Oldest "future-proofing" that never got used

[Conekicker]

Doncaster
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.52806 ... 8192?hl=en

[Bryn666]

This bridge (1971) was intended for a future Bolton Outer Ring Road: https://goo.gl/maps/c3MywKVwUfPPtVz58 and likewise St Peters Way itself is designed with a wide central reservation for future widening to D3 but is very unlikely to be used - the intention was to extend the route northwards out of Bolton towards Blackburn.

That's news to me. I've never noticed the extra carriageway under that bridge before. How would the outer ring have interacted with St Peters Way? The existing northbound entry slip would have to close as there's currently nowhere for the eastbound carriageway under the bridge to go.

It was very sketchy - the only line of this route I've ever seen was in the SELNEC plan. The slip roads would have had to be extensively redone regardless and the presence of what was then Burnden Park was always going to cause an issue. File under "pipe dream" I think.

[wrinkly]

This bridge (1971) was intended for a future Bolton Outer Ring Road: https://goo.gl/maps/c3MywKVwUfPPtVz58

I think the Bolton ring road proposal was already old when St Peter's Way was built, but I don't know how the junction would have been. It has been mentioned on here before.

https://goo.gl/maps/Vrx2UPgoCT2e9fdD7 1969 stump for Prospect Hill Interchange (https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/ind ... nterchange)

There was also a stub from the northbound M61 west of the M6, but most evidence was removed when the M6 was widened to 4 lanes north from here, with realignment of the northbound M61 and replacement of Cottage Brow overbridge.

There are no doubt a lot of pre-WW2 examples in suburbs of numerous towns and cities.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Eas ... d-2.172283

[jervi]

Not sure of the history of it but this one on the A27 at Crossbush is quite striking.

That's only 30ish years old, so relatively new.

Depending on what is counted as "future-proofing", what about the B2036 between Cuckfield and Crawley? The highway boundary was widened to allow for an early D2 arrangement during the 30s or 40s, but the war likely stopped the dualing from ever happening. Maybe the B2036 route was going to become the "Trunk London-Brighton Route" Then the A23 would be moved onto its alignment. However works in the 50s & 60s took place on the existing A23 alignment, and the B2036 has never been revisited since other than small improvements such as just north of Balcombe.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.04423 ... 384!8i8192
viewtopic.php?t=42192 was discussed in this thread.

Likewise when the M23 (and related A2011) was built in the 70s, both bridges over the B2036 were built for the B2036 to be dualled, however that has not happened either.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.13235 ... 384!8i8192

[JohnnyMo]

I raise you with this GSJ from the mid 50's -- A602 South Stevenage

From GSV they look too low to be bridges for a GSJ. Were they not intended as NMU subways, similar to those at the roundabouts either side?

Why I disagree is if you see this view. Maybe a limited height underpass, similar to this one

PS what does NMU stand for?

[JohnnyMo]

Quite a few new town roads have space to be dualled. See Warrington on roads.org.uk for some examples.

If you are including where just space was left rather than a physical thing, such as a bridge or a ramp. Then I am sure there are plenty such as this and the other side which were intended for a tramway along the A505 to Hitchin.

[jackal]

I raise you with this GSJ from the mid 50's -- A602 South Stevenage

From GSV they look too low to be bridges for a GSJ. Were they not intended as NMU subways, similar to those at the roundabouts either side?

Why I disagree is if you see this view. Maybe a limited height underpass, similar to this one

PS what does NMU stand for?

Looks low even for restricted height, and very steep for a GSJ.

NMU is non-motorised user.

[Bryn666]

From GSV they look too low to be bridges for a GSJ. Were they not intended as NMU subways, similar to those at the roundabouts either side?

Why I disagree is if you see this view. Maybe a limited height underpass, similar to this one

PS what does NMU stand for?

Looks low even for restricted height, and very steep for a GSJ.

NMU is non-motorised user.

France says hello: https://goo.gl/maps/Ht1bm4LHJ3paEZCE9 - this was built in 2009!

[jackal]

Why I disagree is if you see this view. Maybe a limited height underpass, similar to this one

PS what does NMU stand for?

Looks low even for restricted height, and very steep for a GSJ.

NMU is non-motorised user.

France says hello: https://goo.gl/maps/Ht1bm4LHJ3paEZCE9 - this was built in 2009!

2.6m apparently... so the same as a subway

[JohnnyMo]

From GSV they look too low to be bridges for a GSJ. Were they not intended as NMU subways, similar to those at the roundabouts either side?

Why I disagree is if you see this view. Maybe a limited height underpass, similar to this one

PS what does NMU stand for?

Looks low even for restricted height, and very steep for a GSJ.

NMU is non-motorised user.

this one should have been here (2.8m height restriction) as for steep

[jackal]

Crikey!

[quantinghome]

There must be loads of inter-war suburban roads which were designed with space to dual but were never widened.

I wonder if there are any examples of unused future-proofing during the turnpike era?

[Bryn666]

Looks low even for restricted height, and very steep for a GSJ.

NMU is non-motorised user.

France says hello: https://goo.gl/maps/Ht1bm4LHJ3paEZCE9 - this was built in 2009!

2.6m apparently... so the same as a subway

These are all over France - they have no qualms about them. They used to have extensive Meccano style autoponts too but old age has seen the back of most of those.

Here's a very long (2.7km to be precise) one in Nice with headroom of just 2.3m so definitely cars only: https://goo.gl/maps/AxyAUryrJ2C22Aoj8

[jnty]

France says hello: https://goo.gl/maps/Ht1bm4LHJ3paEZCE9 - this was built in 2009!

2.6m apparently... so the same as a subway

These are all over France - they have no qualms about them. They used to have extensive Meccano style autoponts too but old age has seen the back of most of those.

Here's a very long (2.7km to be precise) one in Nice with headroom of just 2.3m so definitely cars only: https://goo.gl/maps/AxyAUryrJ2C22Aoj8

Can we perhaps deduce from your two examples that the GSV car is somewhere between 2.3-2.6 metres high?!

[JohnnyMo]

There must be loads of inter-war suburban roads which were designed with space to dual but were never widened.

I wonder if there are any examples of unused future-proofing during the turnpike era?

More like a planned but unbuilt bypass turnpike. I don't thing there would be much need for future-proofing during the turnpike era.

[trickstat]

I raise you with this GSJ from the mid 50's -- A602 South Stevenage

Isn't that a change of plan, rather than future proofing? I was told once that it was to do with having events in the park opposite the football stadium. No idea if that is true

The original plan was for a grid road from here via what is now Fairlands Park to Martins Way.

Also this "dual carriageway" was meant to be Monkswood Way. Which is why Elder Way starts here. What was planned would be something like this

My Dad went door to door collecting signatures against the road being built. Having grown up with the park just a few minutes' walk away I'm glad it wasn't built.

[M4Simon]

I raise you with this GSJ from the mid 50's -- A602 South Stevenage

From GSV they look too low to be bridges for a GSJ. Were they not intended as NMU subways, similar to those at the roundabouts either side?

Why I disagree is if you see this view. Maybe a limited height underpass, similar to this one

PS what does NMU stand for?

As far as I know it was for cycles, but given its position on the road, it was hardly safe provision for cyclists. I vaguely remember colleagues working on the Stevenage redundant roundabout project, which was this one - once upon a time you could u-turn here, or turn onto the field. That would be over 20 years ago. I think it was done at the same time as other roundabouts had a concrete barrier put around the centre island to protect the drop to the cycle path below, for example https://goo.gl/maps/ggY1HjYt8NWkmPPg8 . Much cheaper to take out the roundabout than to protect the drop down to poorly connected cycle infrastructure.

Looks low even for restricted height, and very steep for a GSJ.

Stevenage doesn't worry too much about steep roads at GSJs. https://goo.gl/maps/Pyu9FPenk6BSpPuQ7

Simon

[JohnnyMo]

From GSV they look too low to be bridges for a GSJ. Were they not intended as NMU subways, similar to those at the roundabouts either side?

Why I disagree is if you see this view. Maybe a limited height underpass, similar to this one

PS what does NMU stand for?

As far as I know it was for cycles, but given its position on the road, it was hardly safe provision for cyclists. I vaguely remember colleagues working on the Stevenage redundant roundabout project, which was this one - once upon a time you could u-turn here, or turn onto the field. That would be over 20 years ago. I think it was done at the same time as other roundabouts had a concrete barrier put around the centre island to protect the drop to the cycle path below, for example https://goo.gl/maps/ggY1HjYt8NWkmPPg8 . Much cheaper to take out the roundabout than to protect the drop down to poorly connected cycle infrastructure.

Looks low even for restricted height, and very steep for a GSJ.

Stevenage doesn't worry too much about steep roads at GSJs. https://goo.gl/maps/Pyu9FPenk6BSpPuQ7

Simon

IIRC that was never connected to the cycleway which runs along the south side of the road There is no sign of a bridge .

My point is the bridges are in the wrong place and too wide to be part of the cycleway

[IAN]

This was built some time ago 40'/50's? The plan was to link Quinton Road and Quinton Road West across the Woodgate valley with the completed road being D2. The link never happened and here we can see where the underused D2 reduces to S2 with space for D2 to continue.

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4477329 ... 384!8i8192

See what's in the way? Harborne Golf Club. Golf clubs are very skilled and successful at defending their territory against road schemes. They have powerful and influential members who can pull the right strings.

You are no doubt correct, private golf clubs will have plenty of rich and influential members. A few miles down the road from Harborne the excellent Brandhall municipal golf course ( where I played regularly in my youth) is going to be built on.

[Chris Bertram]

This was built some time ago 40'/50's? The plan was to link Quinton Road and Quinton Road West across the Woodgate valley with the completed road being D2. The link never happened and here we can see where the underused D2 reduces to S2 with space for D2 to continue.

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4477329 ... 384!8i8192

See what's in the way? Harborne Golf Club. Golf clubs are very skilled and successful at defending their territory against road schemes. They have powerful and influential members who can pull the right strings.

You are no doubt correct, private golf clubs will have plenty of rich and influential members. A few miles down the road from Harborne the excellent Brandhall municipal golf course ( where I played regularly in my youth) is going to be built on.

That'll be Sandwell MBC, but a couple of decades or so ago Birmingham's municipal course at Harborne Church Farm was also under threat. Locals campaigned and it was saved, but I suspect that the local people around Brandhall may not be the campaigning, activist types that Harborne has in strength.