, as was (more logically) South Glamorgan. But neither county council exists any more, so that's moot.
Surrey's move is interesting moving from a location within one kilometre of Kingston and Surbition stations, the later being on the main south west line out of Waterloo connecting to Guildford, Woking, Basingstoke and surrounded by bus services to the former Canon UK HQ, a place which is over a one and half miles from Reigate station which is only on the north downs line, and is served by one bus an hour. It is also not central in the county as Guildford or Woking would have been and in fact most trips to it are by car.

Doesn't really add up when Surrey highway officers refuse two dwellings in a village as it's not a sustainable location. Planning polices obviously do not apply to the policy makers
Cheaper rent presumably.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
User avatar
Owain
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 26209
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 17:02
Location: Leodis

Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by Owain »

Bryn666 wrote: Fri Feb 11, 2022 13:42
A303Chris wrote: Fri Feb 11, 2022 13:35
Chris Bertram wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 13:12 Not any more - they've moved to Reigate, but they were out of the county for over 55 years. And Mid-Glamorgan County Council never settled on a location within the county for their HQ, so were based in Cardiff, as was (more logically) South Glamorgan. But neither county council exists any more, so that's moot.
Surrey's move is interesting moving from a location within one kilometre of Kingston and Surbition stations, the later being on the main south west line out of Waterloo connecting to Guildford, Woking, Basingstoke and surrounded by bus services to the former Canon UK HQ, a place which is over a one and half miles from Reigate station which is only on the north downs line, and is served by one bus an hour. It is also not central in the county as Guildford or Woking would have been and in fact most trips to it are by car.

Doesn't really add up when Surrey highway officers refuse two dwellings in a village as it's not a sustainable location. Planning polices obviously do not apply to the policy makers
Cheaper rent presumably.
I worked at Kingston University for two years (2007-9), and at the time the council were trying to sell their main building to the university. It was just over the road, and looked more like a university building than anything in the concrete jungle on the campus! Anyone know if they bought it?
Former President & F99 Driver

Viva la Repubblica!
User avatar
Chris Bertram
Member
Posts: 15744
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by Chris Bertram »

Owain wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:17
Bryn666 wrote: Fri Feb 11, 2022 13:42
A303Chris wrote: Fri Feb 11, 2022 13:35 Surrey's move is interesting moving from a location within one kilometre of Kingston and Surbition stations, the later being on the main south west line out of Waterloo connecting to Guildford, Woking, Basingstoke and surrounded by bus services to the former Canon UK HQ, a place which is over a one and half miles from Reigate station which is only on the north downs line, and is served by one bus an hour. It is also not central in the county as Guildford or Woking would have been and in fact most trips to it are by car.

Doesn't really add up when Surrey highway officers refuse two dwellings in a village as it's not a sustainable location. Planning polices obviously do not apply to the policy makers
Cheaper rent presumably.
I worked at Kingston University for two years (2007-9), and at the time the council were trying to sell their main building to the university. It was just over the road, and looked more like a university building than anything in the concrete jungle on the campus! Anyone know if they bought it?
No. From WP: "The site and building were purchased by a developer, RER London, in March 2021. The company announced that they were planning "A high quality, residential led, mixed used development comprising residential units (including affordable housing) and commercial / community floorspace""
“The quality of any advice anybody has to offer has to be judged against the quality of life they actually lead.” - Douglas Adams.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
User avatar
Owain
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 26209
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 17:02
Location: Leodis

Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by Owain »

Chris Bertram wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:34
Owain wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:17
Bryn666 wrote: Fri Feb 11, 2022 13:42
Cheaper rent presumably.
I worked at Kingston University for two years (2007-9), and at the time the council were trying to sell their main building to the university. It was just over the road, and looked more like a university building than anything in the concrete jungle on the campus! Anyone know if they bought it?
No. From WP: "The site and building were purchased by a developer, RER London, in March 2021. The company announced that they were planning "A high quality, residential led, mixed used development comprising residential units (including affordable housing) and commercial / community floorspace""
Oh... Shame - I liked the idea!
Former President & F99 Driver

Viva la Repubblica!
User avatar
trickstat
Member
Posts: 8738
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 14:06
Location: Letchworth Gdn City, Herts

Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by trickstat »

Chris Bertram wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 18:06
ABB125 wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 17:51
Chris Bertram wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 16:16 Brockworth is within the district of Tewkesbury, which inserts itself between Gloucester and Cheltenham.
Tewkesbury Borough is rather odd, in that it almost encircles Cheltenham and goes round a bit over half of Gloucester, yet covers very little of the area around Tewkesbury itself.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tewke ... -2.0623472
To be fair, if you head north of Tewkesbury, it isn't far before you find yourself in Worcestershire. But there's no rule to say that the HQ of a district must be in the centre of the district anyway.
The HQ of East Herts, which is the largest district in Herts by area, is in Bishop's Stortford which is next to the border with Essex. This may be partly to counter the fact that the County Council is based in Hertford.
User avatar
AAndy
Member
Posts: 3869
Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 20:28

Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by AAndy »

AAndy wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:17 This video I took last november, I think it is the roundabout in question. https://youtu.be/l9KLkSFOeow
2 years after it was completed and still not being used. Smacks a bit like the Amazon M49 link to nowhere GSJ. Public money used to build?
recent video (sept) https://youtu.be/NybegOwz9mQ
User avatar
roadtester
Member
Posts: 31475
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 18:05
Location: Cambridgeshire

Re: Major new development on Gloucester bypass

Post by roadtester »

Owain wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 18:15
Chris Bertram wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 18:06
ABB125 wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 17:51
Tewkesbury Borough is rather odd, in that it almost encircles Cheltenham and goes round a bit over half of Gloucester, yet covers very little of the area around Tewkesbury itself.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tewke ... -2.0623472
To be fair, if you head north of Tewkesbury, it isn't far before you find yourself in Worcestershire. But there's no rule to say that the HQ of a district must be in the centre of the district anyway.
Brockworth probably has more in common with the other villages in the district, and with Tewkesbury itself, than it does with either Gloucester or Cheltenham.
My late uncle and his family lived for decades in Brockworth, quite near the former Gloster aircraft factory where my grandfather worked during the war.

I think it’s fair to say that while it is within the gravitational pull of Gloucester, the locals do very much regard it as a separate place in its own right!
Electrophorus Electricus

Check out #davidsdailycar on Mastodon
Post Reply