New Mersey Crossing

[Comstock]

The sweetener should be that once the infrastructure costs are paid off the tolls end.

I'll believe that when I see it
.

Me too. I don't know if I've mentioned this before but I'm just about old enough to have been a guided tour of the Humber Bridge just after it opened. I was only very young but I can clearly remember the guide saying something similar about the tolls stopping when the bridge was paid for. He gave some date in the nineties which seemed ridiculously futuristic at the time.

[Stevie D]

The sweetener should be that once the infrastructure costs are paid off the tolls end.

We've heard that line before. Why should we believe it this time round?

[Stevie D]

Me too. I don't know if I've mentioned this before but I'm just about old enough to have been a guided tour of the Humber Bridge just after it opened. I was only very young but I can clearly remember the guide saying something similar about the tolls stopping when the bridge was paid for. He gave some date in the nineties which seemed ridiculously futuristic at the time.

I don't think the Humber Bridge has cleared its debts (although I'm happy to be corrected on that). The traffic forecasts when it was being planned were hopelessly over-optimistic, and the business case for the bridge was partly predicated on it being a way to unify the failing dream of Humberside. Of course, that didn't happen – Humberside fell by the wayside and the expected traffic levels never materialised.

[Bryn666]

The sweetener should be that once the infrastructure costs are paid off the tolls end.

We've heard that line before. Why should we believe it this time round?

The should wasn't a believing one... it was a it should happen but we know it won't.

[wrinkly]

Me too. I don't know if I've mentioned this before but I'm just about old enough to have been a guided tour of the Humber Bridge just after it opened. I was only very young but I can clearly remember the guide saying something similar about the tolls stopping when the bridge was paid for. He gave some date in the nineties which seemed ridiculously futuristic at the time.

I don't think the Humber Bridge has cleared its debts (although I'm happy to be corrected on that). The traffic forecasts when it was being planned were hopelessly over-optimistic, and the business case for the bridge was partly predicated on it being a way to unify the failing dream of Humberside. Of course, that didn't happen – Humberside fell by the wayside and the expected traffic levels never materialised.

I think for a long time the Humber Bridge's debts increased, not decreased. I'm not sure if that's still happening.

[PeterA5145]

I don't think the Humber Bridge has cleared its debts (although I'm happy to be corrected on that). The traffic forecasts when it was being planned were hopelessly over-optimistic, and the business case for the bridge was partly predicated on it being a way to unify the failing dream of Humberside. Of course, that didn't happen – Humberside fell by the wayside and the expected traffic levels never materialised.

I think it's the Dartford Crossing that has cleared its debts, but the tolls continue regardless

[Glen]

I was only very young but I can clearly remember the guide saying something similar about the tolls stopping when the bridge was paid for. He gave some date in the nineties which seemed ridiculously futuristic at the time.

From reports of a refinancing in 2015, the Humber Bridge debt is due to be paid off by 2038.

For the tolls to end when the debt is cleared the Humber Bridge Board would either need to be wound up and the road trunked (like has happened to FETA) or paid a grant to cover running costs from local or national government (like the current arrangements with the TRBJB).

[Glen]

I think it's the Dartford Crossing that has cleared its debts, but the tolls continue regardless

Dartford ceased to be a toll several years ago and is now a road charging scheme.

[Stevie D]

I think it's the Dartford Crossing that has cleared its debts, but the tolls continue regardless

Yes, at the time when the debts were cleared (I think around 2007 or 2008?), the tolls didn't just continue but were increased, something like doubled.

[Glen]

Yes, at the time when the debts were cleared (I think around 2007 or 2008?), the tolls didn't just continue but were increased, something like doubled.

Dartford hasn't had a toll since 2003 when it was replaced by a road charging regime, which is basically just a tax on using a specific road.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002 ... tents/made

[Stevie D]

Dartford hasn't had a toll since 2003 when it was replaced by a road charging regime, which is basically just a tax on using a specific road.

So apart from some nitpicking pettifogging legal details, what is the difference between a toll road/bridge/tunnel and a road charging regime?

[Glen]

A toll is to pay off a construction debt and/or the running costs of the infrastructure. A road charge is just a charge to use a road for the sake of charging.

[wrinkly]

Bridge to open late on Friday night.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-me ... e-41582616

[Bryn666]

Bridge to open late on Friday night.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-me ... e-41582616

Can't wait. Genuinely. This bridge has been needed for years.

[Big L]

I went for a 'last drive' over the old bridge on Monday. I've never needed to drive over it, and don't imagine I will ever need to go over either again.

[Fenlander]

My wife’s been over the bridge twice, on both occasions because she was lost, she thought she was still in Liverpool! She lives t’other side of the country now but I bet she’ll still manage a trip over the new one on one of her visits home for some reason.

[fras]

A couple of weeks ago we used the New Queensway Crossing, so as this new bridge is only up the road, we'll have a trip out to, and over, it. (thinks - must remember to pay the toll !!)

[wrinkly]

A couple of weeks ago we used the New Queensway Crossing, so as this new bridge is only up the road, we'll have a trip out to, and over, it. (thinks - must remember to pay the toll !!)

Queensway is the original Mersey Tunnel - or do you mean Queensferry?

(Not to be confused with the Queensferry near Chester!)

[Nicholas]

The bridge is the Silver Jubilee Bridge, the road it carries is Queensway.

[fras]

A couple of weeks ago we used the New Queensway Crossing, so as this new bridge is only up the road, we'll have a trip out to, and over, it. (thinks - must remember to pay the toll !!)

Queensway is the original Mersey Tunnel - or do you mean Queensferry?

(Not to be confused with the Queensferry near Chester!)

The late hour when I posted this !! Yes, we did indeed cross the new Queensferry Bridge !