Road shut as a "rat runs" but named after where they go.

The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.

There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).

Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.

Moderator: Site Management Team

User avatar
KeithW
Member
Posts: 19205
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 13:25
Location: Marton-In-Cleveland North Yorks

Re: Road shut as a

Post by KeithW »

chaseracer wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:38
Mark Hewitt wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 07:12 A lot of these aren't rat runs but have been closed to traffic. Eg Northumberland Street in Newcastle a very busy shopping street and of course so named as it's the way to get to Northumberland and was the A1 when numbers were first allocated.
Still open to some traffic when I was a student in the 80s!
Another example is the High Street in Huntingdon which before when the Huntingdon Viaduct opened had been the route of the A14 to Alconbury.

Many of the major roads in Middlesbrough were pedestrianised after the A66 was built providing a northern bypass. Much the same happened in Stockton-On-Tees following the re routing of the A19 over the Tees Viaduct. One of the more extreme examples was Ashford In Kent where the infamous ring road was removed after the
M20 completion.
http://www.alexandrapatrick.co.uk/wp/wp ... roject.pdf
viewtopic.php?t=29661
baroudeur
Member
Posts: 202
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 15:34

Re: Road shut as a "rat runs" but named after where they go.

Post by baroudeur »

KeithW wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 15:21
baroudeur wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 14:44
KeithW wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 09:42
Bedford Road at the Black cat is one example, the modern route to Bedford is the A421 southern bypass.
In Cambridge you have Huntingdon Road no bypassed by the M11
Although there is no indication at the Black Cat roundabout that the road to which you refer is named Bedford Road so no help to strangers and little use - as a rat run - to locals heading to Bedford

Unless of course you recall when it was the A421 to Bedford, as I do, or heaven forfend look at a map :)

In reality I dont see anyone using it as a rat run, the new A421 is MUCH faster. It can however be thought of as one of the roads that is useful in extremis. On my many journeys between Oxford and Cambridge I have used many routes to get home when all went wrong, There was one occasion when a multiple accident on the A421 had traffic backed up all the way from Cardington to the A1 when I ended up using the Barford Road to Tempsford and picked up the A428 at Little Barford
I used it many years before the A421 bypass was built and still use it regularly visiting family.

Your memory of the accident avoidance route seems strange if you were heading west! :?
User avatar
KeithW
Member
Posts: 19205
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 13:25
Location: Marton-In-Cleveland North Yorks

Re: Road shut as a "rat runs" but named after where they go.

Post by KeithW »

baroudeur wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 13:38
KeithW wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 15:21 In reality I dont see anyone using it as a rat run, the new A421 is MUCH faster. It can however be thought of as one of the roads that is useful in extremis. On my many journeys between Oxford and Cambridge I have used many routes to get home when all went wrong, There was one occasion when a multiple accident on the A421 had traffic backed up all the way from Cardington to the A1 when I ended up using the Barford Road to Tempsford and picked up the A428 at Little Barford
I used it many years before the A421 bypass was built and still use it regularly visiting family.

Your memory of the accident avoidance route seems strange if you were heading west! :?
Fortunately heading for Cambridge after spending all day in a meeting at Harwell meant heading east :)
User avatar
hoagy_ytfc
Member
Posts: 632
Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 00:10

Re: Road shut as a "rat runs" but named after where they go.

Post by hoagy_ytfc »

RichardA35 wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 07:23 But the road in the GSV link isn't closed.

Wot? I road is only "closed" if it's barricaded to pedestrians? A moat and barbed wire, perhaps? Maybe a mine field?
User avatar
RichardA35
Committee Member
Posts: 5705
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2002 18:58
Location: Dorset

Re: Road shut as a "rat runs" but named after where they go.

Post by RichardA35 »

hoagy_ytfc wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 00:29
RichardA35 wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 07:23 But the road in the GSV link isn't closed.

Wot? I road is only "closed" if it's barricaded to pedestrians? A moat and barbed wire, perhaps? Maybe a mine field?
As this is a "roads" forum and this is a fairly basic concept in highway law, it is unhelpful to turn to hyperbole and to view the issue solely from the viewpoint of drivers of motor vehicles.
There is plenty of information available on the internet to help discern the difference between the orders for traffic regulation and stopping up.
User avatar
trickstat
Member
Posts: 8738
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 14:06
Location: Letchworth Gdn City, Herts

Re: Road shut as a "rat runs" but named after where they go.

Post by trickstat »

hoagy_ytfc wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 00:29
RichardA35 wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 07:23 But the road in the GSV link isn't closed.

Wot? I road is only "closed" if it's barricaded to pedestrians? A moat and barbed wire, perhaps? Maybe a mine field?
As far as I can see, no actual named road has been closed. It is the link between 2 roads for motorised vehicles that has been closed.
User avatar
Chris5156
Deputy Treasurer
Posts: 16908
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2001 21:50
Location: Hampshire
Contact:

Re: Road shut as a "rat runs" but named after where they go.

Post by Chris5156 »

hoagy_ytfc wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 00:29
RichardA35 wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 07:23 But the road in the GSV link isn't closed.
Wot? I road is only "closed" if it's barricaded to pedestrians? A moat and barbed wire, perhaps? Maybe a mine field?
Well, yes. If you build a wall across it so that nobody can pass by any means, the road has been closed, or "stopped up" in legal terms. If you can still get through somehow, then it's not fully closed, it's just closed to certain classes of traffic. That might not be the way people would describe it in everyday speech but it is true.
User avatar
KeithW
Member
Posts: 19205
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 13:25
Location: Marton-In-Cleveland North Yorks

Re: Road shut as a "rat runs" but named after where they go.

Post by KeithW »

hoagy_ytfc wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 00:29
RichardA35 wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 07:23 But the road in the GSV link isn't closed.

Wot? I road is only "closed" if it's barricaded to pedestrians? A moat and barbed wire, perhaps? Maybe a mine field?
Rendered impassable is the usual definition and doing so is a major task in legal terms see:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... f-highways

When the M6/A14 Catthorpe junction was rebuilt this extinguished existing pedestrian rights of way and to mitigate this the Highways Agency as it then was were required to provide a new bridleway to replace them. The same happened with the new A14 where number of bridges were provided over the new road to provide access for non motorised traffic.

There are several types of roads, in addition to normal highways there are byways. A byway open to all (BOAT) is open to all classes of traffic but restricted byways are typically only open to pedestrians (footpath) or pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders (bridle way).

County Councils are required to maintain a definitive map showing all rights of way.
pjr10th
Member
Posts: 194
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 23:35

Re: Road shut as a "rat runs" but named after where they go.

Post by pjr10th »

WHBM wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:37
Bryn666 wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:12
Good luck getting to London from this London Road. It runs north eastwards in Blackburn.
London Street in Edinburgh is an obscure back street, still partly cobbled. It's next to Dublin Street. Neither of course being named after where they go.
Yes, this Windsor Road has been closed for vehicles, but since it's on an island I wouldn't except to find Windsor at either end:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/ubNYtSdFuBVYwe3u9

Though if we're saying all roads should take you to whatever they name, I think you'll find me driving down this one in Norwich:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/8FtNwWm1AoxJLrMS8
User avatar
skiddaw05
Member
Posts: 2036
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 21:33
Location: Norwich

Re: Road shut as a "rat runs" but named after where they go.

Post by skiddaw05 »

pjr10th wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:46 Though if we're saying all roads should take you to whatever they name, I think you'll find me driving down this one in Norwich:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/8FtNwWm1AoxJLrMS8
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.60118 ... 312!8i6656
:)
jnty
Member
Posts: 1727
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2021 00:12

Re: Road shut as a "rat runs" but named after where they go.

Post by jnty »

skiddaw05 wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:57
pjr10th wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:46 Though if we're saying all roads should take you to whatever they name, I think you'll find me driving down this one in Norwich:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/8FtNwWm1AoxJLrMS8
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.60118 ... 312!8i6656
:)
A few Edinburgh New Town streets mentioned already, but particularly at this time of the year this one certainly appeals.
User avatar
KeithW
Member
Posts: 19205
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 13:25
Location: Marton-In-Cleveland North Yorks

Re: Road shut as a "rat runs" but named after where they go.

Post by KeithW »

Time to go nuclear :)

I give you Whip-Ma-Whop-Ma-Gate, York.
https://yorkcivictrust.wpengine.com/wp- ... 80x585.jpg

Now that's what I call a rat run.
User avatar
trickstat
Member
Posts: 8738
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 14:06
Location: Letchworth Gdn City, Herts

Re: Road shut as a "rat runs" but named after where they go.

Post by trickstat »

pjr10th wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:46
WHBM wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:37
Bryn666 wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:12
Good luck getting to London from this London Road. It runs north eastwards in Blackburn.
London Street in Edinburgh is an obscure back street, still partly cobbled. It's next to Dublin Street. Neither of course being named after where they go.
Yes, this Windsor Road has been closed for vehicles, but since it's on an island I wouldn't except to find Windsor at either end:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/ubNYtSdFuBVYwe3u9

Though if we're saying all roads should take you to whatever they name, I think you'll find me driving down this one in Norwich:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/8FtNwWm1AoxJLrMS8
Meatloaf may have claimed that Paradise could be found by the dashboard light. It can actually be found in Hemel Hempstead:

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.7488922 ... 384!8i8192
WHBM
Member
Posts: 9707
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 18:01
Location: London

Re: Road shut as a "rat runs" but named after where they go.

Post by WHBM »

KeithW wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 13:12
I give you Whip-Ma-Whop-Ma-Gate, York.

Now that's what I call a rat run.
This one in Bristol is particularly relevant for a Rat Run

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4553406 ... 312!8i6656
baroudeur
Member
Posts: 202
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 15:34

Re: Road shut as a "rat runs" but named after where they go.

Post by baroudeur »

KeithW wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 13:58
baroudeur wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 13:38
KeithW wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 15:21 In reality I dont see anyone using it as a rat run, the new A421 is MUCH faster. It can however be thought of as one of the roads that is useful in extremis. On my many journeys between Oxford and Cambridge I have used many routes to get home when all went wrong, There was one occasion when a multiple accident on the A421 had traffic backed up all the way from Cardington to the A1 when I ended up using the Barford Road to Tempsford and picked up the A428 at Little Barford
I used it many years before the A421 bypass was built and still use it regularly visiting family.

Your memory of the accident avoidance route seems strange if you were heading west! :?
Fortunately heading for Cambridge after spending all day in a meeting at Harwell meant heading east :)
Ah! Traffic backed up all the way to Cardington from the A1 :wink:
User avatar
KeithW
Member
Posts: 19205
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 13:25
Location: Marton-In-Cleveland North Yorks

Re: Road shut as a "rat runs" but named after where they go.

Post by KeithW »

baroudeur wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 17:39
KeithW wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 13:58
baroudeur wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 13:38

I used it many years before the A421 bypass was built and still use it regularly visiting family.

Your memory of the accident avoidance route seems strange if you were heading west! :?
Fortunately heading for Cambridge after spending all day in a meeting at Harwell meant heading east :)
Ah! Traffic backed up all the way to Cardington from the A1 :wink:
To be precise what I posted was
the A421 had traffic backed up all the way from Cardington to the A1
A quick look at the map will show the A1 is north east of Cardington. Given that at the time I was making the round trip once a week it was not something I would be likely to get wrong.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/51.58 ... !3e0?hl=en
Glenn A
Member
Posts: 9776
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 19:31
Location: Cumbria

Re: Road shut as a "rat runs" but named after where they go.

Post by Glenn A »

Liverpool St in London faces the wrong way to go to Liverpool and the Liverpool St station serves East Anglia, not the North West. If you were to use Liverpool St station to get to Liverpool, apart from having to buy seperate tickets as it is nowhere near a direct route to the city, you'd need to catch a train to Stansted Airport, then another to Birmingham New St for Liverpool.
User avatar
KeithW
Member
Posts: 19205
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 13:25
Location: Marton-In-Cleveland North Yorks

Re: Road shut as a "rat runs" but named after where they go.

Post by KeithW »

Glenn A wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 13:09 Liverpool St in London faces the wrong way to go to Liverpool and the Liverpool St station serves East Anglia, not the North West. If you were to use Liverpool St station to get to Liverpool, apart from having to buy seperate tickets as it is nowhere near a direct route to the city, you'd need to catch a train to Stansted Airport, then another to Birmingham New St for Liverpool.
Liverpool Street was I believe named after Lord Liverpool who was Prime Minister between 1812 and 1827.
Glenn A
Member
Posts: 9776
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 19:31
Location: Cumbria

Re: Road shut as a "rat runs" but named after where they go.

Post by Glenn A »

KeithW wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 16:49
Glenn A wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 13:09 Liverpool St in London faces the wrong way to go to Liverpool and the Liverpool St station serves East Anglia, not the North West. If you were to use Liverpool St station to get to Liverpool, apart from having to buy seperate tickets as it is nowhere near a direct route to the city, you'd need to catch a train to Stansted Airport, then another to Birmingham New St for Liverpool.
Liverpool Street was I believe named after Lord Liverpool who was Prime Minister between 1812 and 1827.
I wondered if this was the case, although naming it Lord Liverpool St would be more obvious.
User avatar
KeithW
Member
Posts: 19205
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 13:25
Location: Marton-In-Cleveland North Yorks

Re: Road shut as a "rat runs" but named after where they go.

Post by KeithW »

Street names don't typically get the honorific. In Middlesbrough Albert Road was named in honour of Prince Albert and Victoria Street after the Queen. Similarly in Southsea Palmerston Road was name after Lord Palmerston.
Post Reply