New Mersey Crossing
Moderator: Site Management Team
Re: New Mersey Crossing
I had the opportunity of looking at what they're doing to the Silver Jubilee Bridge today whilst passing it on the adjacent railway bridge. I must say it seems odd there's no traffic using it. Whereas it's still open to pedestrians I didn't see any.
At the moment there are several of those works portacabins sitting on the bridge and there are men up in the rigging presumably figuring out what to do with it. It doesn't appear that they've started to do anything with the roadway yet, except on the Widnes side where they've removed the central barrier of the dual carriageway. It's still early days I guess.
At the moment there are several of those works portacabins sitting on the bridge and there are men up in the rigging presumably figuring out what to do with it. It doesn't appear that they've started to do anything with the roadway yet, except on the Widnes side where they've removed the central barrier of the dual carriageway. It's still early days I guess.
"If you expect nothing from somebody you are never disappointed." - Sylvia Plath
- Glen
- Social Media Admin
- Posts: 5426
- Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 02:16
- Location: Inbhir Pheofharain
- Contact:
Re: New Mersey Crossing
Most tolls aren't operated by central government.Berk wrote: However, not all tolls are government run. What about the Humber Bridge, for example??
Only the Dartford and Severn crossings and the M6 Toll are accountable to the DfT/Highways England. And they are run as PFI concessions.
All the other tolled crossings are run by local authorities, joint boards or PTEs.
Re: New Mersey Crossing
They could easily be 4m wide by 7m tall. Sounds pretty much house-sized to me, although I appreciate the perspective you get as you drive past means they don't actually look that big.Berk wrote:“Signs as big as houses”, Kindersley said. They are big, but not massive. And impossible to see at all if a lorry is cruising past in lane 1. Though I accept you’ll have passed at least one or two other “C-Charge” signs.Bryn666 wrote:300mm x-height, so motorway sized, and also 2 miles before the last exit before the toll. We've done this topic to death before, if you can't see these signs then stop driving.Berk wrote:I think the ‘giant’ signs being alluded to are no bigger than your normal information or ADS sign - large enough to see, but not until you get close.
Still plenty big enough to see though, unless you're blind.
"Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty."
- some extreme-right nutcase
1973-2007 Never forgotten
- some extreme-right nutcase
1973-2007 Never forgotten
- RichardA35
- Committee Member
- Posts: 5705
- Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2002 18:58
- Location: Dorset
Re: New Mersey Crossing
At Dartford, the Area 5 DBFO Co is paid a service charge to collect the charge for HM Govt as the PFI for the new crossing finished when the construction debt was paid off.Glen wrote:Most tolls aren't operated by central government.Berk wrote: However, not all tolls are government run. What about the Humber Bridge, for example??
Only the Dartford and Severn crossings and the M6 Toll are accountable to the DfT/Highways England. And they are run as PFI concessions.
All the other tolled crossings are run by local authorities, joint boards or PTEs.
Re: New Mersey Crossing
It isn't during the day. They decided it was too risky and there is a free bus instead.vlad wrote: I must say it seems odd there's no traffic using it. Whereas it's still open to pedestrians I didn't see any.
Re: New Mersey Crossing
On another thread:
I'm bored of hearing how £2 a day, which residents of Halton don't have to pay anyway, is pricing people out of jobs. As ever there is no evidence, just hyperbole.
We have had a major recession since 2008 that had a massive knock on traffic. It only reached the 2007 peak about 3 years ago, so traffic growth has been nowhere near what people thought it would be 11 years ago.Bendo wrote:So almost 10k a day down on the 80k+ / day figure Halton council had from 2008 which I expect would have grown a fair bit. Once the novelty wears off and people have been priced out of their jobs, it will feel even more deserted.
I'm bored of hearing how £2 a day, which residents of Halton don't have to pay anyway, is pricing people out of jobs. As ever there is no evidence, just hyperbole.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: New Mersey Crossing
Maybe, but shouting from the rooftops that you've already issued 50,000 Penalty Charge Notices for non-payment doesn't help the situation. All traffic over a tolled road or bridge consists of two classes of traffic, those who have to go that way, and those who have a choice. I suspect that the toll and the quite severe penalty for non-payment, (about 30 times the toll) puts people off going that way, so they go somewhere else. This can be shopping or other leisure activities. Yes, it is easy to pay for people like us but there is a large body of people who are not up-to-speed on this modern stuff so they disappear almost overnight and thus destroy the economics of the bridge. It makes other shopping destinations more attractive, and there are plenty around that location.Bryn666 wrote:On another thread:
We have had a major recession since 2008 that had a massive knock on traffic. It only reached the 2007 peak about 3 years ago, so traffic growth has been nowhere near what people thought it would be 11 years ago.Bendo wrote:So almost 10k a day down on the 80k+ / day figure Halton council had from 2008 which I expect would have grown a fair bit. Once the novelty wears off and people have been priced out of their jobs, it will feel even more deserted.
I'm bored of hearing how £2 a day, which residents of Halton don't have to pay anyway, is pricing people out of jobs. As ever there is no evidence, just hyperbole.
Of course I should have added that if you go up the motorway on the Wirral and use the tunnels instead, you can still pay cash and therefore have certainty and peace of mind. We ignore this psychological stuff at our peril.
Re: New Mersey Crossing
^^I find this to be a not very convincing argument, at least I think only people older than 50 would be inconvenienced. Probably really only over 60, if I’m honest.
Re: New Mersey Crossing
Noone is forcing you to read it.Bryn666 wrote:On another thread:
We have had a major recession since 2008 that had a massive knock on traffic. It only reached the 2007 peak about 3 years ago, so traffic growth has been nowhere near what people thought it would be 11 years ago.Bendo wrote:So almost 10k a day down on the 80k+ / day figure Halton council had from 2008 which I expect would have grown a fair bit. Once the novelty wears off and people have been priced out of their jobs, it will feel even more deserted.
I'm bored of hearing how £2 a day, which residents of Halton don't have to pay anyway, is pricing people out of jobs. As ever there is no evidence, just hyperbole.
Oh and in their justification for the bridge Halton Council put the figures at just under 90K a day so there had been growth.
- RichardA35
- Committee Member
- Posts: 5705
- Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2002 18:58
- Location: Dorset
Re: New Mersey Crossing
There is only one category. All drivers make the choice to use the bridge or not.fras wrote:Maybe, but shouting from the rooftops that you've already issued 50,000 Penalty Charge Notices for non-payment doesn't help the situation. All traffic over a tolled road or bridge consists of two classes of traffic, those who have to go that way, and those who have a choice. I suspect that the toll and the quite severe penalty for non-payment, (about 30 times the toll) puts people off going that way, so they go somewhere else. This can be shopping or other leisure activities. Yes, it is easy to pay for people like us but there is a large body of people who are not up-to-speed on this modern stuff so they disappear almost overnight and thus destroy the economics of the bridge. It makes other shopping destinations more attractive, and there are plenty around that location.Bryn666 wrote:On another thread:
We have had a major recession since 2008 that had a massive knock on traffic. It only reached the 2007 peak about 3 years ago, so traffic growth has been nowhere near what people thought it would be 11 years ago.Bendo wrote:So almost 10k a day down on the 80k+ / day figure Halton council had from 2008 which I expect would have grown a fair bit. Once the novelty wears off and people have been priced out of their jobs, it will feel even more deserted.
I'm bored of hearing how £2 a day, which residents of Halton don't have to pay anyway, is pricing people out of jobs. As ever there is no evidence, just hyperbole.
Of course I should have added that if you go up the motorway on the Wirral and use the tunnels instead, you can still pay cash and therefore have certainty and peace of mind. We ignore this psychological stuff at our peril.
Re: New Mersey Crossing
I find it amusing that those who "are being priced off the roads" think a Northern season ticket will be cheaper than paying the toll too. Good luck with that.
Additionally if you're confused by online toll payment heaven help you trying to navigate a railway station ticket machine.
"Noone is forcing you to read it."
Funnily enough no one is forcing you to use a toll bridge either. Last I heard we had the freedom to change jobs and move house if a toll bridge is such a terrible imposition.
Additionally if you're confused by online toll payment heaven help you trying to navigate a railway station ticket machine.
"Noone is forcing you to read it."
Funnily enough no one is forcing you to use a toll bridge either. Last I heard we had the freedom to change jobs and move house if a toll bridge is such a terrible imposition.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: New Mersey Crossing
We're generally poor at advance signing of toll routes. For example the A57 in Lincolnshire is not signed as being tolled on advance signage, eg. from the A1.
-
- Member
- Posts: 1359
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:44
- Location: Cheshire, but working week time in Cambridge
Re: New Mersey Crossing
Hey, steady on with this "ageist abuse"! I'd vote for at least 62!!Berk wrote:^^I find this to be a not very convincing argument, at least I think only people older than 50 would be inconvenienced. Probably really only over 60, if I’m honest.
Mike Hindson-Evans.
Never argue with a conspiracy theorist.
They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Never argue with a conspiracy theorist.
They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
- andrewwoods
- Member
- Posts: 509
- Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 16:23
- Location: Poole
Re: New Mersey Crossing
There is a debate today in Westminster Hall on the subject "Tolls on the Mersey Crossings".
It's live here
Andrew
It's live here
Andrew
- roadtester
- Member
- Posts: 31476
- Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 18:05
- Location: Cambridgeshire
Re: New Mersey Crossing
Went across this for the first time today.
I have to say I was very impressed!
I have to say I was very impressed!
Electrophorus Electricus
Check out #davidsdailycar on Mastodon
Check out #davidsdailycar on Mastodon
Re: New Mersey Crossing
We went to Bent's Garden Centre before Christmas, so I decided on a little detour. I paid for two crossings thinking we might have time to go both ways, but we only went one way, so in theory, I have £2 ready for another crossing. The new bridge is very impressive, but the roundabout to get onto it at the south end of the A557 involves a very tight LH turn, plus one has to be in the LH lane, but this is not made clear at all. The other thing is that everybody says the signs about a toll are very clear. Well to me they aren't and, FWIW, most people may see the sign and expect to see a toll-booth. I would think 99% of people in this area have used the Mersey tunnels which have booths and expect the same here.I would say almost nobody will have used the Dartford Crossing so one can understand why so many PCNs have been issued. Frankly, I think it is pretty poor do just dumping this new system on people. There should have been a period in which warnings were issued, but I suppose the greed of the authorities overrides all ethical considerations.
- Johnathan404
- Member
- Posts: 11478
- Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 16:54
Re: New Mersey Crossing
What better warning period is there than a solid year of people moaning about the idea of going online to pay the new toll?fras wrote:Frankly, I think it is pretty poor do just dumping this new system on people. There should have been a period in which warnings were issued, but I suppose the greed of the authorities overrides all ethical considerations.
I have websites about: motorway services | Fareham
- RichardA35
- Committee Member
- Posts: 5705
- Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2002 18:58
- Location: Dorset
Re: New Mersey Crossing
Motorists choose to go via a route that has a charge, they need to find out how to pay which is written on line and on signs at and before the point of charge.fras wrote:We went to Bent's Garden Centre before Christmas, so I decided on a little detour. I paid for two crossings thinking we might have time to go both ways, but we only went one way, so in theory, I have £2 ready for another crossing. The new bridge is very impressive, but the roundabout to get onto it at the south end of the A557 involves a very tight LH turn, plus one has to be in the LH lane, but this is not made clear at all. The other thing is that everybody says the signs about a toll are very clear. Well to me they aren't and, FWIW, most people may see the sign and expect to see a toll-booth. I would think 99% of people in this area have used the Mersey tunnels which have booths and expect the same here.I would say almost nobody will have used the Dartford Crossing so one can understand why so many PCNs have been issued. Frankly, I think it is pretty poor do just dumping this new system on people. There should have been a period in which warnings were issued, but I suppose the greed of the authorities overrides all ethical considerations.
How much simpler can it be? Or do motorists need a nanny state explaining everything to them in the simplest terms?
Re: New Mersey Crossing
Only most motorists... don’t seem to think that way.RichardA35 wrote:Motorists choose to go via a route that has a charge, they need to find out how to pay which is written on line and on signs at and before the point of charge.fras wrote:We went to Bent's Garden Centre before Christmas, so I decided on a little detour. I paid for two crossings thinking we might have time to go both ways, but we only went one way, so in theory, I have £2 ready for another crossing. The new bridge is very impressive, but the roundabout to get onto it at the south end of the A557 involves a very tight LH turn, plus one has to be in the LH lane, but this is not made clear at all. The other thing is that everybody says the signs about a toll are very clear. Well to me they aren't and, FWIW, most people may see the sign and expect to see a toll-booth. I would think 99% of people in this area have used the Mersey tunnels which have booths and expect the same here.I would say almost nobody will have used the Dartford Crossing so one can understand why so many PCNs have been issued. Frankly, I think it is pretty poor do just dumping this new system on people. There should have been a period in which warnings were issued, but I suppose the greed of the authorities overrides all ethical considerations.
How much simpler can it be? Or do motorists need a nanny state explaining everything to them in the simplest terms?
(I agree with you, BTW. It’s the first thing I would check before setting off.)