Kindly define what you mean by danger markings
Why does the UK not have any D2+1 roads?
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Re: Why does the UK not have any D2+1 roads?
Not the original plan but we've ended up with this section of the A449 north of Worcester being converted to D2 +1
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.2501798 ... 384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.2501798 ... 384!8i8192
AKA M5 Driver
Re: Why does the UK not have any D2+1 roads?
Longer 'centre' lines.
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Re: Why does the UK not have any D2+1 roads?
Yes of course, it should be referred to as 'D1+1', if continuing Sabre's usual nomenclature. Compare 'S2+1'. 'D2+1' gives the incorrect impression that it's D2 with an added lane.A320Driver wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 15:24 Going by the nomenclature in another recent thread, shouldn’t it be D1+1? I.e. dual, one-lane carriageways, one of which has an extra lane?
When referring to motorways with 3 lanes in one direction and 4 lanes in the other direction, I usually write D3/4. So the format under discussion here could be 'D1/2'.
An alternative would be 'S2+1 with central barrier' or 'S2+1 with safety barrier', since it's an S2+1 with an added feature (the barrier). The fact that the barrier is narrow, and usually made of wire rather than concrete (New Jersey), favours an S-name rather than a D-name - especially since most instances are upgrades to existing single carriageways, or short lengths on an otherwise-standard S2 or S2+1.
Last edited by Peter Freeman on Sat Jan 08, 2022 06:33, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Why does the UK not have any D2+1 roads?
Surprised no-one mentioned them but they're extremely cycle unfriendly so unless your offering an alternative then they'd never work. I know there's a few bus lanes locally up here that had dividers put in which were removed straight away for the same reason.
Then when your doing all that you've got the space for a dual carriageway anyway.
Then when your doing all that you've got the space for a dual carriageway anyway.
Re: Why does the UK not have any D2+1 roads?
That is what I thought and the hazard in this case would be the fact that traffic in that lane is approaching the end of the relatively short S4 section.
https://www.google.com/maps/@54.8218359 ... a=!3m1!1e3
- JammyDodge
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Re: Why does the UK not have any D2+1 roads?
There is a small stretch of NSL S4 on the A6, south of Carlisle. Although, as you say, quite enough for it to have no issues
Designing Tomorrow, Around the Past
Re: Why does the UK not have any D2+1 roads?
I thought you were going to mention Marton Road, or is it S2+2 because of the white paint down the centre?KeithW wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 18:22I know of some in the North East - here is one to start with
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.58910 ... 8192?hl=en
https://goo.gl/maps/wtD9WHL3vPFrn47B8
Re: Why does the UK not have any D2+1 roads?
It's such penny pinching on roads like this, to save on kerbs usually. These would be ideal locations for some SUDS and/or planting to break up the asphalt ribbons somewhat.Big Nick wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 17:08I thought you were going to mention Marton Road, or is it S2+2 because of the white paint down the centre?KeithW wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 18:22I know of some in the North East - here is one to start with
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.58910 ... 8192?hl=en
https://goo.gl/maps/wtD9WHL3vPFrn47B8
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: Why does the UK not have any D2+1 roads?
Surprised no-one has mentioned the M3 through Thorpe Interchange yet: https://goo.gl/maps/ZV56SMzz3qU5Pya17
To be fair though it's technically D2M+1 not D2+1
To be fair though it's technically D2M+1 not D2+1
Re: Why does the UK not have any D2+1 roads?
Well its not rural or NSL and its just a short section past the hospitals (Roseberry Park and James Cook). There may be 4 lanes but its not used as a typical 4 lane road. the off side lane heading in to town is best avoided as you will almost always get stuck behind someone making a right turn.Big Nick wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 17:08 I thought you were going to mention Marton Road, or is it S2+2 because of the white paint down the centre?
https://goo.gl/maps/wtD9WHL3vPFrn47B8
Re: Why does the UK not have any D2+1 roads?
Not on Marton Road you wouldnt, its carrying 25k of traffic and a lot of it is going in an out of the hospitals. Its horribly overcrowded as it handles both local traffic and outbound traffic for the A174 Parkway, A19, Stokesley, Guisborough and Whitby. The road is pretty much the same as it was in the 1950's but now handles 10 times the volume of traffic. Farther south where it drops to 2 lanes there is some planting and grass verges but since that is the latest development hot spot that wont last.Bryn666 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 19:04It's such penny pinching on roads like this, to save on kerbs usually. These would be ideal locations for some SUDS and/or planting to break up the asphalt ribbons somewhat.Big Nick wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 17:08I thought you were going to mention Marton Road, or is it S2+2 because of the white paint down the centre?KeithW wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 18:22
I know of some in the North East - here is one to start with
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.58910 ... 8192?hl=en
https://goo.gl/maps/wtD9WHL3vPFrn47B8
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.51995 ... 8192?hl=en
Re: Why does the UK not have any D2+1 roads?
How does replacing painted hatching with no turnings as per the link Nick shared with sustainable drainage and planting/landscaping remove any road capacity? It doesn't.KeithW wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 20:57Not on Marton Road you wouldnt, its carrying 25k of traffic and a lot of it is going in an out of the hospitals. Its horribly overcrowded as it handles both local traffic and outbound traffic for the A174 Parkway, A19, Stokesley, Guisborough and Whitby. The road is pretty much the same as it was in the 1950's but now handles 10 times the volume of traffic. Farther south where it drops to 2 lanes there is some planting and grass verges but since that is the latest development hot spot that wont last.Bryn666 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 19:04It's such penny pinching on roads like this, to save on kerbs usually. These would be ideal locations for some SUDS and/or planting to break up the asphalt ribbons somewhat.Big Nick wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 17:08
I thought you were going to mention Marton Road, or is it S2+2 because of the white paint down the centre?
https://goo.gl/maps/wtD9WHL3vPFrn47B8
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.51995 ... 8192?hl=en
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: Why does the UK not have any D2+1 roads?
Given that the road is the main access for 2 hospitals and housing estates where thousands of people live there is a phrase about the cure being worse than the disease that applies here. The ONLY road access to James Cook hospital which is the main hospital south of the Tees and the Regional Trauma Unit is via Marton Road with the exception of the back road from Ladgate Lane via the staff car park.
95% of traffic including ambulances have to turn here.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.55026 ... !1e3?hl=en
If live in Easterside you have to turn here.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.55236 ... 8192?hl=en
Back in the late 1970's and 1980's there was a plan to build a new Middlesbrough bypass along Ormesby Beck here but it was cancelled. They did throw us a token development in the form of a railway halt on the Esk Valley Railway. https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/tees ... ong-973595
Given that I live in Marton just 200m from Marton Road I am rather familiar with the issue. To nobody's surprise the 'solution' described below made little difference.
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/tees ... n-16632375
To make matters worse even more plans for more new housing developments have been submitted.
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/tees ... r-22669692
The Northern end of the bypass was built but has nothing to plug into so just fizzles out at this roundabout.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.56736 ... 8192?hl=en
Re: Why does the UK not have any D2+1 roads?
Neither of which would be affected by Bryn's suggestion about painted hatching in the middle of the road that serves no purpose!KeithW wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:07Given that the road is the main access for 2 hospitals and housing estates where thousands of people live there is a phrase about the cure being worse than the disease that applies here. The ONLY road access to James Cook hospital which is the main hospital south of the Tees and the Regional Trauma Unit is via Marton Road with the exception of the back road from Ladgate Lane via the staff car park.
95% of traffic including ambulances have to turn here.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.55026 ... !1e3?hl=en
If live in Easterside you have to turn here.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.55236 ... 8192?hl=en
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
Re: Why does the UK not have any D2+1 roads?
It serves the precise purpose describe in the Highway Code.
Specifically when the road was widened at the entrance to James Cook Hospital and the pedestrian crossing here added some users, mainly bikers would drive down what they perceived as a middle lane and that try and force their way in to the traffic stream here.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.55054 ... 8192?hl=en
Given that Middlesbrough Council Highways Dept is ALWAYS strapped for cash it was decided that spending money on fixing potholes was better use of its resources than adding planters. As for sustainable drainage that actually runs into Ormesby Beck. In fact there is a major action for this financial year to clear some of the blocked surface drains.
https://www.middlesbrough.gov.uk/enviro ... ood-scheme
Further up the A172 we have had added some planters paid for by the Marton West Community Council.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.53188 ... 8192?hl=en
Re: Why does the UK not have any D2+1 roads?
Given it's a broken line on the striped section, overtaking within it is not forbidden. It might help a little for emergency services access for the nearby hospital. Given its short length, it's really not worth the expense and future maintenance costs. Who knows what runs under the centre of the road? If there's a sewer, planting trees would be a very bad idea.
Re: Why does the UK not have any D2+1 roads?
In fact when the road is at its busiest the hatched area is used by ambulances especially if the air ambulance is busy elsewhere. I dont think there is a sewer down there as that part of Marton Road was semi-rural in the 1950's when it was the main route to the South.nowster wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 12:48 Given it's a broken line on the striped section, overtaking within it is not forbidden. It might help a little for emergency services access for the nearby hospital. Given its short length, it's really not worth the expense and future maintenance costs. Who knows what runs under the centre of the road? If there's a sewer, planting trees would be a very bad idea.
https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/maps/ind ... 15&layer=4
Re: Why does the UK not have any D2+1 roads?
I live near the D2+1 section of the N2 in Castleblayney and I feel that D2+1s are fundamentally flawed.
First of the issues is that one slow vehicle can delay everyone else very easily if it happens to be met on a one lane section. At least on a WS2, there are hard shoulders that slow vehicles can (and usually do) pull into to let others past. Even on narrower roads there tends to be less distance where it is impossible to overtake. I've lost track of how many tractors I've gotten stuck behind on that road.
Similarly, one breakdown can cause the road to get blocked in one direction if it happens on a one lane section (this has already been mentioned). This is a very major issue and one that is only really an issue an a D2+1. (It could be an issue on an S1 but most of those get so little traffic as for it to be a non-issue.) This also extends to verge cutting, where the entire road needs to be closed just for cutting grass. (On most S2s the verge cutting can just be driven around and on S1s they tend to be locals who will reverse into a driveway to let people through.)
In addition, many drivers dangerously overtake very close to the end of the 2 lane section, causing many near misses. I have witnessed many myself on that bit of the N2 (thankfully no actual crashes though) and it was a significant factor to the NRA stopping the construction of D2+1s.
Factors like these are almost certainly reasons why D2+1 roads aren't really a thing in the UK, as they have major drawbacks and are usually not suitable for significant amounts of traffic.
First of the issues is that one slow vehicle can delay everyone else very easily if it happens to be met on a one lane section. At least on a WS2, there are hard shoulders that slow vehicles can (and usually do) pull into to let others past. Even on narrower roads there tends to be less distance where it is impossible to overtake. I've lost track of how many tractors I've gotten stuck behind on that road.
Similarly, one breakdown can cause the road to get blocked in one direction if it happens on a one lane section (this has already been mentioned). This is a very major issue and one that is only really an issue an a D2+1. (It could be an issue on an S1 but most of those get so little traffic as for it to be a non-issue.) This also extends to verge cutting, where the entire road needs to be closed just for cutting grass. (On most S2s the verge cutting can just be driven around and on S1s they tend to be locals who will reverse into a driveway to let people through.)
In addition, many drivers dangerously overtake very close to the end of the 2 lane section, causing many near misses. I have witnessed many myself on that bit of the N2 (thankfully no actual crashes though) and it was a significant factor to the NRA stopping the construction of D2+1s.
Factors like these are almost certainly reasons why D2+1 roads aren't really a thing in the UK, as they have major drawbacks and are usually not suitable for significant amounts of traffic.
it/he/they | aka computerfan0
My travelled roads can be found here.
My travelled roads can be found here.